GMOs and GRAS - Saga 2 - time for the re-education of America

[Thekla]

Hope y'all don't mind a non-Christian posting but I find this discussion very interesting especially as of late where I think I am starting to react quite negatively against some substances in foods and I am not sure what is causing it from preservatives to genetically modified foods.

I also find it really scary that so many big agriculture firms engineer seeds that do not reproduce at all so they can license out their product. Talk about holding the world's food supply up for ransom....

Welcome

and agreed.

 

[Thekla]

Just found out about this and thought that it needed to be shared - as it concerns the full extent of abuse:

The ruminal cannual - permanent access to a cow's stomach to analyse the feed process to maximise meat and milk production. Beyond repulsive and heartbreaking.

One can go here and here for more information.


At universities they use it to to easily check digestive fluids and bacteria in different parts of the stomach. Some veterinary groups do it to diagnose digestive issues in cows (they can test without having to poke or do surgery every single time the test is needed). It basically prevents the need for multiple pokes if multiple tests are going to be needed or done. The ports can also be used to put antibiotics directly into the part of the stomach needed, rather than risking wiping out the entire bacteria colony for all 4 sections of the stomach.

Any other cases, I don't know. I prefer the academia side of biology. I don't condone this for anything that isn't needed for the cow really. And in academia where it is used for research (which food is digested the best, and whatnot), I know that very strict standards are used, and as few animals (usually just 1) are used as possible. But to clarify quickly, I know what this is supposed to be used for. But unless those cows are sick that are lined up with them, I don't know what they are being used for in those situations.

Maria Regina:
Sadly, genetically altered babies are already here:
Report: First Genetically Altered Babies - ABC News

"So far, two of the babies have been tested and have been found to contain genes from three ‘parents’."
World's First Genetically-Modified Babies Born, Or Were They? | LifeNews.com

How this will effect future generations we can't know.

I did research on this Saint Barnabas Hospital in New Jersey and it supposedly has no religious affiliation.

Just to add, this happened probably between 1997 and 2001.

I stay clear of GMO's too. I am so glad to hear that the Patriarch spoke against it. Sadly, I don't think the Pope has.

Horrifying ...

I've posted this before, but think it would be appropriate to repost:
http://billmoyers.com/segment/vandana-shiva-on-the-problem-with-genetically-modified-seeds/

 

[Dorothea]

It shocked me, to be honest..although some, of course, will say "It's just animals - not people - so why are you protesting?!"

As soon as I looked at your pictures, I was sorry I did. I have to scroll past them because it makes me so sad and sick and upset.

 

[Zoness]

If you think those are bad you should see some of the stuff about lobotomizing animals simply to breed out their meat in massive farms.

Mind you, we are running out of alternatives. The world's population is growing out of control and there is a finite supply of food and we all know America is an extreme over consumer. Too bad the American mentality will never change.

Still, if only food production was more democratic like in the past. What happens in the event of a nationwide disaster? We get price gouged for food because nobody can even grow their own gardens anymore. Gardens, in my opinion, are a major first step in getting away from all of this nonsense and eating healthier. Something we all [myself especially] could all afford to do.

 

[pgp_protector]

If you think those are bad you should see some of the stuff about lobotomizing animals simply to breed out their meat in massive farms.

Mind you, we are running out of alternatives. The world's population is growing out of control and there is a finite supply of food and we all know America is an extreme over consumer. Too bad the American mentality will never change.

Still, if only food production was more democratic like in the past. What happens in the event of a nationwide disaster? We get price gouged for food because nobody can even grow their own gardens anymore. Gardens, in my opinion, are a major first step in getting away from all of this nonsense and eating healthier. Something we all [myself especially] could all afford to do.

Given all the home gardening equipment, seeds, books, web sites, ect I see. Why do you say that Nobody can even grow their own gardens anymore?

 

[Thekla]

Given all the home gardening equipment, seeds, books, web sites, ect I see. Why do you say that Nobody can even grow their own gardens anymore?

Patents are an increasing problem in seed supply (for large scale farming), and their reliance on proprietary treatments (and peculiar needs for soil ammendments); but also, folks in the city are less able to grow enough food to make up the difference. There has been experimentation in vertical gardening - promising and beautiful. But light and space continue to present a challenge for many city gardeners.

 

[pgp_protector]

Patents are an increasing problem in seed supply (for large scale farming), and their reliance on proprietary treatments (and peculiar needs for soil ammendments); but also, folks in the city are less able to grow enough food to make up the difference. There has been experimentation in vertical gardening - promising and beautiful. But light and space continue to present a challenge for many city gardeners.

Yes, but the Poster I Quoted stated that "nobody can even grow their own gardens anymore. ", not that it's hard, or less able to grow, but that They Can't grown their own. That's what I'm questioning.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Horrifying ...

That's an understatement...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If you think those are bad you should see some of the stuff about lobotomizing animals simply to breed out their meat in massive farms..

Do you have any resources on the issue that could be investigated? That's a unfortunate event indeed what they're doing - and HIGHLY inhumane..

Mind you, we are running out of alternatives. The world's population is growing out of control and there is a finite supply of food and we all know America is an extreme over consumer. Too bad the American mentality will never change.

To over-consume and have no concern of the consequences on people or nature is just as evil as choosing to murder. But we don't see what we do as holding a gun and so we think it's not violent..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

As soon as I looked at your pictures, I was sorry I did. I have to scroll past them because it makes me so sad and sick and upset.

Were you able to check out the video refernece I hyper-linked to that gave discussion on how others were protesting? Sorry to see, by the way, that the images were intense - as I have that with some things in factory farming when certain images I tend to not even look at because they're too much for me to handle and it grieves me too much to go through it fully.

Glad to know that mourning the rape of the natural world is not something that believers have to see as a fluke or an error in values if you take it seriously. I had it before where noting the issue was responded to quickly with "Why is it the case folks will mourn over the loss of animals or their abuse and yet you'll not hear anyone say anything about babies being aborted ?" - as if you can't do both somehow.

 

[Dorothea]

Just wanted to say I've heard many times about over population, but it's a wide-spread myth according to the author of Ultimate Things - and some other Orthodox Christians.

 

[Zoness]

Do you have any resources on the issue that could be investigated? That's a unfortunate event indeed what they're doing - and HIGHLY inhumane..
To over-consume and have no concern of the consequences on people or nature is just as evil as choosing to murder. But we don't see what we do as holding a gun and so we think it's not violent..

Sure, here is something I found offhand: Could A Brain-Dead Chicken 'Matrix' Solve Ethical Issues Of Factory Farming? (PHOTOS)

I agree. Especially since population dynamics of any species indicates that those who grow too rapidly out of control always have a massive die-off. Especially in the western world, we must really consider how sustainable our "living" habits are otherwise we really jeopardize coming generations.

Just wanted to say I've heard many times about over population, but it's a wide-spread myth according to the author of Ultimate Things - and some other Orthodox Christians.

Just because a specific author said something does not make it so. It's quite easily observable. Look at the world's current population. Look at growth rates in the poorest part of the world and additionally look at water consumption, stress and availability in relation to those populations as well as food supplies relative to the amount of arable land of high density population areas. The current models works because in the West we have not tapped out fresh water, our most sensitive resource quite yet. Once we start seeing true water stress in the United States and Europe, the domino affect it will have on world food prices as commodities will be extensive and terrifying to people and the marketplace destabilizing prices in other areas as well as production.

I'd love to discuss this subject further but I don't want to be deleted for derailing. However, supply and demand in the free market economy is related to all of these practices in the first place; that is how we got here.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That headless chicken thing, pure, unfiltered, all-out brutality. Disgusting! Not a day goes by where I don't thank God I'm a vegetarian...brutal.

Sure, here is something I found offhand: Could A Brain-Dead Chicken 'Matrix' Solve Ethical Issues Of Factory Farming? (PHOTOS)

I agree. Especially since population dynamics of any species indicates that those who grow too rapidly out of control always have a massive die-off. Especially in the western world, we must really consider how sustainable our "living" habits are otherwise we really jeopardize coming generations.



Just because a specific author said something does not make it so. It's quite easily observable. Look at the world's current population. Look at growth rates in the poorest part of the world and additionally look at water consumption, stress and availability in relation to those populations as well as food supplies relative to the amount of arable land of high density population areas. The current models works because in the West we have not tapped out fresh water, our most sensitive resource quite yet. Once we start seeing true water stress in the United States and Europe, the domino affect it will have on world food prices as commodities will be extensive and terrifying to people and the marketplace destabilizing prices in other areas as well as production.

I'd love to discuss this subject further but I don't want to be deleted for derailing. However, supply and demand in the free market economy is related to all of these practices in the first place; that is how we got here.

 

[MKJ]

Just wanted to say I've heard many times about over population, but it's a wide-spread myth according to the author of Ultimate Things - and some other Orthodox Christians.

I have heard this from Catholic sources as well.

I haven't really been impressed by the ones I have seen, and not necessarily because I think we are overpopulated.

But they seem to be making an argument that we can't have over-population, because God wants us to "be fruitful and multiply", or that God wouldn't let us really harm the Earth seriously. A very similar approach to those who say we can't really harm the environment because God wouldn't allow it.

I think we absolutely can choose to do things that harm the environment, or other people, and that might include having so many babies that we damage the earth in some sense. Multiply doesn't necessarily mean go out and have more kids than your local area can support, or that you can care for yourself. And we live in a fallen world, where nature isn't limitless and can become disordered and where our own desire to consume or procreate is almost limitless.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This, absolutely....

I have heard this from Catholic sources as well.

I haven't really been impressed by the ones I have seen, and not necessarily because I think we are overpopulated.

But they seem to be making an argument that we can't have over-population, because God wants us to "be fruitful and multiply", or that God wouldn't let us really harm the Earth seriously. A very similar approach to those who say we can't really harm the environment because God wouldn't allow it.

I think we absolutely can choose to do things that harm the environment, or other people, and that might include having so many babies that we damage the earth in some sense. Multiply doesn't necessarily mean go out and have more kids than your local area can support, or that you can care for yourself. And we live in a fallen world, where nature isn't limitless and can become disordered and where our own desire to consume or procreate is almost limitless.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Sure, here is something I found offhand: Could A Brain-Dead Chicken 'Matrix' Solve Ethical Issues Of Factory Farming? (PHOTOS)

That's tragic that they did such...

 

[Dorothea]

I have heard this from Catholic sources as well.

I haven't really been impressed by the ones I have seen, and not necessarily because I think we are overpopulated.

But they seem to be making an argument that we can't have over-population, because God wants us to "be fruitful and multiply", or that God wouldn't let us really harm the Earth seriously. A very similar approach to those who say we can't really harm the environment because God wouldn't allow it.

I think we absolutely can choose to do things that harm the environment, or other people, and that might include having so many babies that we damage the earth in some sense. Multiply doesn't necessarily mean go out and have more kids than your local area can support, or that you can care for yourself. And we live in a fallen world, where nature isn't limitless and can become disordered and where our own desire to consume or procreate is almost limitless.

That wasn't the subject matter the author was referring to. The author was just writing what the Saints had to say on man filling the place of the fallen angels in heaven. That part was about abortion and other such man-made evil/catastrophes (wars, famine, etc.)that are causing the deaths of so many, which is believed to be the doing of the enemy so that it gives him a longer time to cause havoc and terrible things to the souls of people. This way, the numbers of souls in heaven are not multiplied because of these types of things by the evil one, causing the time for Christ's return to not be yet.

 

[MKJ]

That was the subject matter the author was referring to. The author was just writing what the Saints had to say on man filling the place of the fallen angels in heaven. That part was about abortion and other such man-made evil/catastrophes (wars, famine, etc.)that are causing the deaths of so many, which is believed to be the doing of the enemy so that it gives him a longer time to cause havoc and terrible things to the souls of people. This way, the numbers of souls in heaven are not multiplied because of these types of things by the evil one, causing the time for Christ's return to not be yet.

I am not sure I am following - is he saying that if we finally produced enough souls to make up for the fallen angels, the world would end - since the world has not ended, we can conclude that we have not produced too many people.

 

[Dorothea]

I am not sure I am following - is he saying that if we finally produced enough souls to make up for the fallen angels, the world would end - since the world has not ended, we can conclude that we have not produced too many people.

It's not about producing or having enough bodies on earth in that sense, but enough faithful souls.