Gentiles 101

Stryder06

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Thanks for posting OntheDL


I see this as respected commentary I can find some points from, some see this as scriptures and inspired truth from a prophet.

From my understand of what Jesus said about the ministry of the Comforter, and the gospel He commisioned to be preached. I find it questionable that any messenger would bring any other word than from Him who now sits on the throne, "Jesus".
God has set in the church "first apostles" because the message sent is salvation is through knowledge of Jesus Christ. The ministry of the prophets of Old was as mediator between God and man, now that He has come, the prophets voice does not lead or control the church of God. The gift of Jesus Christ, is the answer to all that will be saved. The views of the prophets should not change God's last message to the word.
Hbr 1:1¶God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Text says that God used to speak in many ways in the past through prophets, but in the last days by Jesus Christ.

Who did Jesus send to teach doctrines to the church?
I'm just saying....

Crib, would you say that John the apostle had a prophetic ministry?

What is the covenant relationship these watchmen entered with God?
If I had to guess "I will be their God and they shall be My people".
 
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Stryder06

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Within the 27fun beliefs are two statements that seem to legitimized the mission of other denominations.


Why is so much said in SDA about the church at large but many SDA members seem to create a void between the church and Adventism?
I don't see the SDA creating a void between "the church" and Adventism. It is our stance that every person living up to the light given them by God is part of the true church. Our seperation had to do with apostate protestantism. Those who are ignoring the light given by God so that they can continue on in their traditions. And no I can't say who those individuals are. I'm just making a general statement.

it's stated that a remnant was called out from the church..Does that mean that the church failed or no longer God's people?
I'd assume you're speaking about belief #13. The remnant is called called out from those who join in to the great apostasy. This isn't a one time occassion but a gradual movement within the church.

God is a covenant God. The New Covenant is sealed with the blood of Jesus Christ. Did God abbandon His covenant?
Is the adoption as His Children invalidate by not joining the SDA church?
Again, all those who follow Christ are part of His family. The thing is that not everyone saying that they are Christian are recognized as such by God.

Is God the author of this devison??
Nope. Satan is. The one thing about being deceived is that usually you don't know you're deceived. And I don't mean you as in "Crib". I'm just making about general statement.
 
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Cribstyl

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Crib, would you say that John the apostle had a prophetic ministry?
I guess by me saying yes, more than one lightbulb comes on.:doh: I hate it when that happens.

If I had to guess "I will be their God and they shall be My people".
Are you saying that there are other covenant between God and man outside the scriptures?
 
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Stryder06

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I guess by me saying yes, more than one lightbulb comes on.:doh: I hate it when that happens.
Not sure what you're saying here. I was just asking what you thought about John since it seems you don't think the gift of prophecy extended beyond the time of Christ.

Are you saying that there are other covenant between God and man outside the scriptures?
I'm saying that she was using the term "covenant" loosely. She was trying to explain how God has always had a people everywhere at every time. And to those people God became their God and they became His people.
 
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Cribstyl

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Not sure what you're saying here. I was just asking what you thought about John since it seems you don't think the gift of prophecy extended beyond the time of Christ.
I don't compare bible prophets with 18,19 century prophets. But yes, I do believe there are prophets today. In my understanding they are make themselves accountable to a bishop (apostle) or a church. The scriptures teaches that God has set in place in the church first apostles, and secondarily prophets... WHY? The gospel of Jesus Christ "the good new" is God's eternal plan of salvation. Prophecies are given and be fulfilled in specific timing. They can warn of things to come, but does not come before the gospel.

The prophecy we need to heed from the apostles are these among others; certain issue are not authorized doctrines........

1Ti 4:1¶Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6¶If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1Ti 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself [rather] unto godliness.

I'm just saying...
 
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Stryder06

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I don't compare bible prophets with 18,19 century prophets. But yes, I do believe there are prophets today. In my understanding they are make themselves accountable to a bishop (apostle) or a church. The scriptures teaches that God has set in place in the church first apostles, and secondarily prophets... WHY? The gospel of Jesus Christ "the good new" is God's eternal plan of salvation. Prophecies are given and be fulfilled in specific timing. They can warn of things to come, but does not come before the gospel.

I would think that Apostles are first as they are the ones who go out to teach others who don't know God. Prophecy is to edify the church. Prophesying to someone who doesn't know God won't do much good. And a prophet is only a prophet if they are called by God. The century in which they are called is irrelevant. And I wouldn't say that prophecies come before the gospels. I see prophecy as part of the gospel in that it helps to establish the word of God. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus according to the angel in Revelation. That sounds like good news to me.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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I would think that Apostles are first as they are the ones who go out to teach others who don't know God. Prophecy is to edify the church. Prophesying to someone who doesn't know God won't do much good. And a prophet is only a prophet if they are called by God. The century in which they are called is irrelevant. And I wouldn't say that prophecies come before the gospels. I see prophecy as part of the gospel in that it helps to establish the word of God. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus according to the angel in Revelation. That sounds like good news to me.
Are post-canonical prophets authoritative IF their prophecy contradicts the canon?

BFA
 
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Cribstyl

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IF it did, then yes it would. Are we going to gnaw on the "Sr White's prophecies contradict the bible" bone again?
Bf1's question seem quite reasonable, but you're jumping to make a counter attack. The question is : If a prophet's prophecy contradict the scripture is it authorative? The question is who's word should we follow about future events? The answer is : THE BIBLE
 
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Stryder06

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Bf1's question seem quite reasonable, but you're jumping to make a counter attack. The question is : If a prophet's prophecy contradict the scripture is it authorative? The question is who's word should we follow about future events? The answer is : THE BIBLE

I agree 100% The Bible is the word by which we ought to live our lives, and if a prophecy is contrary to the bible then there's a problem with the prophet.

I however wasn't jumping to make any counter attack. I was just preempting the inevitable "Well what about when Sr White said XYZ" response.
 
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Cribstyl

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I agree 100% The Bible is the word by which we ought to live our lives, and if a prophecy is contrary to the bible then there's a problem with the prophet.

I however wasn't jumping to make any counter attack. I was just preempting the inevitable "Well what about when Sr White said XYZ" response.
If EGW say xyz and it's become new doctrines, then we should be able to examine God's word to see where new doctrines or covenant will be changed.
What's da matta you?
Prophets do not lead in the church...the gospel leads.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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If EGW say xyz and it's become new doctrines, then we should be able to examine God's word to see where new doctrines or covenant will be changed.
What's da matta you?
Prophets do not lead in the church...the gospel leads.

God has always spoken through His prophets/messengers to reveal new light for His people... the question isn't whether the prophet says something different that has already been established but if what the prophet is revealing harmonizes with the teaching of the Bible... there is nothing wrong with new light, as long as it doesn't contradict established Biblical truth. Notice I didn't say Biblical understanding... that is subject to change as God opens to us more light.
 
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Cribstyl

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God has always spoken through His prophets/messengers to reveal new light for His people... the question isn't whether the prophet says something different that has already been established but if what the prophet is revealing harmonizes with the teaching of the Bible... there is nothing wrong with new light, as long as it doesn't contradict established Biblical truth. Notice I didn't say Biblical understanding... that is subject to change as God opens to us more light.
We cant dumb down God's word. The scriptures say: Hbr 1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.

According to the OT books God spoke to His chosen people through the prophets. (Genesis-Malachi)

Hbr 1:2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The big question are, after Jesus died #1.Who is being sent to the world. and #2."What is the message from God?

The spirit leading false religion says: We now have authority over the church. God speaks only through us.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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We cant dumb down God's word. The scriptures say: Hbr 1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets.

According to the OT books God spoke to His chosen people through the prophets. (Genesis-Malachi)

Hbr 1:2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The big question are, after Jesus died #1.Who is being sent to the world. and #2."What is the message from God?

The spirit leading false religion says: We now have authority over the church. God speaks only through us.

Obviously you do not believe that God will speak through men again... you keep pointing out that prophets were an OT thing... I can't convince you against your own mind.
 
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Stryder06

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If EGW say xyz and it's become new doctrines, then we should be able to examine God's word to see where new doctrines or covenant will be changed.
What's da matta you?
Prophets do not lead in the church...the gospel leads.

What is "new doctrine"?

And prophets never lead the church. They typically brought correction to God's people as a result of said people straying from the word of God.
 
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Cribstyl

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Obviously you do not believe that God will speak through men again... you keep pointing out that prophets were an OT thing... I can't convince you against your own mind.
That's far from what I said ECR and you know it.

If anything I presented scriptures of how God communicated with man in time past,(through Prophet) follow by how God operates in the last days. (through Jesus)

We should not take the scriptures lightly that God has given Him all rule, all power and all authority over the church.
We should not take the scriptures lightly that God has made Him King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
We should not take the scriptures lightly that when Jesus announced His church as yet to be built, would NOT be the same Jewish synagogues teaching the Law and the Prophets, being led by Pharisees and the Levitical system of worship.
Jesus first sent the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit to be here till the end, so no church can claim vacancy in the Godhead.
Jesus appeared to Paul to teach Gentiles what God requires of them. What prophet can we name, who was given doctrines on how Christians should worship? Jesus did not give that work to prophets.
Jesus sent Paul to teach the churches everywhere the doctrines of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. so no prophets we can name was commisioned to teach doctrines to the church.

No prophets from God come without being in subjection to any authority, putting the works of the cross on the back burner and preaching the law.
That would erase what God has given to us through His grace, which is righteousness by faith and subject us to righteousness by keeping the law, which is of work.


Thanks for your ears.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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That's far from what I said ECR and you know it.

If I knew different Crib, I wouldn't have said it... it's what I was discerning from what you wrote.

Thanx for trying to clarify it further...
 
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stinsonmarri

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Crib:


My friend here is the true lesson of Gentiles 101: Yes you are correct that words and terminology in the bible offers much wisdom to understanding undeniable truths as laid out in Elohim word. However here is the problem this word was used by the translators for bias purposes. Unfortunately Indo-Europeans were racist and during the early 1600 Jews and Afrikans were not accepted as part of the saved race like them. One accuse of killing Yashua the others pagans, ape like and not worthy of salvation only slavery.


These attitudes persisted in Christian preaching, art and popular teaching of contempt for Jews over the centuries. In many Christian countries, it led to civil and political discrimination against Jews, legal disabilities, and in some instances to physical attacks on Jews which occasionally ended in emigration, expulsion, and even death.


All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. Then, as now, Jews have to be reminded intermittently that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live."Christianity and anti-Semitism: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I want to make it clear that all Christians including popes and others in the Catholic Church did have mercy on the Jews but not the major population especially the Anglo-Saxon!

Thus many of the Jewish rabbis and the early Christian fathers linked Ham's descendents with dark skin, the mark of Noah's curse. We have statements to this effect from Origen (c. 185-254), Augustine (354-430) and Ambrose of Milan (339-397.) The curse on Canaan, which probably referred to the Middle Eastern political situation in the 10th century BC, was now interpreted by some as a perpetual curse on Ham's descendents.

By the late 1600s, the curse of Ham was well entrenched as divine sanction for slavery. In colonial America, the belief that Ham was black, and that Noah's curse was race-related, was widely subscribed to in both the North and South. From the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board: What's up with the biblical story of drunken Noah? (Part 2)


Well what does the word "Gentiles" in Hebrews actually mean:

IT is unfortunate that most people have so many mistaken ideas about their religion, due largely to the many mistranslations of words in the commonly-used King James Version of the Bible. One of these mistaken ideas is that most of the people of the United States and Western Europe - in fact, nearly all the Christians in the world - are “Gentiles”. You hear many of them - even clergymen, who should know better - say, “I’m just a Gentile, saved by grace.” I think it is high time that we learned something about one of the most mis-used words, “Gentile.”
The word “Gentile” is not even once used in any Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament, for the good reason that there is no such word in Hebrew, nor any word which corresponds to it. Everywhere you find the word “Gentile” used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word “GOY,” which means “NATION.”The plural form of it is “GOYIM.” Since it means “nation,” why didn’t they translate it correctly? Sometimes they did; but for the most part, they translated it to fit the official doctrines of the church of their day, no matter what violence that did to the true meaning of the word. The church hierarchy had long since determined what its doctrines should be: and if the Bible didn’t agree with them, so much the worse for the Bible. Men were still being burned at the stake for heresy, in those days, and “heresy” meant any religious idea which differed from the official doctrines proclaimed by the bishops. So the translators did the best the Church would allow them to do. Let us take some examples.
. . .Again, in John 11:50, we find that the Jewish High Priest, Caiaphas, was plotting with the chief priests and Pharisees, to murder Jesus Christ; and Caiaphas told them, “it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and that the whole ETHNOS perish not.” Nothing could have pleased this evil Jew more than for all the Gentiles to perish - using the word “Gentile” as we do today. Therefore, the translators had to translate “ETHNOS” correctly, as “nation.” Yet in many other places they mistranslate it “Gentile.”Dr. Bertrand Comparet: THE ENSIGN MESSAGE

Now I notice that there is one Scripture Gen 10:5 that you and the above writer seem to overlooked so I will let all read it and see that Elohim only mention this group of people as Gentile so speak but the word is still incorrect and the correct word should be Greek speaking people. Shall we look:


By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.



Now to prove my point notice the word Gentiles is used and the word nations so should this say isles of the nation in their nations of course not let's look at some more evidence:

These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations. Gen 10:20


These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. Gen 10:31

For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles (Heathen nations). Isa 66:18 -19


Now here are the facts on Elisha the son of Javan (known as the father of the Greeks, and Romans and related to Europe) was specifically called Ethos or Greek speaking people in Gen 5:10 and the other two texts dealing with both Ham and Shem was not. Then to show consistency Yahweh call that all nations and tongues will see His glory and told history that Israel would be scatter among these nations Tarshish (Spain), Pul (regions in Afrika), Lud (Afro-Asiatic regions), Tubal (Russia), Javan again (Greeks and Ionians), and finally Isles (coastland or regions not yet heard of) and the truth of His Commandments will be taught by the faithful true Jews.


Also let me correct one false misunderstanding Canaan and his children was given the special privilege of being Yahweh's chosen first and yes he was a black brother:

And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. In the same day YAHWEH made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. Gen 15:13-16, 18-21

But Elohim came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Yahweh, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. And Elohim said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. Gen 20:3-6

Finally, I specifically used a racist White Supremacist to prove that what he wrote in this sense it correct and accurate as to the true meaning of the word "Gentile," except in Gen 5:10 it meant Greek speaking people related to Javan the Father of the Greeks and Ionians! Well that the end of Gentile 101 and more!


Blessings,
stinsonmarri
 
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Cribstyl

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@stinsonmarri



Reponding to #139




End of Gentile101?


The original idea of this thread was to walk through some scriptures together. (#35).... First what the OT claim as Gentiles from the scriptures.

The facts are: #1. The word " "nation" is initially and primarily used to denote the ansestry of Noah as they were seperated by nationality to repopulate the earth. it was God who first prophesied about all future nations and their boundaries. Gen 10:5(Gen 10,11) true or false?

#2. It's seem clear in scriptures that it was God who did chose Abraham to become a great nation Gen 12:2 and that all other nations would eventually be blessed through his seed Jesus.



It's the scriptures that proves how God seperated Abraham from his father (and his father's God) to make Him a great nation. This is when when God first choses a people to be their God, who would become His chosen people in Egypt. (lets research the facts together)

I'll skip posting from history, by not adding more confusion to this response.
I'll just fast-forward to fulfillment of God's prophetic word about the"nations" in Genesis.
These text below proves that God did not give other nations His the promises, covenants and laws. This does not mean that all nations would not be recepients of the promise given to Abraham as prophesied.


Rom 9:4 and context (Rom 9:3-5)
Eph 2:11-22


In conclussion; Trying to tell people who know they're not of Jewish decent, that God have commanded them to be under a certain covenant, of which scrpitures prove they were aliens and strangers to, is misleading and just wrong.

The prophetic word about the restoration of the Children of Israel is a sign of the times to prove that only God can say what will come to pass.
The eneny wants to confuse that word and get us to believe lies instead.


The fact that both Jews and Gentiles are to be adopted by God, only through faith in Jesus Christ, grafts us into the same tree.

In love
:cool:CRIB
 
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