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Gentiles 101

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by Cribstyl, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Actually, the interpreters of Geneva as well as the King James, used transcripts of greek and hebrew origin, much of which had been previously translated by Tyndale. There was, no doubt, influence from the early copies but the dead sea scrolls, has shown us that from what has been compared, the version we have today is correct to the original.

    Also, if you do a deep study of the timelines of the major reformatory movements in the Bible, they line up perfectly with each other. Something that could not have happened if a mortal had compiled it or tampered with it in any significant way. From a cursory look through of the Bible, nothing may seem special about it, but trust me, no one could have written this intricate of a puzzle without divine aid.
     
  2. Argy Lacedom

    Argy Lacedom Member

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    That hardly addresses my point at all. Constantine is responsible for the bible as read by believers today. For some reason you accept that he had authority to coble together the books that define Christianity but do not accept his authority regarding the sabbath.

    Bear in mind, also, that many gospels were omitted from the collection - the gospels of Thomas and Judas, for example.

    AL
     
  3. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Can you show me that Constantine compiled the transcripts that Tyndale used? I've never heard that contention before.

    Yes there were other supposed writings from the apostles and other OT writers but they were evaluated by the translators in the 16th century and deemed to either not authentic or not beneficial. Don't forget, that we believe the Holy Spirit was directing the early translators and that God ensured His Word was sufficiently preserved.
     
  4. Argy Lacedom

    Argy Lacedom Member

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    Tyndale??? 16th century? Are you serious? The biblical canon was fixed in the fourth century by Constantine and his bishops. Tyndale's only claim to fame is that he translated a few biblical texts from the canon that had already been determined. He most certainly was not responsible for collecting them into the canon.

    Constantine is responsible for setting in motion the process that determined what books were to be included and what books were to be excluded from the bible. You will be aware that 2 Tim 3:16 says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". Constantine and his bishops determined what this scripture was to be. They are also responsible for moving the Sabbath to Sunday.

    If you accept the authority of Constantine to determine the current biblical canon then you should have no trouble accepting his authority when it comes to the Sabbath.

    AL
     
  5. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Well, I would appreciate some reference but in any case, don't you think that it was God that directed/guided Constantine to compile what he did. There are lots of Biblical references of God using unbelievers to accomplish His work
     
  6. Argy Lacedom

    Argy Lacedom Member

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    Do you seriously think that he would have guided Constantine and his bishops in assembling the scriptures and determining which ones were worthy of inspiration of God, profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and yet lead him and his bishops astray when it came to the Sabbath?

    My contention is that if you reject the authority of Constantine and his bishops to determine the Sabbath then you reject their authority to determine the canon, and hence the scripture, that you hold to be divinely inspired.

    [PS I'm surprised you do not understand how the bible was assembled from the various religious texts that were around at the time. I suggest you google for the Council of Nicea.]

    AL
     
  7. Ivan25

    Ivan25 Newbie

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    Romans 14:1-23

    Accept the person who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.
    One person believes that he can eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
    The person who eats must not despise the person who does not eat, and the person who does not eat must not criticize the person who eats, for God has accepted him.
    Who are you to criticize someone else’s servant? His own Lord will determine whether he stands or falls. And stand he will, because God is able to make him stand
    One person decides that one day is better than another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
    The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God.
    For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
    If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
    For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.
    Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.
    For it is written, “As certainly as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praiseGod.”
    Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
    Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
    I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean.
    For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat.
    Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil.
    For God’s kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.
    For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.
    Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up.
    Do not destroy God’s work for the sake of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong to make another person fall because of what you eat.
    The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble or become upset or weak.
    As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves!
    But the person who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not act in faith. And anything that is not done in faith is sin.

    ECR I have to ask which is more important to you: being a Christian or an Adventists?
     
  8. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    :amen:

    Good job Ivan25:thumbsup:
     
  9. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Commentary have to contradict what Paul teaches here is Rom 14. Clearly Paul is addressing primarily a Gentile congregation about the practices of other Christians who are believers.
    These scriptures makes it clear that any day or days taken to honor God is between a man and God. To condemn a man for what day or days He worships on is contrary to the doctrine of faith.

    Truth is, keeping the sabbath day is giving honor to God according to faith, it says that He is the creator. Noone should condemn a man for that.
    Truth is, keeping the resurrection day is giving honor to God. Who would dare silence a worship celebration that " JESUS IS OUR CREATOR?"
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2011
  10. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    It is not for me to condemn but God only...

    I agree with what you have said above Crib, however, the problem seems to be that Sunday keepers don't also keep Holy the Sabbath. One was explicitly commanded and taught, the other wasn't.
     
  11. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    The most important thing to me is to honour and obey my God and to strive to His character through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    I consider myself a child of God... I follow the historic Adventist teachings because I believe them to be true.
     
  12. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    By posting the 4th commandment or the ten commandments you feel that God was commanding the whole world to keep His law? The bible does not say that ECR.
    By posting commentary about God resting on the seventh day is another questionable understanding about what the scriptures say vs what commentary argues.

    You comparecent of worship days is subjective and unscriptual at best.
    The New Testament proves that Gentiles were aliens, foriengner and stranger to God covenants.
    God never asked the Gentiles to keep the sabbath. We never said that God asked Gentiles to keep any day.


    How can you reject or ignor what God commissioned His apostle to teach?
    How cant you ignor what Peter taught on Pentecost?
    How can you ignor what's written in all the Epistles?

    The scriptures proves that day(s) a man chose to worship God, is between himself and God.
     
  13. k4c

    k4c Well-Known Member

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    You say the 10 commandments were only given to Israel and not the world, the Bible also says that those who are outside of the commonwealth of Israel are outside of the covenant of promise and are without God and without hope in the world.

    Do you worship other gods?
     
  14. Joe67

    Joe67 Newbie

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    k4c,

    1 Cor 15:19
    19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
    KJV

    Gal 5:4-6
    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. KJV

    Rom 8:23-25
    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

    25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
    KJV

    A man is justified without hope. The uncircumcised in heart taste of the powers of the life to come and are justified without hope. When hope came to Abraham he was given the grace work of circumcision. Circumcision, in the flesh, was not given in Eden.

    Man is justified without the circumcision of the heart. He is saved from his sins when his heart is circumcised and then he is given hope as he is brought under the covenant that the Lord gave to Abraham at the age of 99, twenty five years after his initial justification as he left the land of his nativity.

    Rom 5:1-2
    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. KJV

    Joe
     
  15. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Eph 2:11Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    Eph 2:14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
    Eph 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
    Eph 2:16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    Eph 2:17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    Eph 2:18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    Eph 2:19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    Eph 2:20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
    Eph 2:21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
    Eph 2:22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    What part of the identity of Gentiles dont you understand? There are only two grouping of people to follow, Jews and Gentiles.
    Gentiles nation were not given the law, they were not commanded to keep the Sabbath unless they were circumcized and lived within the borders of the Children of Israel.

    God has called both Jews and Gentiles to faith in Jesus Christ. The Jews primarily rejected God's plan of salvation and preach exactly what you're preaching.
     
  16. Revelation 14:6-12

    Revelation 14:6-12 Member

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    The Jews were to be the Light to the Gentiles and take it to them... ultimately they failed.

    I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; Isaiah 42:6

    Gentiles, who loved GOD, could indeed follow after HIM and keep HIS Commandments.

    Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Isaiah 56:6
     
  17. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    This text is does not support the idea that Jews were to preach anything to the Gentiles. This is clear a prophecy about Jesus.

    Isa 42:1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    Thank you for a short and to the point response.:):):)

    Why would God calls His people aliens, strangers and foreigners?
    Why ignor the texts that proves that the Gentiles were not a people of God?
     
  18. Revelation 14:6-12

    Revelation 14:6-12 Member

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    By quoting 1 Corinthians 15:19, that which is revealed is, that the doctrine of "Soul sleep" is Biblical...

    "...but some are fallen asleep..." 1 Corinthians 15:6

    "...they also which are fallen asleep in Christ..."
    1 Corinthians 15:18

    But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1 Corinthians 15:20

    "...Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." 1 Corinthians 15:23

    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:52

    Any 'gospel' that preaches otherwise is therefore a false gospel.

    Even seen in Acts 2. David, is "dead", "buried", "his sepulchre is with us unto this day", "is not ascended into the heavens". "...they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..."

    Any other 'gospel' or teaching [ie, immortal soul theology], is spiritualism.

    Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame. 1 Corinthians 15:34

    In response to Galatians, Seventh Day Adventists do not preach "justification" by the Law. We teach obedience to HIS Commandments from Love to Christ Jesus [John 14:15].

    Look at what Paul also said in regards to circumcision and obedience:

    Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

    For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:6

    For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:16

    Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Romans 3:30


    Looking at what Paul said, in that "Physical circumcision" is nothing and "physical uncircumcision" is nothing, but that which is important, that which is the something, is the "keeping of the commandments of God", which comes by "Faith which worketh by Love", and therefore this "New Creature" loves God to Obey HIM, this is the "spiritual circumcison", the "true circumcision", that of the Heart.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
  19. Revelation 14:6-12

    Revelation 14:6-12 Member

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    Dear Cribstyl,

    Please understand, that I am not saying that the Gentiles were not "strangers". I have said that the Jews were to be a Light unto them. Hence Jesus said even to the Samaritan woman, "Salvation is of the Jews".

    GOD's law provided for the "Stranger".

    There are many passages which serve a dual purpose, between Israel [peopels] and Israel [Christ].

    Do you really believe that the Jews were not to share with and teach the Gentiles? They were to be the shining example.

    Keep therefore and do [them]; for this [is] your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation [is] a wise and understanding people. Deuteronomy 4:6

    For what nation [is there so] great, who [hath] God [so] nigh unto them, as the LORD our God [is] in all [things that] we call upon him [for]? Deuteornomy 4:7

    And what nation [is there so] great, that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? Deuteronomy 4:8

    JESUS said, Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Matthew 5:14

    Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Matthew 5:15

    Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:16

    The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple. Psalms 119:130
     
  20. Byfaithalone1

    Byfaithalone1 The gospel is Jesus Christ!

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    If I wanted to do that, how would I know how? Where would I find the instructions for how to keep it holy? Would I keep it the way that old covenant Israelites kept it?

    BFA
     
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