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Gentiles 101

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by Cribstyl, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    1 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles—
    2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,
    3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly.
    4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,
    5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
    6 This mystery is [fn1] that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.


    ( These scripture above and below proves that no man knew different from what's written in the OT.
    Jews were to seperate themselves from Gentiles unless the Gentiles came into their borders as slaves, servant or otherwise mention.)

    7 Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given me by the working of his power.
    8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
    9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in [fn2] God who created all things,
    10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
    11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
    12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.
    13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  2. Byfaithalone1

    Byfaithalone1 The gospel is Jesus Christ!

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    Once upon a time, this concept was hard for me to understand. It didn't fit in my box.

    There's a price to be paid for thinking outside the box. The box can sometimes feel safe.

    BFA
     
  3. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    When the argument that "Joseph knew not to commit adultery" is presented.
    We should consider also that Potipher had a government with civil laws.
    Joseph was sent to jail for the aledged alegations by Potipher's wife? (lawful issue)

    Did Potipher keep God's law or was marriage ingrained in creation?
    It's undisputable that the sin of adultery is relative to a creation ordinance of marriage.
    Jesus pointed back to what's Moses wrote in Genesis not to commentary.

    Morality was intrinsic in creation, man degenerated as sin abbound. God said, all their imaginations were evil.

    Cain had wives and his family multiplied on the earth.
    "You might say that He knew not to commit adultery.
    I would say that say that God commanded marriage and most living thing are male and female.


    Our commentary should pass the test of scriptures and we should explain our comments when someone ask us about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  4. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    :cool:Yeah Crib, when they bring up that isolated text about Abraham keeping God's laws and commandments, they run away from all of Paul's explanation about Abraham's relationship to the law.
    Sheeze, when we read about how Ishmael was born, it appears that Abraham and Hagar became husband and wife. If the 10 commandments were given as yet, that would be a clear case of adultery.
    Gen 16:3And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

    I'll have to get back to you crib......kinda busy.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  5. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    My SDA friends argue saying " When God blessed and sanctify something, it means that people have to keep it untill God changes His mind."

    My SDA friends go on to say "Show me where God blessed and sanctified Sunday?"

    How do I respond? Let's apply what the bible say to understanding about
    "blessings" and "santification," sabbath, Sin, law, righteousness, judgment or any things we disagree about.
    I dont see where in Gen 2:1-3 that man was given the privillage to enter God's blessed and sanctified rest.

    How do some SDA respond? "get out of here", you're teaching against our doctrines. "How would you like it if we came into your denomination's forum and taught against your doctrine?

    My response; We should examine the word of God and agree with what it teaches. Repeating what you claim to believe does not always explain clearly what is written. Why get upset with when someone dont see your truth?

    Why should I allow my 4yr old and 6yr old learn about the bible from people like you?
     
  6. k4c

    k4c Well-Known Member

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    Well, lets take a closer look at the big picture.

    God blessed and sanctify the seventh day at creation.

    God teaches His lost people the Sabbath truth before Mt.Sinai.

    God protects the seventh day by Law.

    God uses the seventh day as a sign for His people.

    God tells His people to remember to keep it holy before He used it as a sign.

    Jesus kept it holy and He's our example.

    Paul kept it holy and gathered every Sabbath long after Jesus and he's our example.

    Both Jews and Gentiles gathered every Sabbath long after Jesus' death and resurrection.

    At one point, long after the death and resurrection of Jesus, almost the whole city gathered on the Sabbath to hear the word of God.

    Years after Jesus the seventh day was still being called the Sabbath.

    After Jesus' death His followers rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

    The Catholic church changed the day by force years after Jesus and the Apostles.

    Nowhere in the words of Jesus does He speak of changing the day or a doing away with the holiness of the seventh day.

    There is nowhere in the entire Bible that says we should change the day of worship to Sunday.

    There is nowwhere in the entire Bible that says Sunday is the Lord's day but there are dozens of verses that say the seventh day is the Lord's day.

    The Bible says Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

    The Bible says that Sabbath was made for mankind, not Jewish people.

    Jesus says it's okay to do good on the Sabbath.

    God desires to have a people who will keep His commandments because they love Him.

    The Ten Commandments define godly love. The first four point to God and the last six point to man.

    The Law points out sin and will always point out sin.

    In the New Covenant God writes His Law in our hearts and minds.

    The New Testament says those who obey the Law will be justified in the end.

    Need I go on...
     
  7. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    As usual, you unlike most others have a lot to say, that's not a bad thing at all.

    When I spend hours and days to give attention and response to every line of your post. You run off or ask another question to keep from explaining what you wrote.
    As ususal, I will consider responding to the first couple of statements and look of reasonable feedback.
     
  8. k4c

    k4c Well-Known Member

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    You see, I've learned a long time ago that when the first words that come out of a person's mouth makes no sense the rest of what they say has no bearing.

    For example; as soon as you reject the fact that God blessed, sanctified and called holy the seventh day at creation the rest of what you have to say is just fluff and folly of which I have no time to entertain.

    Sorry, but I had to learn this the hard way.
     
  9. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    True.... How sure are you that it was not only day#7 implied and not future seventh days?
    The dialog about what God create in each day, and the fact that God was finished all His work, implies that there was no other days to considers working or resting in the creation story of Gen1-2:3.

    Was God lost? Does He change His mind or repeat Himself? The fact that God made an everlasting covenant means that every word was not lost in Egypt.
    This quote underminds when and why Sabbath was first given and mentioned in the bible.
    It does not consider that the people was first tempting God by wanting to go back to Egypt in order to have food to eat.
    Exd 16:2 And the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness:
    Exd 16:3 And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the LORD in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, [and] when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger.

    So God came up with a law.......

    Exd 16:4Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.


    God tested them by given them a law. They were to go out 6 days and gather but on the seventh day, they to keep that day Holy by were not going out of the place.

    Your commentary is stacked like dominoes and you know that you cannot prove them one by one. You dont even try to prove them.


    :confused:


    What is said about sabbath being a sign between God and the COI, proves that no other nation is in covenant with God about the ten commandments (the law).

    Why do you feel that stacking these comments make biblical sense to people look to for understanding?
     
  10. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Try to understand that we both claim to believe in the word of God.
    I'm not the one stacking comments and not subjecting myself to explaining them. I'm actually asking you to explain what you're saying because it does not ring true.
    You're so full of wisdom you dont have to reference scripture? When I call it commentary, the crowd goes wild.^_^

    Truth is, when you do post scriptures you expose your efforts to stacking dominoes.

    I'm through arguing with you about your methods.

    I dont know why you dont take incidents of me departing from scriptures and expose my comments are contrary to God's word.
    What I would do is , stop the record player and explain myself or concede the point of argument.

    Try me
     
  11. k4c

    k4c Well-Known Member

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    You see, you've missed it again...:doh:

    Both the old covenant, as well as, the new covenant is made with Israel and both covenants contain the Law. One the Law on stone and the other the Law is in the heart but both are made with the house of Israel. Do you want to be part of the new covenant? Well the you will have to allow God to write His Law in your heart and stot trying to do away with.


     
  12. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Missed what? I was addressing and rebutting your stacked up claims. You're not responding accordingly.
    Now you've added something else to address. (moving target)

    What is the significance of you pointing out that both covenants was made with Israel?
    What is the significance of you saying that both covenants contain a law?
    (I do agree with you on those issues but that's not the whole story )
    You're forgetting to address the Abrahamic covenant of promise which was a prophetic mystery to the Jews until Paul revealed it.
    Being under the new covenant does not mean that the covenant with Abraham changes.
    Here is what Peter taught;
    Act 3:25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    All the kindreds of the earth were listed as part of a covenant.

    It's a shame that I cant help you to consider Paul's dialog.
    When Paul asked; WHAT PURPOSE DOES THE LAW SERVES?

    The answer to that question was NOT a reference to creation, but rather, by saying "THE LAW WAS ADDED"... this references the law being added to the Abrahamic covenant which preceded the law.


    Gal 3:19Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    I dont want argue about what laws, or which seed, and what promise because your stacks and stacks of dominoes will fall all over the place.


    You trying to argue that Gentiles were out of God's covenants is a "deductive reasoning move" (I used to call it a scam, but I repented of being too mean spirited) to make questionable claims as being the true Children of Israel, but let's not even go there right now.

    Hopefully you can address my responses to you previous stack of claims.
    I will still continus to post and address those claims you've noted.

    Respects.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  13. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    OH boy...How did I get back to talking primarily about the law and the sabbath?:doh:
     
  14. Byfaithalone1

    Byfaithalone1 The gospel is Jesus Christ!

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    I have heard that. My response is simple. God never set aside Sunday as a special day of rest and I don't observe it as such.

    I don't see that either. I certainly would not want to buid a system of theology on an assumption like this.

    BFA
     
  15. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    I created a thread to establish the words of the Old Covenant. You often start all kinds of threads loaded with commentary and questions, but you cant answer simple and logical questions about bible truths.

    I expect you to ignor the fact because your commentary is design to contradict the details written in the bible.
    The funny thing is Stew and ECR love to point out "he added no more words." SO if the Old Covenent is the ten commandments, Why would God promise to give the same words and call it new? Someone is a slick oil salesman. (we will be asking about the words of the New Covenant after we settle the words of the Old.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  16. Ivan25

    Ivan25 Newbie

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    I read through these post and am amazed how similar these discussions are to ones i had had with my brother. he quotes scripture and that is the end of it, but when i do, then he says that is not what it means. Jesus fulfilled the law, he says just the ceremonial law. my bible tells me that if you follow any part of the law, that you are under all of the law. now if you say we are still under the 10 commandments, when my brother got angry at our father and cursed him, shouldn't he have been taken out and stoned to death? as was the requirement under the law. we were condemned under the law. the law does not save us. only the grace of God. I am not trying to be rude or judgmental, if you believe we are still under any part of the law you are not reading the same bible that i am.
    Dear Lord,
    I pray that you will reveal to us your truth. If I have a misunderstanding of your word then please I pray open my eyes and my heart and reveal my error. If I understand what I have read, then reveal to these folks what I believe you have revealed to me.
    In Jesus name I pray AMEN
     
  17. Byfaithalone1

    Byfaithalone1 The gospel is Jesus Christ!

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    Ivan . . . welcome!

    I look forward to getting to know you better!

    BFA
     
  18. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    In Mark 2:27, it clearly states that the purpose for the Lord creating, sanctifying and blessing the seventh day rest was not for Himself but for mankind.
     
  19. Joe67

    Joe67 Newbie

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    ECR,

    That it (sabbath as a non-personal quality) might bring us to Him (the person of the Father's rest), even Jesus and the power of the resurrection that is in Jesus Christ our Lord, a priest forever, after the order of Melchisedec.

    Our true/full Sabbath is at the right hand of the Father, our righteousness and our advocate/defender.

    Joe
     
  20. Argy Lacedom

    Argy Lacedom Member

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    Constantine, a sun worshipper for most of his life, is the person who caused the the bible to be assembled into the form you worship today. He also changed the Sabbath to Sunday. If you accept the current bible you are tacitly accepting Constantine's authority to decide religious matters.

    AL
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
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