Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

[Riberra]

This is where we part company .. Who or what were the morning stars (PLURAL) Did fallen angels shout for joy, verse 7 says all the sons of God ? Of course not and looking at that scripture in context is a fly in the buttermilk of a powerful chapter.. Luke 2:8-16 is another example where sons of God as angels is not referred but could have if it were true ..Apparently Enoch says angels, Jasher says men that took women as they pleased and began to make to themselves idols and corrupt .. You can find many clear references as men being the sons of God but not angels imo

Job 38:1-7 talk about a time when there was no humans on the Earth .... a time when ALL the angels [Sons of God] shouted of Joy ,

add to that there is some Bible versions who use the word ANGELS in Job 38:1-7.

 

[4x4toy]

Job 38:1-7 talk about a time when there was no humans on the Earth .... add to that there is some Bible versions who use the words ANGELS in Genesis 6:1-4

But who or what were the morning stars . My thinking is you have to distinguish metaphors too

 

[Riberra]

But who or what were the morning stars . My thinking is you have to distinguish metaphors too

The morning star(s) refer to Jesus and the other to Lucifer [Lucifer is referred as "Son of the morning" somewhere else in the Bible because Lucifer was created by God] -----thus proving that Job 38:1-7 refers to a time before Lucifer's rebellion against God....and before that there was humans on the Earth.
Job 38
6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, 7 When the morning stars sang together, And ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[4x4toy]

The morning star(s) refer to Jesus and the other to Lucifer [Lucifer is referred as "Son of the morning" somewhere else in the Bible because Lucifer was created by God] -----thus proving that Job 38:1-7 refers to a time before Lucifer rebellion against God....and before that there was humans on the Earth.

Go to about 2:00 and start
if you should have a little time , interesting

 

[seventysevens]

You should look at it more closely.
Romans 1: (20-32)

Again very simple the scriptures declare with absolute certainty that ALL death came through the sin of Adam that disobeyed Gods command -

Roman5
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Point blank straight out God declares that Because the first Man that was created whom He God formed from the dust of the earth and breathed life into to him sinned because he disobeyed God , the result is that 100% of ALL mankind after the first created man sinned - all are begat in sin , ALL death of ALL mankind experience death because of the sin that the first created man committed - there is no one ever since that time who is without sin except Jesus ,

Though since you refuse to accept this fact you continue on in error .
You are looking at scripture trying to support a view that falls apart when you acknowledge all scripture - but it seems clear any scripture that refutes your view you choose not to acknowledge it

In the world today the same thing is happening where we see people who know in their heart there is a God but they do not want their own desires or actions to be held accountable to them so they espouse there is no God in order to feel comfortable living in a way that they choose to live pretending that they will not be held accountable for it

Romns 1
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

(no new creation just things made to look like them)

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

compare to

2 Timthy 3
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

 

[4x4toy]

And all this with no fallen angels mating with women , say it ain't so
2 Timothy 3
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Romans 5
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[jhwatts]

You really don't get the content and application of verse 20 and 21.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Notice the context of verse 21 is addressing the things in past. "when, were, darkened, glorified" the inference here is with the things that have been described in the past. Look at the content of passages 1 through 17. Paul is disusing things of his time and then the tone completely changes and then begins to discuss things in past tense. He is referring to things "from the creation of the world".



Just curious. What version are you reading from?

 

[4x4toy]

The morning star(s) refer to Jesus and the other to Lucifer [Lucifer is referred as "Son of the morning" somewhere else in the Bible because Lucifer was created by God] -----thus proving that Job 38:1-7 refers to a time before Lucifer's rebellion against God....and before that there was humans on the Earth.
Job 38
6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof, 7 When the morning stars sang together, And ALL the sons of God shouted for joy?

Isaiah 14 .. Is that speaking of a Babylonian fallen king Nebuchadnezzar, or Lucifer translated as Satan from greek or the planet/god Venus that precedes the sun at dawn .. Revelation 22:16

 

[seventysevens]

But who or what were the morning stars .

Angels rejoicing with other angels called the sons of God , the context is about God creating the earth and hanging it on it's axis.....mankind had not yet been created .
God is asking Job 'where were you when this happened ' reminding Job that Job and mankind was not around when God created the earth and hung it on it's axis in the presence of the angels as He created mankind well after he created the earth. I have seen some commentaries explain that it could well be real stars sing as in their own frequency heard in the heavenlies as God created them in harmony and they have celestial names and are used by God in representing them as constellations , it was plausible , but we have no way to prove or disprove it

 

[seventysevens]

You really don't get the content and application of verse 20 and 21.
Just curious. What version are you reading from?

I totally get the content and context , but you have chosen too see it all very differently than what scriptures teach.
In short Paul is making reference that mankind has known since the beginning GOD created all things and people know in their heart God created all things but they do not give credit and glory to the Creator God .
You are choosing to interpret scripture in a way you see fit to suppose your view is correct - the problem with your view is that in approx 4000 years since the book of Job there is not now nor ever been any shred of any archaeological evidence found anywhere on the planet to prove that there is any 2nd creation of mankind -
Be it male or female or any 2nd creation of any animal or any living thing . Scripture shows the names such as Noah and his lineage back to Adam - there is no such scripture that even remotely says there was another Adam created before the first Adam.
Everything you have presented is 100% entirely conjecture -supposition and concoction - the only 2nd creation story is the story you have created to suppose there ever was a 2nd creation of man
If there was any evidence it would have been found - they found dinosaur skeletons but no skeletons or homes or anything else that demonstrates a 2nd creation of mankind

 

[Riberra]

Isaiah 14 .. Is that speaking of a Babylonian fallen king Nebuchadnezzar, or Lucifer translated as Satan from greek or the planet/god Venus that precedes the sun at dawn .. Revelation 22:16

You are right for Isaiah 14 note however that Lucifer was referred: day-star, son of the morning---->before his fall...
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
Since his rebellion against God the name Lucifer was changed for Satan ----->which mean adversary .


Revelation 22:16 is about Jesus the morning star.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.

 

[jhwatts]

Angels rejoicing with other angels called the sons of God , the context is about God creating the earth and hanging it on it's axis.....mankind had not yet been created .
God is asking Job 'where were you when this happened ' reminding Job that Job and mankind was not around when God created the earth and hung it on it's axis in the presence of the angels as He created mankind well after he created the earth

Read 38:3 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. He is speaking to Job directly and not generally.

Notice

Job 38:26 26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

The first creation has already happened and has is reminding Job of what he did before.

Genesis 2:

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

 

[jhwatts]

I totally get the content and context , but you have chosen too see it all very differently than what scriptures teach.
In short Paul is making reference that mankind has known since the beginning GOD created all things and people know in their heart God created all things but they do not give credit and glory to the Creator God .
You are choosing to interpret scripture in a way you see fit to suppose your view is correct - the problem with your view is that in approx 4000 years since the book of Job there is not now nor ever been any shred of any archaeological evidence found anywhere on the planet to prove that there is any 2nd creation of mankind -
Be it male or female or any 2nd creation of any animal or any living thing . Scripture shows the names such as Noah and his lineage back to Adam - there is no such scripture that even remotely says there was another Adam created before the first Adam.
Everything you have presented is 100% entirely conjecture -supposition and concoction - the only 2nd creation story is the story you have created to suppose there ever was a 2nd creation of man
If there was any evidence it would have been found - they found dinosaur skeletons but no skeletons or homes or anything else that demonstrates a 2nd creation of mankind

There are a ton of evidence to support. Really. Do you know how many different types of humans have been found from an archaeological perspective.

Care to tell me how you have dated the time of the content of the book of Job?

You still have not told me the version you are reading from.

 

[seventysevens]

Again you are picking scriptures out of context to fit your view -
Read the entire chapter in ONE context - God is responding to Job's complaining - so God is saying - Where were you when I did this and I created that , and I made this , If you were there and if you have understanding of what I did explain to me what i did and how I did it - the whole chapter is about how God is Humbling Job - putting Job in his place as some may say in todays language
a snippet

12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?

24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,
26 to water a land where no one lives,
an uninhabited desert,
27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?

28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Beard with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?
35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?
36 Who gives the ibis wisdom
or gives the rooster understanding?
37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket?
41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?

It has Nothing whatsoever to do with a second creation of mankind

I read all the various translations , often post from kjv, nasb, niv nkjv and others

Read 38:3 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. He is speaking to Job directly and not generally.

Notice

Job 38:26 26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;

The first creation has already happened and has is reminding Job of what he did before.

Genesis 2:

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

 

[Riberra]

The first creation has already happened and has is reminding Job of what God did before.

The first creation [the First Earth Age ]concern the time when the sons of God [Angels]shouted of Joy when God created the Earth Job 38:1-7.The angels (not all)have then chose Earth to live upon ...in the FIRST EARTH AGE.... Something gone bad ---God destroyed that age in Genesis 1:2a

That is what the page i link is talking about ....that may sounds surreal -----the demonstration is done with Scriptures...
Link:
The World That Then Was, The First Earth Age | World Events and the Bible

The remembering of that period of time have been removed from the memory by God....the same thing will happen [ the remembering of our actual life in the actual SECOND EARTH AGE will be removed from our memory ]for those of us who will receive their immortal body back again when we will live on the New Earth ---->during the Third Earth Age.

 

[jhwatts]

Again you are picking scriptures out of context to fit your view -
Read the entire chapter in ONE context - God is responding to Job's complaining - so God is saying - Where were you when I did this and I created that , and I made this , If you were there and if you have understanding of what I did explain to me what i did and how I did it - the whole chapter is about how God is Humbling Job - putting Job in his place as some may say in todays language
a snippet

12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 “What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?

24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,
26 to water a land where no one lives,
an uninhabited desert,
27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?

28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
or lead out the Beard with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?
35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?
36 Who gives the ibis wisdom
or gives the rooster understanding?
37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket?
41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?

It has Nothing whatsoever to do with a second creation of mankind

I read all the various translations , often post from kjv, nasb, niv nkjv and others

At least now you acknowledge there is a second creation.

 

[seventysevens]

At least now you acknowledge there is a second creation.

Again you demonstrate your inability to properly understand what you read

I said "It has Nothing whatsoever to do with a second creation of mankind"
meaning there is no such thing as a second creation of mankind which is why Job 38 is not at all referring to something that does not exist and has never happened
you completely misunderstood Job 38 , and completely misunderstood what I said

 

[4x4toy]

More Metaphors
28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

All Genesis 38 is metaphor reference to physical creation between God and Job, there was no mistake and Job knew and observed exactly physically what God was talking about , 6 and 7 stars sang ''planets and stars'' , sons of God shouted for joy ''Sun and moon'' Genesis 1:14-17
Only Revelation 22:16 Qualifies as one only bright and morning star imo with ''I am'' the root and offspring of David

 

[Riberra]

Only Revelation 22:16 Qualifies as one only bright and morning star imo with ''I am'' the root and offspring of David

In a previous post you have associated Lucifer as being the morning star mentioned in Revelation 22:16 ------>until i pointed your error

post 1511
Isaiah 14 .. Is that speaking of a Babylonian fallen king Nebuchadnezzar, or Lucifer translated as Satan from greek or the planet/god Venus that precedes the sun at dawn .. Revelation 22:16

 

[4x4toy]

In a previous post you have associated Lucifer as being the morning star mentioned in Revelation 22:16 ------>until i pointed your error

If I did it was merely a mistake, I've contended the whole while that Jesus says he is the root and offspring of David ,the bright and morning star and that Nebuchadnezzar was a reference to a planet a false greek god , Babylonian king .. It is why I emphasize ''plural'' stars can't mean more than one regarding any but Jesus .. Which post are you referring to Bro .