Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

SeventyOne

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Now YOU know that is not true.

There has not been ONE SINGLE Giant fossil discovered.

I am not insisting that because of that there were none because the Scriptures say that there was.

I actually do NOT have to do any research as I am not the one who is insisting of their existence.
I think it is up to you to prove what YOU believe and not up to me to disprove what you believe.

You didn't actually look at any of those links, did you? I provided records of hundreds, as well as eyewitness testimony from Josephus pertaining to the giant bones on display even in his day. You aren't finding any bones because your eyes are closed.
 
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Major1

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Could you come up with a “prince” over a county that would require two angels of God to overcome? I don’t think so.


Could you come up with a “prince” over some country that could withstand an angel of God 21 days? Maybe rocket man from North Korea???


But seriously you have revealed the root of our disagreement. I believe angels both good and fallen are still active today, as well as demons (not fallen angels). I believe there is a spiritual realm we cannot see with our eyes unless God allows it to be so. I also believe this is all throughout the scriptures for everyone to see that do not use the theological scalpel to cut the supernatural out of their bibles. That is just my opinion, but a Biblically based one I can defend.

I am not able to understand why you would think that I said demons are not active today from the post I made in answering your question about Daniel 10.

Where did I say that angels were not active today?
Where did I say that there is not a spiritual realm that we can not see?
Up to this point you have been very capable but now you are adding words to what I said.

Want to read my post again and tell me how you come to those conclusions?

Do you remember Alexander the Great? He conquered the known world in just a few years with 33,000 men. That is ONE!

What about Hitler. He killed 6 million Jews and 55 million people in 5 years. There is 2.
Do you think that they were just powerful men or maybe did they have some help along the way?

Honestly, I do not know what you are proposing.
 
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Major1

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The 'wasting time' was in reference to your long diatribes concerning skirting around my simple question. I'm not wasting any more time concerning that question with you, because you refused to answer it. I've moved on from that particular topic.

As did I when you asked but here you are still posting things to me. I do hope that NOW you will move on.
 
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Major1

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You didn't actually look at any of those links, did you? I provided records of hundreds, as well as eyewitness testimony from Josephus pertaining to the giant bones on display even in his day. You aren't finding any bones because your eyes are closed.

And you are still posting stuff to me.
 
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seventysevens

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Not the case brother. The Book of Enoch was rejected 2000 years ago by our church fathers and actual the Jews and Jesus Himself..
It is Occultic and it is full of non-Biblical comments.
You make statements that are merely opinion while you have no understanding of physical evidence
Evidence has been shown to you , you don't want it to be true so you deny proof :)
Prove that it is occultic !
You Never have any proof or evidence of what you proclaim
There are churches of satan that use canon bible verse in their services - you think that means the bible is Ocultic ?
You Never have any proof or evidence of what you proclaim
 
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LastSeven

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I have NO logic!

The meaning of the words "Sons of God" in the Old. Test. depend on LOCATION.

In Genesis 6, the location of the Context is Earth, hence the Sons of God mentioned there were men.
They were the children of Seth, the 3rd son of Adam and Eve.

In the 3 times that phrase is used Job the LOCATION is heaven, hence the Sons of God there are ANGELS. There were NO men in heaven.
Why can't even the context of earth have been referring to angels? Did angels not come to earth?
 
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LastSeven

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Not the case brother. The Book of Enoch was rejected 2000 years ago by our church fathers and actual the Jews and Jesus Himself..
It is Occultic and it is full of non-Biblical comments.
The book was accepted, and is still read today, by the Egyptian and Ethiopian Christians.
 
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LastSeven

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it is full of non-Biblical comments.
This is often cited as a reason to reject Enoch but that doesn't make sense to me. What's a "biblical comment"?

Every book has unique attributes and "comments". Isn't John the only gospel to refer to Jesus as "the word" through which all things were created? Should we then reject the gospel of John because the other gospels don't make the same claim?

And isn't Revelation the only book that calls Jesus the Alpha and Omega? Should we then reject the book of Revelation because nowhere else in scripture is this claim made?

No, if you're going to reject Enoch you need a better reason than that, or reject half the Bible.
 
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Postvieww

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I am not able to understand why you would think that I said demons are not active today from the post I made in answering your question about Daniel 10.

Where did I say that angels were not active today?
Where did I say that there is not a spiritual realm that we can not see?



I said: So you don’t believe fallen angels can be on or interact with this earth?


You responded Post #592


"That is correct my friend. Never have and never will for the Bible reason I have already given."


If I misunderstood your comment please correct me and I apologize.
 
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iamlamad

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NO!

There is NO specific proof that the "Prince" was a fallen angel as I posted the reason on another post for you.

What you are saying my friend goes all the way back to where we began this conversation.

Deut. 4:2..............
"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you".

That is exactly what you are doing. Friend......it just is not there.

Again, if you want to believe all that nonsense, go right ahead and do so. But you can not believe it and say that it is Biblical. It is YOUR thinking and it is not found in the Bible but you can do as you wish.
The other alternative is that you believe a human king could prevent Gabriel, an archangel, for doing what he came to do! In my humble opinion, this is very far fetched! It is MUCH more likely that this prince was a principality as Paul taught us.
 
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Postvieww

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Angels don't marry, period.
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


You are absolutely correct “angels of God” “in heaven” DO NOT marry.

What scripture do you use to show us what “fallen angels” who “kept not their first estate but left their own habitation” are capable of?

I would use:

Jude 6: 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

We know that angels of God can appear like men, we know that some fallen angels are very powerful as shown in Daniel 10.

I know of no scripture that supports the interpretation for fallen angels you assign to Matthew 22:30.
 
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Davy

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Hello Davy. I hope you are doing well. Please try to understand that I am not forcing anything at all. I am simply reading the Scriptures and posting them as they are found in the Bible, how does that translate into "forcing".

Now you said.............
"This suggests that they changed something which made it possible for them to mate with flesh woman."

That is YOUR suggestion Davy, not mine and certainly not God's. There is NO suggestion at all that Jude is talking about mating of angels and humans.

Of course I must strongly disagree with you, since Jude 1 with the conjunction "Even as..." is using the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah to describe how those angels went after strange flesh.

Obviousely that choose to leave heaven as they followed Lucifer in his rebellion.
"They left their own habitation" nowhere says they had sex with humans.

Obviously, Jude 1 is speaking of the angels that sinned in Gen.6 during the days of Noah, as Peter also referenced that event, linking their sin with the time of Noah and not with the time before of old when Satan first rebelled. Nice try though:

2 Peter 2:4-5
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
KJV

Those specific angels of Gen.6 that sinned during Noah's day are chained in hell waiting on the Judgment day. That is not all of the one third of angels that rebelled originally at Satan's rebellion.


Demons and Satan have caused a lot of problems that is for sure. but there is NO BIBLE RECORD of fallen angels having sex and producing hybrid offsprings.

Well, sure there is a BIBLE RECORD OF FALLEN ANGELS TAKING WIVES OF FLESH WOMEN. It's plainly written in Genesis 6:

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

KJV

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

KJV

The phrase "men of renown" means 'men of the name', i.e., men of the legend. It's pointing to the ancient mythologies of gods upon the earth that's written in several ancient cultures.

2 Sam 21:18-22
18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.

19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
21 And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.
22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
KJV


Why would God's Word bother to describe that giant that had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, and was of great stature (Hebrew madown dealing with the idea of height)? It's because it's to show the giant as a HYBRID. You might find a very few today that have six fingers, but it's very rare, not normal, showing a mutation. That means this cannot be used to try and say the giants were just strong bullies.
 
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Major1

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Of course I must strongly disagree with you, since Jude 1 with the conjunction "Even as..." is using the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah to describe how those angels went after strange flesh.



Obviously, Jude 1 is speaking of the angels that sinned in Gen.6 during the days of Noah, as Peter also referenced that event, linking their sin with the time of Noah and not with the time before of old when Satan first rebelled. Nice try though:

2 Peter 2:4-5
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
KJV

Those specific angels of Gen.6 that sinned during Noah's day are chained in hell waiting on the Judgment day. That is not all of the one third of angels that rebelled originally at Satan's rebellion.




Well, sure there is a BIBLE RECORD OF FALLEN ANGELS TAKING WIVES OF FLESH WOMEN. It's plainly written in Genesis 6:

Gen 6:2
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

KJV

Gen 6:4
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

KJV

The phrase "men of renown" means 'men of the name', i.e., men of the legend. It's pointing to the ancient mythologies of gods upon the earth that's written in several ancient cultures.

2 Sam 21:18-22
18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.

19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
21 And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.
22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
KJV


Why would God's Word bother to describe that giant that had six fingers on each hand and six toes on earth foot, and was of great stature (Hebrew madown dealing with the idea of height)? It's because it's to show the giant as a HYBRID. You might find a very few today that have six fingers, but it's very rare, not normal, showing a mutation. That means this cannot be used to try and say the giants were just strong bullies.

You make an excellent observation on "Even as" in Jude 7.

But if we look at the previous verses we see that verse #7 is Jude's 3rd warning of "Apostasy".

First warning was and the example he uses was Israel in their unbelief.
Second was the angles which kept not their 1st estate.
Third is the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

"Even as" then IMO refers to the 1st and 2nd warnings of APOSTASY and IS NOT specifically to angels being involved in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Please read verse #6 carefully and when you do you see that it ends with the judgment of those angels. That is the end of the 2bd warning.

Again, look at verse #7 and you DO NOT see angels at all. It says "CITIES" not angels.

Now notice the phrase......"Having in like manner with these cities" in verse #7 ... has the meaning that all four of those wicked cities including Zeboim and Admah were guilty of "fornication" and the deviations associated more generally with Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jude reveals here that Zeboim and Admah were similarly guilty with Sodom and Gomorrah and the sin was Homosexuality among the humans in those cities. Failure to note this has led some people to interpret this as meaning that "angels" committed fornication and went after strange flesh (Sodomy) like the angels!

But of course when we study the whole Bible and consider all the ramifications we see that Jesus said in Matthew 22:30, "In heaven the sons of God shall be as the angels of heaven who neither marry, nor are given in marriage," indicating that angelic life is utterly and completely different from life on earth and one can not interact sexually with the other.

Jude 1 IS NOT speaking of angels who sinned in Genesis 6. Lets read Jude 1 shall we..........
"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called".

As you can see, there is no mention in Jude 1 of fallen angels of any kind.

As for 2 Peter 2:4, I agree. He is speaking of fallen angels however what you missed and it is the key, the event Peter is talking about took place BEFORE man was put upon the earth, when there was a rebellion against God led by Satan whereby 1/3 of the angles rebelled. That my friends means that the fallen angles were " cast down to hell and were delivered into chains of darkness to be resereved unto judgment".

That my friend according to your own Scripture reference that the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 are fallen angels could NOT BE FALLEN ANGELS" as they were all chained or in hell.
 
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Major1

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The other alternative is that you believe a human king could prevent Gabriel, an archangel, for doing what he came to do! In my humble opinion, this is very far fetched! It is MUCH more likely that this prince was a principality as Paul taught us.

I appreciate your thinking on that.

But that is not the only alternative. It is clearly logical and Biblical that the human king could have been influenced and powered by a demonic force.

Again, how else could Alexander conquer the whole world in 10 years with only 40,000 men?
How could Hitler conquer all of Europe in just 3 years?

Demons have always been able to lead, influence and control human beings.
 
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Major1

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I said: So you don’t believe fallen angels can be on or interact with this earth?


You responded Post #592


"That is correct my friend. Never have and never will for the Bible reason I have already given."


If I misunderstood your comment please correct me and I apologize.

My bad! I misunderstood you. I agree and of course fallen angels have, did and still do influence and affect humans.

It is I who apologize.
 
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Postvieww

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I appreciate your thinking on that.

But that is not the only alternative. It is clearly logical and Biblical that the human king could have been influenced and powered by a demonic force.

Again, how else could Alexander conquer the whole world in 10 years with only 40,000 men?
How could Hitler conquer all of Europe in just 3 years?

Demons have always been able to lead, influence and control human beings.

Yes, but no human can hinder Gods angels!
 
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Postvieww

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My bad! I misunderstood you. I agree and of course fallen angels have, did and still do influence and affect humans.

It is I who apologize.
No problem. Apologies around here are rare. I respect you for that.
 
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Major1

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You make statements that are merely opinion while you have no understanding of physical evidence
Evidence has been shown to you , you don't want it to be true so you deny proof :)
Prove that it is occultic !
You Never have any proof or evidence of what you proclaim
There are churches of satan that use canon bible verse in their services - you think that means the bible is Ocultic ?
You Never have any proof or evidence of what you proclaim

I am sorry that you feel that way my friend.

I have no excuse to give you. I have no explination to give you. All I can say is that I have read the book of Enoch and I have posted the exact words found in that book which are not only Occultic but are also Heretical.

If that is not proof or evidence then what is it that you need to see????

I have posted Scriptures from the Bible now several times for you. If you choose to ignore them then that is not my fault. It is really disinguinouse for you to say that I have not given you any evidence.
 
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Postvieww

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That my friends means that the fallen angles were " cast down to hell and were delivered into chains of darkness to be resereved unto judgment".

I agree and of course fallen angels have, did and still do influence and affect humans.


This is the part you are missing IMHO. All fallen angels are not chained or in hell. Only the ones that sinned. What was that sin? You say the rebellion but earlier you agree that fallen angels “did and still do” affect humans.

My brother you have just backed yourself into a corner. Chained fallen angels are not affecting anyone or the chains are meaningless. All fallen angels are not in chains, only the ones that committed this sin, which you deny.
 
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seventysevens

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It is Occult and it is full of non-Biblical comments.
You say the book of Enoch is Occultic , but yet you refuse to provide any evidence that is true - so you make allegations with no intent to prove what you say - then you want people to believe you - that makes no sense at all
Since Jesus referred to the book of Enoch in a good way - you suppose that Jesus is Occultic ? based on your opinion it would seem so
 
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