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GodLovesCats

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Man's ways have NOTHING to do with what happened before humans existed. It has NOTHING to do with the scienific facts people learn and teach. God's Word is NOT proof that what happened did not happen. A ton of evidence proves what happened. The Bible is NOT evidence of anything related to science. It is just that, God's Word - not organic material, rocks, or anything else in natural history museums and science labs.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Of course, it all depends on who is trusted. Trust God on one side. Trust man is the opposing side.

Guess who wins , always ! :)

If and when anyone goes along with God, trusting Him and obeying Him, then he will learn from God and how to test things accordingly. This again verifies that man's ways are not God's Ways, and God's Way is not man's way.
 
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klutedavid

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According to Yahuweh and all His Word, yes. There is nothing about this at all that contradicts any part of His Word, His Plan nor His Purpose.
The problem with this idea that you propose is that, we should find abundant dinosaur fossils. In the very same rock strata that we find human habitation and human fossils occurring.

The facts indicate that dinosaur fossils are found in much deeper strata and way below where we find human fossils. How do you explain these simple observations in the rock strata?
 
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klutedavid

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That's right. The Bible is not proof of science. It dis-proves science.
The Bible does not disprove science.

Science concerns observation and description of the so called natural world.

Te Genesis account is not a grand, historical account of the world. Genesis is an abbreviated description of people and places written by Jews under the law.

Adam and Eve existed and so did Noah, but the narration of Genesis and precise details are absent in that general history of the earth.

Genesis is more dominated by Abraham and that is what Genesis is really about. The lineage of the Jewish people is displayed in Genesis.

We know Genesis was written by the Jews who were under the law, at the time when it was written.

Because we have clean and unclean animals in Genesis. Genesis has sacrifices. Genesis mentions priests. Abraham obeyed commandments, statutes, and ordinances.

Above all, Genesis compacts the entire creation event into six days and then a day of rest.

Genesis is nothing more than a Jewish narration filled with references to a legal code, a legal code that was unknown until centuries after Abraham.

The truth is in Genesis but lies underneath the patriotic overlay by the Jews.
 
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klutedavid

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Of course, it all depends on who is trusted. Trust God on one side. Trust man is the opposing side.

Guess who wins , always ! :)

If and when anyone goes along with God, trusting Him and obeying Him, then he will learn from God and how to test things accordingly. This again verifies that man's ways are not God's Ways, and God's Way is not man's way.
I disagree with your proposition.

Read the text carefully and interpret the text as you see fit. But don't sit there and make statements regarding your interpretation and the way other people read the text. Especially about, 'God's Ways', and ,'not God's Way'.

No one on this planet knows how the creation event took place.
 
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DamianWarS

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Which would be great news for your effort to disprove the irrefutable statements I have made since you could simply go to the Bible - written with eastern logic to show all those laws of God that are of the form "Do 'A' just as i DID NOT DO 'A' but will say I did it anyway even though that is not what I did"
eastern thinking doesn't care about your literal strawman argument.
 
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Anguspure

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It would mean that God could not accurately convey the time element in Ex 20:11 billions of years later at Sinai. And that Adam lived 500 million years then observed the 7th day
But He did convey the time element accurately. If Moses had been sitting beside YHWH when He created the heavens and the Earth, he would have seen that He did it in the time frame of 6 solar days and rested on the seventh.
He would have also observed that, because the work that was taking place involved the creation and expansion of space time itself, time within the system was being expanded at an astonishing rate giving the impression that millions of years were flashing by in seconds.
Then on the seventh day he would have observed that at some point time had settled to the pace that was familiar to him. So entering the system that had taken 6 days to create he would observe the evidence of billions of years of creation.
 
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Anguspure

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Man's ways have NOTHING to do with what happened before humans existed. It has NOTHING to do with the scienific facts people learn and teach. God's Word is NOT proof that what happened did not happen. A ton of evidence proves what happened. The Bible is NOT evidence of anything related to science. It is just that, God's Word - not organic material, rocks, or anything else in natural history museums and science labs.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.

They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them.

Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. Psalm 19

Science, properly done, is itself the work of revealing what God has told us through His creation.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Science, properly done, is itself the work of revealing what God has told us through His creation.

Science reveals what God made and how He used His creations. It is not limited to what God said to men. We learn a lot about God's creations through science first, then how He fits in the evolution narrative.
 
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Anguspure

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Science reveals what God made and how He used His creations. It is not limited to what God said to men. We learn a lot about God's creations through science first, then how He fits in the evolution narrative.
In so far as He is Creator, He created Natural Selection itself, and the limits of this tuning and preservation instrument are set by Him. You are right, all of this is revealed by the honest pursuit of knowledge about the created world that science is at it's core.
 
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BobRyan

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Collin Patterson (atheist and diehard evolutionist to the day he died in 1998) - Paleontologist British Museum of Natural history speaking at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 - said:


Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians

"'...holding creationist ideas could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"

"...Now I think that many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here...

"...,Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge , apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics..."

--======================= second quote


Colin Patterson (Senior paleontologist at the British Natural History Museum and author of the Museum’s general text on evolution) in a talk given at the American Museum of Natural History 1981

Patterson:“Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing…that is true?

I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural history and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology seminar in the University of Chicago, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said “I know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school

"...I'm speaking on two subjects, evolution and creationism, and I believe it's true to say that I know nothing whatever about either...One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, well, let's call it non-evolutionary , was last year I had a sudden realization.

"For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. "That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long...

It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that's all we know about it...

about eighteen months ago...I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolution as revealed truth in some way."

=========================================
You will not find "True confessions" such as that by its own diehard adherents in any real branch of science .. because in the real sciences - the theories are tested "to see if" they are true.


You are totally makling up that baloney Bob. Evolution is proven beyond all possible doubt.

At this point it is unclear whether you are trying to make your point or illustrate mine

Oh, so you refuse to prove your point until I prove mine.

as already stated it is difficult to tell if you are trying to illustrate my point for me on purpose ... or not
 
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BobRyan

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Science reveals what God made and how He used His creations. .

I don't know of a single text book on evolution that reads that way.

That is because textbooks are about science, not religion, so they can't include the name of God.

Then they need to get rid of those "articles of faith" that they state when it comes to expressing belief in evolutionism
 
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BobRyan

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What articles of faith are you referring to?

There is not "belief in" evolution, only knowledge. Nobody "believes" 1+1=2. Either you know it or you don't.

already debunked here


Collin Patterson (atheist and diehard evolutionist to the day he died in 1998) - Paleontologist British Museum of Natural history speaking at the American Museum of Natural History in 1981 - said:

Patterson - quotes Gillespie's arguing that Christians

"'...holding creationist ideas could plead ignorance of the means and affirm only the fact,'"

Patterson countered, "That seems to summarize the feeling I get in talking to evolutionists today. They plead ignorance of the means of transformation, but affirm only the fact (saying): 'Yes it has...we know it has taken place.'"

"...Now I think that many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here...

"...,Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge , apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics..."

--======================= second quote


Colin Patterson (Senior paleontologist at the British Natural History Museum and author of the Museum’s general text on evolution) in a talk given at the American Museum of Natural History 1981

Patterson:“Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing…that is true?

I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural history and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology seminar in the University of Chicago, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said “I know one thing – it ought not to be taught in high school

"...I'm speaking on two subjects, evolution and creationism, and I believe it's true to say that I know nothing whatever about either...One of the reasons I started taking this anti-evolutionary view, well, let's call it non-evolutionary , was last year I had a sudden realization.

"For over twenty years I had thought that I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up, and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. "That was quite a shock that one could be misled for so long...

It does seem that the level of knowledge about evolution is remarkably shallow. We know it ought not to be taught in high school, and perhaps that's all we know about it...

about eighteen months ago...I woke up and I realized that all my life I had been duped into taking evolution as revealed truth in some way."

=========================================
You will not find "True confessions" such as that by its own diehard adherents in any real branch of science .. because in the real sciences - the theories are tested "to see if" they are true.


"...Now I think that many people in this room would acknowledge that during the last few years, if you had thought about it at all, you've experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith. I know that's true of me, and I think it's true of a good many of you in here...

"...,Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge , apparent knowledge which is actually harmful to systematics..."

evolutionism's story telling "stories easy enough to tell but they are not science"
 
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