Gay Conversion Therapy

[ThatRobGuy]

My wife (of 45 years) and I have always found that lust was good clean fun.

Nothing wrong with that! lol

Seems like this attitude of "being ashamed of satisfying an urge for something that feels pleasurable" is one that comes from what I can only perceive as self-loathing or a desire to punish one's self.

...and I notice that it only seems to be restricted to certain types of pleasurable things and not others.

For instance, they might say that a woman dressing sexy is bad because it might give guys a physical response (making them think about sex). But, I've never heard them chastise a restaurant for making decadent food that smells so good that is gives passers by a physical response (making them think about eating).


I guess I've never understood why people are so ashamed of enjoying pleasurable feelings with regard to that one aspect of life. I've yet to meet anyone who is bashful or ashamed about liking food that tastes good to them, or liking the good feeling they get when riding on a roller coaster, etc...


It must be kind of a frustrating existence, denying oneself things that feel good (and cause no harm) because some people from the Victorian era persuaded churches to put extra emphasis on "sexual morality" over other things...and for some reason, that's carried over to present day among modern American evangelical (and some catholic) churches.

 

[Mayzoo]

So infertile heterosexuals should not get married as doing so would mean that any intercourse they had would be for lustful reasons.

A very narrow sector of Christians believe that if a couple marries, and one is deemed infertile, they are to divorce. Then the fertile person is to remarry and the infertile person is not to remarry.

 

[FireDragon76]

A very narrow sector of Christians believe that if a couple marries, and one is deemed infertile, they are to divorce. Then the fertile person is to remarry and the infertile person is not to remarry.

I know of no churches that permit divorce or annulment for infertility. In Catholicism it was traditionally restricted only to couples that were physiologically incapable of engaging in intercourse.

 

[Mayzoo]

I know of no churches that permit divorce or annulment for infertility. In Catholicism it was traditionally restricted only to couples that were physiologically incapable of engaging in intercourse.

I did not mention it was a "church".

Since it is a very minor sector, I would imagine very few people had exposure to it.

I missed your point I guess.

 

[KarateCowboy]

If you're making the comparison that I think you are...which is, you're suggesting that one might be hypocritical if they take the "two consenting adults" with regards to marriage/relationships/etc...but don't side with religious people who want to deny service to someone, then you're reasoning is a bit flawed as it's not an apples to apples comparison.

For instance, if two guys down the street want to be married or in a relationship, that has absolutely zero negative impact on you or anyone else.

However, if a gay person is being denied service by a licensed business, that does impact them negatively.

What this tells me is that you're OK with robbing people of their self-determination, autonomy, and freedom to choose, depending on your approval of the behavior in question.

I can bring in all sorts of examples of how aberrosexual marriage impacts others in ways they would describe as negative. I can also argue how doing business with a pervert could put me at risk. Then we can sit and argue about how negative or not all the things are. We can do this until the cows come home, and possibly never come to an agreement.

And that's the sticking point: when we understand the basics of civics, we understand the importance of the right to autonomy and matters of consent. Progressives and illiberal liberals do not care, because they want to run other people's lives. When it's something they estimate as bad, then consent does not matter.

You've basically proven my point with your response.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Is your hetero-sexuality a lifestyle choice or is it innate and programmed into your sexual behaviour?

It's worth pointing out that, in biology, sex is a form of reproduction between a male and female. There is no homosexual reproduction. Sex is inherently about male/female. Sexual attraction exists in animals and human to drive us to reproduce.

 

[loveofourlord]

What this tells me is that you're OK with robbing people of their self-determination, autonomy, and freedom to choose, depending on your approval of the behavior in question.

I can bring in all sorts of examples of how aberrosexual marriage impacts others in ways they would describe as negative. I can also argue how doing business with a pervert could put me at risk. Then we can sit and argue about how negative or not all the things are. We can do this until the cows come home, and possibly never come to an agreement.

And that's the sticking point: when we understand the basics of civics, we understand the importance of the right to autonomy and matters of consent. Progressives and illiberal liberals do not care, because they want to run other people's lives. When it's something they estimate as bad, then consent does not matter.

You've basically proven my point with your response.

self determination is fine if old enough the issue is more when they are children and only there because their parents have decided to have them tortured for being or acting gay.

 

[Tiras84]

What this tells me is that you're OK with robbing people of their self-determination, autonomy, and freedom to choose, depending on your approval of the behavior in question.

I can bring in all sorts of examples of how aberrosexual marriage impacts others in ways they would describe as negative.

Would the examples be comparable to the topic at hand or would you bring them up because you say X kind of marriage is bad?

 

[Tiras84]

It's worth pointing out that, in biology, sex is a form of reproduction between a male and female. There is no homosexual reproduction. Sex is inherently about male/female. Sexual attraction exists in animals and human to drive us to reproduce.

Your point is dependent on three false assumptions:
human sexuality is just about the physical sex act.
the physical act of sex is only about reproduction
your reasoning is universally applied.

 

[Jon Osterman]

Your point is dependent on three false assumptions:
human sexuality is just about the physical sex act.
the physical act of sex is only about reproduction
your reasoning is universally applied.

It is! Anything else is aberrant.

 

[Tiras84]

It is! Anything else is aberrant.

women past menopause are aberrant?

 

[Zoii]

It's worth pointing out that, in biology, sex is a form of reproduction between a male and female. There is no homosexual reproduction. Sex is inherently about male/female. Sexual attraction exists in animals and human to drive us to reproduce.

yes and so?

 

[Jon Osterman]

women past menopause are aberrant?

No, of course not. Why would you think that?

 

[1000Flames]

It's worth pointing out that, in biology, sex is a form of reproduction between a male and female. There is no homosexual reproduction. Sex is inherently about male/female. Sexual attraction exists in animals and human to drive us to reproduce.

It is worth pointing out, that in biology, legs are a form of transportation. There are no bikes, wheelchairs or crutches. Legs are in inherently transportational. Legs exist to get from Point A to point B.

 

[Tiras84]

No, of course not. Why would you think that?

no reproduction.

If one is applying the reasoning of Karate Cowboy universally then it would apply to any who can't reproduce.

 

[Jon Osterman]

no reproduction.

If one is applying the reasoning of Karate Cowboy universally then it would apply to any who can't reproduce.

It is not the women themselves that are aberrant, but the sex. All women go through the menopause (if they live long enough). Not being able to reproduce is not sinful but having sex with only lust as your motivation is.

 

[Tiras84]

It is not the women themselves that are aberrant, but the sex. All women go through the menopause (if they live long enough). Not being able to reproduce is not sinful but having sex with only lust as your motivation is.

well if reproduction is not possible then what other motivation is there to have sex other than lust?

 

[KCfromNC]

no reproduction.

If one is applying the reasoning of Karate Cowboy universally then it would apply to any who can't reproduce.

I think you're going to find that looking for consistency in these sorts of arguments is just going to lead to confusion and frustration. Take them for what they are - ad hoc rationalizations for feeling icky about certain types of minorities.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

no reproduction.

If one is applying the reasoning of Karate Cowboy universally then it would apply to any who can't reproduce.

Everyone understands the stages of life. Or used to. Prepubescent young ladies are not aberrant either. They are simply not in the stage for reproduction.

 

[Tiras84]

I think you're going to find that looking for consistency in these sorts of arguments is just going to lead to confusion and frustration. Take them for what they are - ad hoc rationalizations for feeling icky about certain types of minorities.

yeah, I know.