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Futurists vs Preterists

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Willis Deal, Apr 12, 2002.

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  1. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Correction: some have brought the gift of EXCLUSIVITY to the forum, wishing only to have their view on endtimes discussed. Specifically, the premillennial dispensationalists (Hal Lindsey types) do not wish for you all to know that the Church has never agreed with that view and does not agree with that view (by a rather large majority). The premillennial dispensationalists do not want you to know there are FOUR main views on bible prophecy:

    Futurist
    Preterist
    Historicist
    Idealist

    They do not want you to know that there are THREE main traditions concerning the "1000 years" that have been held by great Christians down the centuries:

    Amillennial
    Postmillennial
    Premillennial

    But I will continue to do the service to all by informing and educating so that others can see that MOST of the Church does NOT hold the view of Premillennial Dispensationalism which is a theology that started in the 1800s. Click the following links to learn about ALL the views of bible prophecy:

    Revelation : Four Views : A Parallel Commentary
    by Steve Gregg (Editor), (Hardcover - April 1997)
    Average Customer Review: 4.5 stars out of 5 on Amazon.com
    -- The book is recommended by notables such as Pastor Jack Hayford. Click Link!


    And this next book is a great documentation that agrees with the view of St. Augustine, Eusebius, and John Chrysostom:

    The Great Tribulation -- FREE ONLINE READING!
    by David Chilton
    http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/214e_47e.htm
     
  2. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +608
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    Exactly.

    Maybe I should go to the Catholic forum and shove my beliefs down their throats--NOT!!

    I have yet to understand WHY people who do NOT believe in the end times are here, except to cause strife and confusion. GW says "we are living beyond the end times", an oxymoron! If the preterists believe the end times are OVER, then WHY are they here? This forum is for people who believe we are currently in the end times! :sigh:
     
  3. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Hi Auntie,

    Because there are various topics concerning the End Times, having nothing to do with Preterism, that I can join in agreement with my brothers and sisters in Christ. I can talk about topics other then preterism, Auntie, and I've been doing that since Erwin's request. As a matter of fact, most of my time on Christian forums is not spent on preterism. But that's just me.

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    All of the apostles believed, and in fact taught, that they were living in the "end times"

    Because the apostles could not be in error on this or any issue, I believe they were correct.

    If you know something the aposltes didn't, please share that revelation with us.
     
  5. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
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    Full preterism destroys our hope to be resurrected at Christ's 2nd coming:

    "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming... Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Corinthians 15:22-23, 50-53).

    "In the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage" (Matthew 22:30).

    "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" (Luke 20:36).

    The resurrection has not happened yet. We are still in mortal bodies. We still marry and we still die.

    To say the resurrection has happened is to overthrow our faith and hope:

    "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some" (2 Timothy 2:18).

    "Continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel" (Colossians 1:23).

    "The hope and resurrection of the dead" (Acts 23:6).

    "Hope toward God... that there shall be a resurrection of the dead" (Acts 24:15).

    "We are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it" (Romans 8:24-25).

    "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable" (1 Corinthians 15:19).

    "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

    "It doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 John 3:2-3).

    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead... Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:3, 13).
     
  6. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

    520
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    AuntieBelleum,

    The Catholic forums as the other doctrinal discussion forums are just as argumentative if not even more so than the End-Times forum. Please, how many times do we see pre/post debates where someones Salvation is brought into question because they believe in a pre-trib rapture. I see a real message of hope in the full preterist doctrine that is unique among most endtimes beliefs and that is God is here, now working in our lives and across our country and on every nation on earth. Regardless of whether you feel they are correct or not, that is a consistency in their message.

    By the way i am not a full preterist.
     
  7. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
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    I believe this thread is about full preterists clothing themselves with postmillenialism.

    This thread is about eschatologies of hope, but the full preterists behind it do not have an eschatology of hope regarding the resurrection.

    Notice the signature of one of the preterist posters:

    Proverbs 13:12 "Hope delayed makes the heart sick, but desire fulfilled is a tree of life"

    Does he consider our hope and desire for resurrection to eternal life already fulfilled?

    Notice where he immediately directs us:

    Check out www.preteristarchive.com

    Not a preterist's thread?
     
  8. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Again, it is not a preterist thread. The full-preterists on this thread have already made their position painfully clear in the past, so there is no "clothing". You can't fault a guy for his signature. Please do not troll or gossip.

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
  9. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +608
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    Hello Acts :wave:

    Yes, I have noticed that you state your beliefs fairly, without *shoving*, and that you make posts that have nothing to do with preterism, so that's good.:)

    But some of the preterists see the so called "futurists" as equivalent to believing the earth is flat.:) And seem to be on a crusade to save us from our beliefs!

    The end times forum is for people looking for the return of Jesus. Preterists are here to say Jesus is not returning.

    If there were a forum entitled "Let's talk about God", the purpose of that forum would be to talk about God, and NOT a place for atheists to continually express their unbelief.
     
  10. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Hi Auntie,

    Thank you so much for recognizing the fair, and "unpreterist" content in my posts! I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. :)

    I understood what you wrote and I know how your feeling (I once was as strongly against preterism as you are, and for the same reasons). I think it is reasonable for Christians who hold preterist eschatalogy to discuss certain contemparary end-times issues without muddying the water with preterist doctrine. If threads start heading toward discussing Preterist doctrine then I will leave it (like I did with one of Bulwark's threads).

    We have a great deal more in common then we do differences, and hopefully that can be expressed more often here!

    Thanks,

    Act6:5
     
  11. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +608
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    I have been thinking about going to the Catholic forums because I have two little nieces who are Catholic. As a matter of fact, one of my nieces will receive her first Communion this week. But if I go to the Catholic forums, my reason will be to learn about their beliefs, and CERTAINLY NOT to question their beliefs. It is a matter of respect.
     
  12. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +608
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    Yes! :clap:
     
  13. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    Can you name an endtimes belief that denies God is here, now working in our lives and across our country and on every nation on earth?

    If not, what is the "real message" in the full preterist doctrine that is unique among most endtimes beliefs?
     
  14. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

    +608
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    I see that we are now on page 66. I predict that when we get to page 666, then the end will come.:D Uh, the end of this thread, hopefully! :D


    just/kidding. :)
     
  15. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Funny Gal, funny gal! :) :D :p
     
  16. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

    +9
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    Hi Auntie,
    I don't think the management even realizes how many people this forum has lost. It's almost like a ghost town now. But about your question above, "Why are they here?". I can name that tune in words, CONFUSION and DIVISION. They want to bust up our fellowship.
     
  17. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Please note:

    Catholic Amillennialism, American Postmillennialism, Reconstructionists and preterists all agree that Christ now is the ruler over the earth and has chose to expand his Kingdom rule over every region of the planet via His Church. The 2000 year trend is right on target as the Church is the leading religion and has overthrown most regions of persecution upon the earth.

    These views all have a LONG-TERM view of the reconciliation of the world, understanding that Christ's reign will be established and all nations discipled before Christ will ever consummate the creedal "end of the world." This means that we have a very long way to go and the Church must continue to subdue kingdoms and establish righteousness as Hebrews 11 shows us. The Church is the light of the world, the salt of the earth, and the city on the Hill that is in charge over the earth and the heavens (Matt 16:18-19; Matt 28:18-19).

    Things are not going to get worse and worse. The 20-century trend is all in favor of the dominance of Christianity. The saints must never abdicate its powers or place as the rulers of the earth with Christ and Abraham (Rom 4:14-18).
     
  18. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

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    "Last edited by Phoenix on Today at 06:38 PM
    Why: Bad spellers of the universe untie !!"

    very very funny ROF'L

    *lol*
    :D
     
  19. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    It is also for Christians of any eschatological position who wish to discuss current events.

    Not exactly,

    After A kid gets a bike for his birthday, does he go tell his friends that he isn't getting a bike?

    NO! He shows the bike he HAS to all who wish to see it.

    Does the fact he got the bike he was hoping for destroy his hope for a bike?

    NO! Realized hope is the exact opposite of destroyed hope. you don't hope for what you already have silly. :p

    You can be absolutely certain that Preterists aren't denying the fact of the 2nd coming. To deny that is to deny the Christian faith.

    Preterists simply choose to side with the apostles on it's timing.

    Telling a preterist today that "Jesus will return soon" is like me leaving your house for the store, returning from the store, but waiting to tell you I'll be back from the store soon, after I've already returned.

    How can I "return" if I've already arrived?
     
  20. Hishandmaiden

    Hishandmaiden The Humble Servant Supporter

    +218
    Christian
    Private
    Why not suggest to the admin for another forum about current events, just for preterists?
     
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