Full Preterist Safe House

[A New World]

Actually, the second horseman could represent Roman Catholic kings as a whole who took peace from the earth during the Crusades. And the 3rd horseman is Great Britain and the British Empire which conquered with economics. And the US is clearly the 4th Christian superpower to rule the earth for Jesus. Our weapons bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus.

IMHO, Your theory is just speculation. You have failed to apply the time statements which occur within the book you are trying to interpret. We must attempt to pursue truth through the application of God's Word. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Please consider the following which is an excerpt from the late David Chilton's book, "The Days Of Vengeance, An Exposition of the Book of Revelation."

He points out something I once overlooked. The book of the Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse missing from his gospel.

"R. H. Charles pointed out the close structural similarity between the Six Seals of this chapter (Rev. 6) and the events of the so-called Little Apocalypse recorded in the Synoptic Gospels. As his outline (adapted below) demonstrates, “they present practically the same material.”

R. H. Charles, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Revelation of St. John, 2 vols. (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1920), Vol. 1, p. 158.

Revelation 6
1. War (v. 1-2)
2. International strife (v. 3-4)
3. Famine (v. 5-6)
4. Pestilence (v. 7-8)
5. Persecution (v. 9-11)
6. Earthquake; De-creation (v. 12-17)

Matthew 24
1. Wars (v. 6)
2. International strife (v. 7a)
3. Famines (v. 7b)
4. Earthquakes (v. 7c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13) 6. De-creation (v. 15-31)

Mark 13
1. Wars (v. 7)
2. International strife (v. 8a)
3. Earthquakes (v. 8b)
4. Famines (v. 8c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13)
6. De-creation (v. 14-27)

Luke 21
1. Wars (v. 9)
2. International strife (v. 10)
3. Earthquakes (v. ha)
4. Plagues and famines (v. llb)
5. Persecution (v. 12-19)
6. De-creation (v. 20-27)

[Chilton]"This is very perceptive of Charles, and of the many commentators who have followed his lead. What is astonishing is that they should fail to see St. John’s purpose in presenting “the same material” as the Synoptic writers: to prophesy the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem. While all readily admit that the Little Apocalypse is a prophecy against Israel (see Matt. 23:29-39; 24:1-2, 15-16, 34; Mark 13:2, 14, 30; Luke 21:5-6, 20-24, 32), few seem able to make the obvious connection: The Big Apocalypse is a prophecy against Israel as well!"

The following is from Milton Terry relevant to the current topic, Rev. 6:

“The true interpretation of these first four seals is that which recognizes them as a symbolic representation of the ‘wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes’ which Jesus declared would be ‘the beginning of sorrows’ in the desolation of Jerusalem (Matt. 24:6-7; Luke 21:10- 11, 20). The attempt to identify each separate figure with one specific event misses both the spirit and method of apocalyptic symbolism. The aim is to give a fourfold and most impressive picture of that terrible war on Jerusalem which was destined to avenge the righteous blood of prophets and apostles (Matt. 23:35- 37), and to involve a ‘great tribulation,’ the like of which had never been before (Matt. 24:21). Like the four successive but closely connected swarms of locusts in Joel 1:4; like the four riders on different colored horses in Zechariah 1:8, 18, and the four chariots drawn by as many different colored horses in Zechariah 6:1-8, these four sore judgments of Jehovah move forth at the command of the four living creatures by the Throne to execute the will of Him who declared the ‘scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites’ of His time to be ‘serpents and offspring of vipers,’ and assured them that ‘all these things should come upon this generation’ (Matt. 23:33, 36). The writings of Josephus abundantly show how fearfully all these things were fulfilled in the bloody war of Rome against Jerusalem.”

Milton Terry, Biblical Apocalyptics: A Study of the Most Notable Revelations of God and of Christ in the Canonical Scriptures (New York: Eaton and Mains, 1898), pp. 329f.

This interpretation follows the timeline of John. The events that led up to the war of Rome against Jerusalem occurred within that generation (Mt. 24:34). That age came to an end which is the result of the apocalypse prophesied by John.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by interpreter

Actually, the second horseman could represent Roman Catholic kings as a whole who took peace from the earth during the Crusades. And the 3rd horseman is Great Britain and the British Empire which conquered with economics. And the US is clearly the 4th Christian superpower to rule the earth for Jesus. Our weapons bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus.
​

IMHO, Your theory is just speculation. You have failed to apply the time statements which occur within the book you are trying to interpret. We must attempt to pursue truth through the application of God's Word. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Please consider the following which is an excerpt from the late David Chilton's book, "The Days Of Vengeance, An Exposition of the Book of Revelation."

He points out something I once overlooked. The book of the Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse missing from his gospel.

"R. H. Charles pointed out the close structural similarity between the Six Seals of this chapter (Rev. 6) and the events of the so-called Little Apocalypse recorded in the Synoptic Gospels. As his outline (adapted below) demonstrates, “they present practically the same material.”

R. H. Charles, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Revelation of St. John, 2 vols. (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1920), Vol. 1, p. 158.

Revelation 6
1. War (v. 1-2)
2. International strife (v. 3-4)
3. Famine (v. 5-6)
4. Pestilence (v. 7-8)
5. Persecution (v. 9-11)
6. Earthquake; De-creation (v. 12-17)

Matthew 24
1. Wars (v. 6)
2. International strife (v. 7a)
3. Famines (v. 7b)
4. Earthquakes (v. 7c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13) 6. De-creation (v. 15-31)

Mark 13
1. Wars (v. 7)
2. International strife (v. 8a)
3. Earthquakes (v. 8b)
4. Famines (v. 8c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13)
6. De-creation (v. 14-27)

Luke 21
1. Wars (v. 9)
2. International strife (v. 10)
3. Earthquakes (v. ha)
4. Plagues and famines (v. llb)
5. Persecution (v. 12-19)
6. De-creation (v. 20-27)

[Chilton]"This is very perceptive of Charles, and of the many commentators who have followed his lead. What is astonishing is that they should fail to see St. John’s purpose in presenting “the same material” as the Synoptic writers: to prophesy the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem. While all readily admit that the Little Apocalypse is a prophecy against Israel (see Matt. 23:29-39; 24:1-2, 15-16, 34; Mark 13:2, 14, 30; Luke 21:5-6, 20-24, 32), few seem able to make the obvious connection: The Big Apocalypse is a prophecy against Israel as well!"

The following is from Milton Terry relevant to the current topic, Rev. 6:

“The true interpretation of these first four seals is that which recognizes them as a symbolic representation of the ‘wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes’ which Jesus declared would be ‘the beginning of sorrows’ in the desolation of Jerusalem (Matt. 24:6-7; Luke 21:10- 11, 20).

The attempt to identify each separate figure with one specific event misses both the spirit and method of apocalyptic symbolism. The aim is to give a fourfold and most impressive picture of that terrible war on Jerusalem which was destined to avenge the righteous blood of prophets and apostles (Matt. 23:35- 37), and to involve a ‘great tribulation,’ the like of which had never been before (Matt. 24:21).

Like the four successive but closely connected swarms of locusts in Joel 1:4; like the four riders on different colored horses in Zechariah 1:8, 18, and the four chariots drawn by as many different colored horses in Zechariah 6:1-8, these four sore judgments of Jehovah move forth at the command of the four living creatures by the Throne to execute the will of Him who declared the ‘scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites’ of His time to be ‘serpents and offspring of vipers,’ and assured them that ‘all these things should come upon this generation’ (Matt. 23:33, 36).
The writings of Josephus abundantly show how fearfully all these things were fulfilled in the bloody war of Rome against Jerusalem.”

Milton Terry, Biblical Apocalyptics: A Study of the Most Notable Revelations of God and of Christ in the Canonical Scriptures (New York: Eaton and Mains, 1898), pp. 329f.

This interpretation follows the timeline of John. The events that led up to the war of Rome against Jerusalem occurred within that generation (Mt. 24:34). That age came to an end which is the result of the apocalypse prophesied by John.

Great post.

I still want to have this thread stickied


.

 

[parousia70]

IMHO, Your theory is just speculation. You have failed to apply the time statements which occur within the book you are trying to interpret. We must attempt to pursue truth through the application of God's Word. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Please consider the following which is an excerpt from the late David Chilton's book, "The Days Of Vengeance, An Exposition of the Book of Revelation."

He points out something I once overlooked. The book of the Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse missing from his gospel.

"R. H. Charles pointed out the close structural similarity between the Six Seals of this chapter (Rev. 6) and the events of the so-called Little Apocalypse recorded in the Synoptic Gospels. As his outline (adapted below) demonstrates, “they present practically the same material.”

R. H. Charles, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Revelation of St. John, 2 vols. (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1920), Vol. 1, p. 158.

Revelation 6
1. War (v. 1-2)
2. International strife (v. 3-4)
3. Famine (v. 5-6)
4. Pestilence (v. 7-8)
5. Persecution (v. 9-11)
6. Earthquake; De-creation (v. 12-17)

Matthew 24
1. Wars (v. 6)
2. International strife (v. 7a)
3. Famines (v. 7b)
4. Earthquakes (v. 7c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13) 6. De-creation (v. 15-31)

Mark 13
1. Wars (v. 7)
2. International strife (v. 8a)
3. Earthquakes (v. 8b)
4. Famines (v. 8c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13)
6. De-creation (v. 14-27)

Luke 21
1. Wars (v. 9)
2. International strife (v. 10)
3. Earthquakes (v. ha)
4. Plagues and famines (v. llb)
5. Persecution (v. 12-19)
6. De-creation (v. 20-27)

[Chilton]"This is very perceptive of Charles, and of the many commentators who have followed his lead. What is astonishing is that they should fail to see St. John’s purpose in presenting “the same material” as the Synoptic writers: to prophesy the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem. While all readily admit that the Little Apocalypse is a prophecy against Israel (see Matt. 23:29-39; 24:1-2, 15-16, 34; Mark 13:2, 14, 30; Luke 21:5-6, 20-24, 32), few seem able to make the obvious connection: The Big Apocalypse is a prophecy against Israel as well!"

The following is from Milton Terry relevant to the current topic, Rev. 6:

“The true interpretation of these first four seals is that which recognizes them as a symbolic representation of the ‘wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes’ which Jesus declared would be ‘the beginning of sorrows’ in the desolation of Jerusalem (Matt. 24:6-7; Luke 21:10- 11, 20). The attempt to identify each separate figure with one specific event misses both the spirit and method of apocalyptic symbolism. The aim is to give a fourfold and most impressive picture of that terrible war on Jerusalem which was destined to avenge the righteous blood of prophets and apostles (Matt. 23:35- 37), and to involve a ‘great tribulation,’ the like of which had never been before (Matt. 24:21). Like the four successive but closely connected swarms of locusts in Joel 1:4; like the four riders on different colored horses in Zechariah 1:8, 18, and the four chariots drawn by as many different colored horses in Zechariah 6:1-8, these four sore judgments of Jehovah move forth at the command of the four living creatures by the Throne to execute the will of Him who declared the ‘scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites’ of His time to be ‘serpents and offspring of vipers,’ and assured them that ‘all these things should come upon this generation’ (Matt. 23:33, 36). The writings of Josephus abundantly show how fearfully all these things were fulfilled in the bloody war of Rome against Jerusalem.”

Milton Terry, Biblical Apocalyptics: A Study of the Most Notable Revelations of God and of Christ in the Canonical Scriptures (New York: Eaton and Mains, 1898), pp. 329f.

This interpretation follows the timeline of John. The events that led up to the war of Rome against Jerusalem occurred within that generation (Mt. 24:34). That age came to an end which is the result of the apocalypse prophesied by John.

Noted Catholic Lay Theologian Dr Scott Hahn also points out this fact (Rev is Johns Olivet)... he was the first to bring it to my attention almost 20 years ago.

Catholics Hahn and also James Aiken are uber preterists, though like me not quite "full", however, they both acknowledge that relying on scripture alone for Eschatological evidence would necessitate a FP position.

 

[Notrash]

Leviticus 26:14-20 'But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments, 15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant, 16 I also will do this to you: I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies. Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you. 18 'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19 I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.

God warns Israel that she must listen and obey Him in the commandments that He has given them. God uses various terms and expressions in describing what it will be like if they despise His statutes, but notice particularly verse 19: "and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass."

Notice how the character of Israel's disposition in God's view is personalized, "YOUR heaven" and "YOUR earth." So the terms "heaven" and "earth" belong or relate to Israel, they evidently constitute a "heaven" and "earth."

Isaiah 1:1-2 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me;

Who is God speaking to here the physical creation? No, he is speaking to Israel.

Isaiah 51:15-16 But I am the LORD your God, Who divided the sea whose waves roared; The LORD of hosts is His name. 16 And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, 'You are My people.'"

The time of planting the heavens and laying the foundation of the earth that is referred to here, was performed by God when He divided the sea (ver. 15) and gave the law (ver. 16), and said to Zion, Thou art my people; that is, when He took the children of Israel out of Egypt, and formed them in the wilderness into a covenant nation. He planted the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth: that is, brought forth the order, and government of Israel.

Thanks for the Leviticus reference on this issue. It adds a lot including the idea of God ruling the "new heavens" and earth with a "Rod" of iron.....meaning of an absolute law of faith.

See also Ps 102 for additional support of heavens and earth referring to new ordinances and domain of an administration.

Ps 102:18
This will be written for the generation to come,
That a people yet to be created may praise the Lord.
[people of the new covenant]

19
For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary;
From heaven the Lord viewed the earth,

20
To hear the groaning of the prisoner,
To release those appointed to death,

21
To declare the name of the Lord in Zion,
And His praise in Jerusalem,
22
When the peoples are gathered together,
And the kingdoms, to serve the Lord.
23
He weakened my strength in the way;
He shortened my days.

24
I said, “O my God,
Do not take me away in the midst of my days;
Your years are throughout all generations.

25
Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

26
They will perish, but You will endure;
Yes, they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will change them,
And they will be changed.

27
But You are the same,
And Your years will have no end.

28
The children of Your servants will continue,
And their descendants will be established before You.”

See also Job 38:33.

33
Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth?

Thanks to all supporting full preterists and God lovers.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Noted Catholic Lay Theologian Dr Scott Hahn also points out this fact (Rev is Johns Olivet)... he was the first to bring it to my attention almost 20 years ago.

Catholics Hahn and also James Aiken are uber preterists, though like me not quite "full", however, they both acknowledge that relying on scripture alone for Eschatological evidence would necessitate a FP position.

Good info and thanks.

If I am not mistaken, the RCC is of the Preterist view.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/h/hahn-scott.html

Scott Hahn, Ph.D.
Founder, President and Chairman of the Board of The St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology​

Dr. Scott Hahn, Founder, President and Chairman of the Board of The St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology, is one of the world's most successful Catholic authors and teachers.

He earned his Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Marquette University, writing his dissertation on “Kinship by Covenant: A Biblical Theological Analysis of Covenant Types and Texts in the Old and New Testaments.” His scholarly writing has appeared in Journal of Biblical Literature, Catholic Biblical Quarterly, and Currents in Biblical Research.

Jerusalem, it seems, is on trial. God appears as judge (20:11), assisted by angels who sit on twenty thrones (20:4). Throughout the Apocalypse, angels execute the sentence, too. precipitating the destruction of Jerusalem, along with its inhabitants and its Temple. John portrays this event in terms of a terrible Passover. Seven angels pour out the chalices of God's wrath, which issue in seven plagues.

The emptying of the chalices (sometimes rendered "cups" or "bowls") is a liturgical action, a libation poured out upon the earth, as wine was poured upon ancient Israel's altar. In light of the Passover's fulfillment in the Eucharist, this imagery becomes all the more striking. The plagues take place in chapters 15-17 within a liturgical selling: the angels appear with harps, vested as priests in the heavenly Temple, singing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb (ch. 15).
This liturgy means death to God's enemies, yet salvation to His Church. Thus, the angels cry:

"For men have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. It is their due!" (Rev 16:6).

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Btw, may I ask what your own eschatological view is concerning the end time? That way I would know better where you stand.
​

I believe that Matthew 24:29-31 is yet future.

So you view Matt 24:1-28 as fulfilled?

How much of Revelation do you view as fulfilled? [the Amills view chapt 1 thru 19 of Revelation as fulfilled]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7276015/
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yall are correct that it cannot be a "safe house" for an unorthodox view

It is a correct forum for discussing but cannot preclude those opposing it

So I will shelve my idea of "no other ideas" and just regroup.

Other eschatologies have safe houses in GT end times - but the UT area is different

so I will keep reading about Full Preterism but drop other expectations

This thread should be set up like this one over on the Futurist Eschatology board
[I would also like to see this FP Safe House thread stickied, as this other one is on the Eschatology board.]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7739028-17/
The Partial Preterist Non-Pre-Mid-Trib-Post-Trib Rapture Believers Safe House

I'm starting a safe house for Partial Preterist eschatology since there isn't one yet. Feel free to post all your Partial Preterism studies or reflections here.

No Dispensationalism. No Darbyites. No Post, Mid, or Pre-trib anything. In fact, let's just not even use the word 'Trib' here please. It's as sickening as people who say 'devo' for Devotional. This is a Partial Preterist safe house. This is not a Full Preterist safe house, however. Do not confuse Partial Preterism (Historical Preterism) is Full Preterism (Hyper-Preterism).

The Lady Elect who dwells in the midst of Babylon, along with all her children, bids you welcome.

Members who chose to participate in this safe house should be partial preterists. This thread is for discussing end time events and prophecy (Biblical) from a partial preterists point of view. Fellowship posts from all members are welcome.

• This safe house thread is for those members who believe in the partial preterism.

• The safe house is for discussion and not for debate. Debate is defined as: "Engaging in argument by discussing opposing points."

• If a topic turns into a debate then staff will split the debate off into a new thread.

• Members who do not believe in partial preterism may post in fellowship only.

• No posts from this safe house may be quoted in other threads or used to start discussion threads in the main Eschatology forum.

.

and thus prevent a thread from being closed like this other Preterist thread was:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2367396/
Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

MOD HAT

WOW, the amount of flaming going on in this thread is amazing.


This thread is being closed for staff review.


The rules include this one:

 

[A New World]

Noted Catholic Lay Theologian Dr Scott Hahn also points out this fact (Rev is Johns Olivet)... he was the first to bring it to my attention almost 20 years ago.

Catholics Hahn and also James Aiken are uber preterists, though like me not quite "full", however, they both acknowledge that relying on scripture alone for Eschatological evidence would necessitate a FP position.

That's quite an acknowledgment by these two men! When I finally decided to rely on Scripture alone as evidence that's when I became a Full Preterist. Many try to "muddy the water" by diverting our attention away from Scripture and onto their version of truth. I've found that relying on Scripture for truth makes the most sense since it's the only completely reliable source for the believer.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by parousia70

Noted Catholic Lay Theologian Dr Scott Hahn also points out this fact (Rev is Johns Olivet)... he was the first to bring it to my attention almost 20 years ago.

Catholics Hahn and also James Aiken are uber preterists, though like me not quite "full", however, they both acknowledge that relying on scripture alone for Eschatological evidence would necessitate a FP position.
​

That's quite an acknowledgment by these two men! When I finally decided to rely on Scripture alone as evidence that's when I became a Full Preterist.
Many try to "muddy the water" by diverting our attention away from Scripture and onto their version of truth. I've found that relying on Scripture for truth makes the most sense since it's the only completely reliable source for the believer.

Excellent!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7322018-101/#post49814322
Is SOLO Scriptura Scriptural?

The term "Solo Scriptura" was brought up on another thread in conjunction with "Sola Scriptura".
My own definition and view of "Solo" implies Scripture only and not going outside of what is Written while "Sola" means subscribing to both what has been Written and the Oral "traditions" of the ECFs and others that claim they were orally taught by the Apostles themselves.
So I would like to here from other Christians of all denominations on how they view the difference and I would like to quote a verse from Paul:

Nice distinction and great quote support there lambo!

People often mistake 'sola' Word/scripture as ALL the scriptures. It is a FACT that Gods Words are PRE-EMMINENT above everyone else's is it not?

That would be THE LAW and THE PROPHETS where those same spoke AS GOD...through those men, and no, we did NOT need the RCC to round up the Old Testament. The Words of Jesus BROUGHT Grace and Truth to THOSE WORDS of God...and the events themselves as well.

All the 'other words' though 'inspired' are NOT direct Words of God. The Law, the Prophets, the Words of Jesus...these are the scriptures in their 'truest' sense. Everyone else's words take A BACK SEAT to the PRIMARY just as Paul notes in your citing.

We see what happened when groups of MEN started relying on their own words don't we? The power of God comes upon them to SEPARATE them because of their CONFUSIONS that they carry within and this TOO is a working of SOLO SCRIPTURA.

enjoy!

squint

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic

Let me start...

How do we know what books to use as scripture?
​

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Well we do know the book of Isaiah belongs in it as JESUS quoted from it.

Y@sha`yah 61:1 "A spirit of my-Lord YHWH upon me, because YHWH anoints me to bear-tidings of humble-ones, he sends me to bind up of to ones being broken of heart, to call of to ones being taken captive, liberty, and to ones being bound freedom
2 To call of Year of acceptance/07522 ratsown for YHWH, and a Day of Vengeance for our Elohiym to comfort all of mourning ones.

Luke 4:18 A spirit of LORD upon Me which, on account of, He anoints Me to well-messagize to poor-ones,
19 To proclaim Year of Lord acceptable.
21 He begins to say yet toward them "that today has been ful-filled the Writing, this, in the ears of ye".
​

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic

Did Jesus quote from Revelation?
​

 

[A New World]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7322018-101/#post49814322
Is SOLO Scriptura Scriptural?

There are also some who refuse to accept Paul's epistles as Scripture. However, it appears that Peter isn't among them:

"Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures." (II Peter‬ 3‬:14-16‬ NKJV)

 

[A New World]

and thus prevent a thread from being closed like this other Preterist thread was:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2367396/
Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

I noticed that LLOJ. What are the chances that it will be re-opened?

 

[Evergreen48]

This thread should be set up like this one over on the Futurist Eschatology board
[I would also like to see this FP Safe House thread stickied, as this other one is on the Eschatology board.]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7739028-17/
The Partial Preterist Non-Pre-Mid-Trib-Post-Trib Rapture Believers Safe House


and thus prevent a thread from being closed like this other Preterist thread was:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2367396/
Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

Maybe I missed something , but I didn't really see that much flaming and such going on in that thread. What there was of it seemed to come from just one poster, mainly. I keep wondering why the the poster that was doing the most of it wasn't warned or reprimanded and the thread could have been left open. But that just my opinion.

 

[Copenator]

I have addressed this in the other preterist thread but here it is again. Two translations of Isa 51:6 by native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars, 100 to 250 years before Christ. Neither translation shows that God is calling Israel "heaven" and "earth."

LXX Isa 51:16 I will put my words into thy mouth, and I will shelter thee under the shadow of mine hand, with which I fixed the sky, and founded the earth: and the Lord shall say to Sion, Thou art my people.

Targum Isa 51:16 1 have put the words of my prophecy in thy mouth, and with the shadow of my power have I protected thee, to raise up the nation, concerning which it hath been promised that they shall be as many as the stars of heaven, and to establish the congregation it has been promised concerning them, that they shall multiply like the dust of the earth, and to say to the inhabitants of Zion, they are my people.​

I am a novice in this discussion, but weren't the Jews that murdered Jesus native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars that were looking for the wrong NATURE of the KINGDOM He was offering them? It seems quite clear to me that the Jews of the first century (and before) didn't understand the nature of what was to come.

Their interpretation is all but irrelevant to me personally. I have a hard time taking the word of Jewish leaders over the inspired text. The NT authors were the inspired interpreters of the OT, not the Jewish leaders that may have had their own personal agenda.

Have the Heavens and Earth passed away?

Thanks for your time Der Alter,
Copenator

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

and thus prevent a thread from being closed like this other Preterist thread was:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2367396/
Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?
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​

I noticed that LLOJ.
What are the chances that it will be re-opened?

It probably depends on how much clean up the Mods have to do.


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[LittleLambofJesus]

I just found this old thread concerning testimonials of why Christians turned to Preterism. Perhap we should start one since this one is closed......

http://www.christianforums.com/t15138-48/
How I came to embrace Preterism.

How I came to embrace Preterism.


I would like to share with you how I came to embrace Preterism. You know how we are always hearing about the rapture and the end of the world coming on the television and radio programs. Well I was a futurist also and spent my time at night, listening to them preach on this subject over the radio.

One night while I was listening to them on the radio I fell into a deep sleep. While I was sleeping I started to feel as though I was on fire, and running a very high temperature, but yet I was still asleep.

Then I heard a voice from what I assumed to be the radio saying, "we are not living in the last days, Jesus has come."

As I begin to awake, I suddenly realized that I had also been crying in my sleep and found myself chanting over and over again "I love you Jesus." My pillow was soaking wet as though someone had saturated it with a bucket of water. All this happened between 1 and 2 AM.

The next night, I listened to the very same radio station but never heard anything like that again. From that point on it seemed like God had burned something deep within my soul forever. I would come home from work, spending hours studying. I even stayed in the house all weekend, closely examining the Bible. Studying the Bible almost become a obsession to me. It was like taking a drink of the clear water of life that proceeds from the throne of God and I could not stop drinking it.

I must admit that at first I really struggled, questioning if what I now saw in the Bible was really true. But as God promised, the more I looked for Him the more truth I found.

Many things fell into place like never before, and the Bible seemed to come alive. God opened my eyes to see who the New Testament letters were written to and why. I began, to understand the key to any passage of Scripture is a careful study into the language, culture, politics, and the historical setting in which it was originally written.

Rich nuggets of truth came forth from my daily studies in the book of Hebrews. As I studied, I learned that it takes the "cross, resurrection, and return of Christ" to complete our salvation. I learned to see things from God's perspective and not mans, that Death, to God, means to be separated from Him.

Spiritual Death is an enemy because it keeps people from God. God loved man and desired to be with him and be his God. This was not possible until Jesus Christ returned and removed the Old Covenant. God’s light and truth lead me to His holy hill and to His dwelling.

I could see more clearly than ever the face of God. God dwells in me like the Old Testament promised and I dwell in His glory because of the completed work of Christ. It is like the writer of Hebrews says we can now enter the Holiest by the blood of Christ (Hebrews 10:19).

I never pray anymore "dear Lord in heaven," for God now dwells-tabernacles within me. I am glad to call myself a preterist because if it were not for God opening my eyes, I would not be one today.

 

[A New World]

I just found this old thread concerning testimonials of why Christians turned to Preterism. Perhap we should start one since this one is closed......

http://www.christianforums.com/t15138-48/
How I came to embrace Preterism.

The testimonials on the above thread are interesting. Maybe we should start a new thread...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I just found this old thread concerning testimonials of why Christians turned to Preterism. Perhap we should start one since this one is closed......

http://www.christianforums.com/t15138-48/
How I came to embrace Preterism.
​

The testimonials on the above thread are interesting.
Maybe we should start a new thread...

You first




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[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
and thus prevent a thread from being closed like this other Preterist thread was:

Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?
Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

I noticed that LLOJ. What are the chances that it will be re-opened?

Probably slim to none, especially since it was started in 2005
Much like this one

How I came to embrace Preterism.
How I came to embrace Preterism.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All who were at Nicea were elect and only these were at Nicea? Were there any resurrected beings at Nicea?

Any one want some Pret-corn? The kernels all popped in AD312.

I'll take a bucket full......
Some say the RCC was born the next year after his conversion. Interesting if true.....

Constantine and christianity : 312

Constantine became the emperor of Rome in 306, and was the most powerful person in his part of the world.
His conversion to Christianity had far reaching effects on the common practice of the religion and on all the factions of Christianity that are present today.......
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as close as possible. From 312-320 Constantine was tolerant of paganism, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with his subjects, possibly indicating that he never understood the theology of Christianity.
http://clf.uua.org/betweensundays/mi...nHeritage.html
.......But the simple, humble Christian church was soon to undergo radical change.
In 313 AD the Emperor of Rome, Constantine, declared himself to be a Christian. Although Constantine originally called for religious freedom, power corrupted that ideal, and soon Christianity became an absolute spiritual monarchy, with the pope as spiritual leader. The Roman Catholic Church was born.
Church organization and government became hierarchical and complex with strict laws and creedal statements which church members were required to believe

.........................................

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Most full preterist doctrines I've read of hold total prophetic fulfillment to have taken place with the destruction of Jerusalem. However, a much more plausible (IMHO) such theory has the Crucifixion itself stand for the end (as in the point at which the final outcome is decided) of time.
I don't recall off the top of my head the name of the book arguing for this conclusion, but it's something like The Cross at a Distance: Atonement in the Gospel of Mark.

Great post and a view I have not seen until now.
I decided to take that and put a few verses up, as much in chronological order as I could, and came up with this.

John 17:11
And not still I-am in the world, and these in the world are,
and I toward Thee am coming........

Luke 23:46
and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said "Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;'
and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit".

Reve 12:5 .......
and was caught-away the Child of her toward GOD and His throne.

Reve 1:18
and the living One! And I became dead, and behold! I am living into the Ages of the Ages,...

How do others view "the mystery of God" in Reve 10:7?

Revelation 10:7
But in the Days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when-ever he may be being about to be Trumpeting, also is finished the Mystery of GOD,
as He brings good-news to His bond-servants, the prophets.