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Featured Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    47.6%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. I am not sure but I am looking into this.

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    One of the reasons why back in 1990 I decided that the "Soul Sleep" doctrine must be incorrect was because a good friend of mine, although they were members of the same church that I was in, reported having had many out of the body experiences while they were younger.

    He, like me, loved the Soul Sleep theory because it sounded more humane than an ever burning hell........ but once I read the near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie I soon clued that there was no way that our Soul Sleep doctrine could be accurate in the light of both scriptures on the topic..... plus NDE accounts that sounded so much like II Corinthians 12:2-4.
     
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dr. George Ritchie, way back in 1943 gave a description of what was happening in five dimensional space time, sixth, seventh and..... eighth or ninth.

    I think this is the summary of what sure sounded like eighth or ninth dimensional space - time.

    .near-death.com/science/research/city-of-light.html#a02


     
  3. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    I have been collecting books on NDE and other heavenly experiences for over 20 years.

    People often regard it as a modern fad despite the fact that it has actually been happening since Adam. The difference today is mass publishing, whether on paper, TV or internet, such things can be disseminated far more easily.

    I have read several such books dating back to the Victorian era, and they are truly amazing detailed testimonies.

    Sadly, many derogatory accusations have been made about such stories, including deception, or even worse, demonic/Satanic deception.
    What people seem to forget is that some of the worst deceptions in the church have historically come via bible scholarship, from those who claim to be the bastion of truth!

    Whatever the source of testimony, wisdom and discernment must be applied, rather than a blanket condemnation when something doesn't match your current theological experience!
     
  4. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    You know, that just may be about your mom and your wife. I've suspected as much before and also the possibility that the Lord may take one persons suffering or pain and put it (or a portion of it) on another to ease the suffering of one. I prayed for the Lord to ease someone's suffering before...and my own pain level seemed to increase that day. (Messed up back)

    We're promised to suffer in scripture, so that we can share in His glory...Soo...maybe He spreads the suffering around to this end?
     
  5. GUANO

    GUANO Active Member

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    I died 3 times and had a different experience. Anyways, your right. I guess we will just have to wait and see if we are resurrected from the dead or if we end up in some kind of dreamlike afterlife. We will all find out eventually.
     
  6. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Male and female were created at the same time and both their names were Adam.....e.g Mankind. Feel free to use your mind to logically reason things out. I have found that the wisdom of man is foolishness to God. When we are done believe we know the truth, we will go to God and Know the truth and be set free... Until then, I see no fault in you believing what you feel as logical.

    "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    The dreamlike state seems to be reported very often as one of the first parts of even some of the complex near death experiences.

    It seems to be what happens when we review our lives and go off into a guilt trip. The two words.....:If only".... are known to psychiatrists to be dangerous indeed.

    Many Christian near death experiencers find out that it is critical to know that we are saved by grace....... not by how much we give or how many people we lead to God.


    John 3:19

    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  8. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Your scripture is quoted out of its full context, therefore your conclusion is wrong!

    Genesis2v7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

    Between God first creating Adam, and then later on removing one of his ribs to create Eve, there was obviously a period of time.
    Various things happened in that period of time.-

    Genesis2v15. Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16. The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17. but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

    Take note that the above passage was about Adam, as Eve was not yet created.
    Then this.-

    Gen2v18. Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

    God states that he will (future) make a helper for him.

    v19. Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. v20. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.

    Naturally Adam was not interested in any of the animals as his helper! So God then does what he previously promised to do.-

    v21. So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. v22. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.

    So clearly as the woman was created from existing parts of the man, they could not have been created at the same time.

    v21.The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh;
    She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”


    Its quite obvious from scripture that Eve was made entirely from Adam, who was made from the earth.
    As Adam was made alive by the breath of God, it is not unreasonable to believe that Eve was made alive by a slice of that same breath, just as her flesh is a slice of his flesh.

    My original point on this being that every child born has a human spirit that descends from Adam, rather than as some suppose, that God creates a new human spirit for each new birth.
     
  9. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    You are very wise...as man accounts wisdom. There is nothing obvious, natural or logical(as man views logic) in scripture. Adam and Eve are two parts of the same person. For this cause shall man leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife and the two shall become one flesh......again.

    Until you are ready to move passed the words on the pages, further conversation would be fruitless. The story is Good, the the message is even Greater.... yea, Eternal life.
     
  10. Red Sky at Morning

    Red Sky at Morning New Member

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    I am currently listening to "Heaven" by Randy Alcorn. I think you and I are in agreement with him!
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Google books allows me to take a peek inside..... This looks great........
    There sure are lots of misconceptions about heaven:

    Heaven

     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  12. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Do you really think making such put downs elevates your own wisdom?
    1Cor2v14But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them, because spiritually they are discerned.
    This scripture is the basis of my posts.
    I never disputed that fact.
    My explanations make it clear that Eve's body was created out of Adam's body. I was just emphasising that the same is true for her human spirit.
    I'm not quite sure how this adds to the discussion.
    You need to explain this a little clearer for it to have value.
     
  13. Kit Sigmon

    Kit Sigmon Well-Known Member

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    The book Heaven is Real was based on Todd Burpo's account
    and professional writer Lynn Vincent that assisted Todd Burpo
    on writing the book...which came seven years after little
    Colton's account of going to heaven.

    Also, in the months and years that lead up to the book, his parents
    be asking him questions and the poor child was coming up with more
    stuff to please them and the story goes on and on.
    [He's a minister's son and has heard children't bible stories and such
    from his parents and in church...it's not hard to see how more got added
    to the his story of going to heaven as time went on and the child be
    growing up...his memories and dreams will mesh together and to him
    it's like, hey I remember this from when I went to heaven.]

    The movie shows he coded/or flatlined but that didn't happen in real
    life...the child was very sick following the second surgery on March 17th,
    and the family and the church prayed for Colton and then on March 18th
    Colton's bowels began functioning properly and he rapidly improved and he
    was happy and playing in his hospital room and the very next day(March 19th)
    he was released from the hospital...and it's two months until his birthday on
    May 19th.
    All this be real good news and thank the Lord for it!

    What get's me is this exploiting of the child and his stories for profit, lots of money being made off what the Lord done for them for free...why they selling out?
    the bills were paid by family, community and church members who all came together to help out the Burpo family.

    Now the Burpo's make lots of money... Lynn Vincent got lots of money, the publisher making money off this and also the Hollywood movie makers making money...it only cost 12 million to make the movie and it alone has made well over 100 million dollars and counting!
    sadly you'd be hard pressed to find much gospel an or sound preaching in the movie.

    While all the above makes for a best selling book and a hit movie, sadly it waters down the gospel and that needs to stop!

    So, I'd show friends the what the Word of God says not what the book Heaven is Real is selling...read it if you want but believe and trust the Word of God just like the saints and martyr's have for thousands of years.
     
  14. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    I get the impression you didn't read the book, or alternatively you didn't take note of what it actually said before rejecting it.
    Basically, with your closing statement repeated below, you have just declared all personal and experiential testimony as worthless.
    "So, I'd show friends the what the Word of God says not what the book Heaven is Real is selling...read it if you want but believe and trust the Word of God just like the saints and martyr's have for thousands of years."
     
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  15. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I dont related these stories and movies to the bible or the worship of God. I see nothing wrong with it. I say, if people keep buying, they should continue to sell it. Their story makes a lot of people feel good, and they are being paid for their service......it cant be all bad.
     
  16. Red Sky at Morning

    Red Sky at Morning New Member

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    I read the book and I watched the film. Whilst the film was OK, if I had not read the book I could have come to the same conclusions as those who disliked the account.

    Key details are missing from the film, which means it provides a more dilute and confused message than the actual story Imo.
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Aha yes.... that does make sense!

    Pastor Bob Jones said that all five senses are operational in the out of the body state but............ vastly more powerful than while we are in this body!

     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I totally agree......
    my old church the Worldwide Church of God had a lot of things right and I am so glad that
    they knew how to mentor me out of Atheism......
    but we had an elaborate interpretations of many scriptures that
    to us indicated "Soul Sleep" but the testimony of Dr. George Ritchie
    caused me to remember those verses in II Corinthians 12 which forced me to
    begin to ask better questions.


    Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Yes.... I am so glad that I read the book first even before seeing the movie.

    The book is extremely well done! I absolutely loved reading about how little Colton met King David, Samson, John the Baptist, Mary the mother of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as well as many pets and animals in heaven.

    Lots of theologians who study the Bible for decades are unsure of or even unaware of how some types of angels looking like animals.... such as horses. So Colton meeting lots of pets in heaven should not surprise a well informed Christian.

    Psalms 18:10 "And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind."

    Revelations 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

    These verses make me wonder if some Cherubs can be in the form of a horse or other animal?
     
  20. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I also "suspect" that...our imagination, is actually a spiritual sense. We just don't now how to use it properly and have been taught that it's only your imagination, not real. Uhh, I doubt it.

    It may be some sort of doorway for us enter beyond the veil. (not saying that Jesus isn't the door!). But think about how it's used.

    A man wants to build something say. He enters into his imagination (spirit realm) goes there, receives pictures of it, takes those pictures back into the natural realm, draws it up, figures out the dimensions, and builds it. Ta-da, I invented and made a chair! Or whatever.

    Maybe.
     
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