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Featured Friends of yours watch Heaven Is For Real and ask you about it?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    45.8%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    45.8%
  3. I am not sure but I am looking into this.

    2 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    Really. Huh. I almost didn't write that...a little uneasy about it. When it happens, it's usually more towards suffering and pain rather like say love...

    Is that your wife's experience with it also?
     
  2. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    My first experience with a NDE was 1971 a soldier who had been wounded in Viet Nam. I did not say so at the time but I was very skeptical. Between then and now I heard of but never paid much attention to NDEs. Fast forward to 2009. Drs advised me to have an umbilical hernia repaired. They said it would be a 45 minute laparoscopic. No problem they said. Go home the same day they said. They encountered problems from 3 previous surgeries. The 45 minutes became about 5 hours. During surgery I had acute kidney failure, a-fibrillation, sepsis [major infection] and ileus [bowel blockage]. Since then I am no longer skeptical about NDEs. I saw the movie "Heaven is for real." then read the book. I don't doubt it.
     
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  3. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    God refused to let the devil preserve the body of Moses because He wanted our faith to be in His Word and not in relics. Yet we are encouraged by some in the church to believe that God preserved the Shroud of Turin for us to venerate and to encourage our "faith".

    I find it interesting that the apostle Paul was not permitted to tell of the inexpressible things he saw when caught up to Heaven - and the Apostle Paul would be a much more credible witness by far then Colin Burpo.

    Now we are to believe that God has changed His mind in these last days and decided to use the dubious testimony of a little boy and a shaky faith father who's pushing the narrative to do what He was unwilling to do through the angel Micheal or the Apostle Paul.

    This - in spite of the fact that, in the movie, Heaven is apparently a place of great comfort and beauty where most everyone automatically goes—at least, there seems to be no suggestion to the contrary.

    Most importantly of course - the story and the movie in no way convict people of their sins and tell us of God's requirement to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as our hope of salvation or be lost.

    Time would fail us if I talked about winged humans, the angel Gabriel and magical horses.

    One way to look at this thing for me is that, if God has had second thoughts about using special visions and such to get the Word of God out to the public, He certainly could have done better then this weak theology ridden milk toast book and movie.

    Another way to look at it is to state bluntly that this kind of catch all, everyone goes to Heaven, it's all OK, there's not judgment to come, universalist, spiritually immature, baby "pablum" is actually the work of the devil and should be avoided like the plague.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  4. GUANO

    GUANO Well-Known Member

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    I believe that he probably experienced what he said, but why would that make him a credible witness of the afterlife, or how would that even prove that there is an afterlife?
     
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  5. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    The fact that some fools venerate idols or shrouds is utterly irrelevant to this thread.
    I doubt that Paul was not permitted by God to speak, but by his own inability at that time to express it effectively.
    Marvin, your argument is back to front and completely illogical.
    Considering all the prophetic descriptions of heaven already given in the OT, it would have required God to change his mind before he could command Paul to remain silent.
    It would then also require God to change his mind back again before the book of Revelation could be written.
     
  6. Divide

    Divide Well-Known Member

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    The devil didn't want to preserve Moses body. He wanted it so one or more of his minions could use it, possess it. It was in great shape. Moses spent so much time in the presence of God, that it...rubbed off on him! Regenerating his body. He came back down the mountain glowing from being in the presence of God. Had to veil his face because it scared the people.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Wow!!!!!

    Thank you for this confirmation Der Alter!
     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    My mom had terrible rheumatoid arthritis since she was 35, around the time I was born.

    My wife took care of my mom for several years toward the end of her life.

    On at least one occasion God allowed my wife to feel a taste of sympathetic pain in some of her joints.... I assume that this was to increase the fervor of my wife's prayers for the total healing for her mother in law????

    Note... my wife technically was near death during her second pregnancy from her first marriage. She remembers nothing..... but about seventy percent or more of people who have a brush with death do remember nothing.... but even they often begin to have the same spiritual gifts that full fledged near death experiencer who remember what happened also report.......
     
  9. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I believe this child saw what he saw. I dont, however, believe it has any significance to anyone outside of him and his family.

    Do you believe that there are spirit who go straight to heaven without having to go through the temptations of Earth, while others are born in undesirable conditions, fall to temptation and then burn in "Hell" for it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Although you and I are on two very different pages at this time I do thank you for your reply.......
    you are doing an excellent job of expressing doubts that i went through myself for a time after beginning to study these accounts.

    Yes..... at this time in history God is using........ the fact that medical science can now take many people back from the dead....... to spread the gospel in ways that have not happened since the time of Lazarus.... who was resurrected after being dead for four days.



    Almost all three year olds.......
    going into heaven is a very different scenario than almost all adults going into heaven.

    Pastor Bob Jones, being an adult at the time of his near death experience... .was shown other parts of the full picture that would have been inappropriate for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to show to a child.


     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Yes..... I do personally believe that aborted children have a soul that goes straight to heaven.... while other children are born...... get tempted..... and stray off and end up in hell or a place that a Roman Catholic might term purgatory?!

    This is a troubling question........
    I must admit.

    I recommend the near death experience accounts of Ms. Ariela Solsol Pereira, chapter 10 if I remember correctly..... for much more information on what happens to the souls of children who are aborted.


    Near death experiences and ABORTION.
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Prove..... is a rather strong word.......
    evidence is a weaker word..... .but evidence is useful and if
    a movie was ever made about a proposed court case that attempts to
    present something resembling a case for an afterlife........
    I personally would love to see Mr. Colton Burpo called to the witness stand!
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Around the one minute mark in this video Pastor Bob Jones
    makes the statement that there are seven levels in heaven.

    To my thinking.... this sure seems to correspond with what I have read
    of String Theory because some awfully intelligent Theoretical Physicists have
    written up their ideas in language that a reasonably capable grade 5 student
    could handle.

    You and I can view four dimensions of space and time. Three dimensional objects
    and time.

    String Theory, specifically M-Theory implies eleven dimensions of space - time which sure sounds like what
    Pastor Bob Jones states. (I personally have leanings toward Bosonic String Theory with its 26 or more dimensions).




     
  14. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Only troubling if your view is correct. Would you say that this is just? Or is this a topic which is dismissed with the phrase "Gods ways are not our ways?" or "God can do what He wants?"

    Also The Bible states that God created man in his image and said it was good on the Sixth day. Do you believe that He finished creating man on that day, or are we still in the sixth day of creations....e.g. Is God still creating man with every child born, or was that completed in the beginning? This is significant because this account assumes that the child in heaven was created at conception and then went to heaven..
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    No........ on the surface this does not seem just or fair.

    I am not dismissing this subject at all.....and I am attracted to
    the relatively new Multiverse Theory that I personally suspect could fit perfectly with
    Ezekiel chapter 37.

    Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.
     
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  16. Deadworm

    Deadworm Well-Known Member

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    The verifications provided by many NDEs make them superior evidence for Heaven than NT resurrection testimonies. Of course Jesus' Resurrection is far more important. But the connections with apostolic eyewitness testimony are disputed by scholars and must therefore be accepted by faith. Paul's account is the exception, but is dismissed by skeptics as a hallucination.
    In modern NDEs, the patient often encounters discarnate relatives that he either didn't know existed (e. g. Colton's recognition of his sister, who died in his mother's womb) or didn't know had died. Also, NDErs often observe events that they could have no way of knowing, apart from being out of body. And try googling "shared death experiences," during which friends and family members at the hospital bedside share their loved one's NDE, even their past life review and encounter with the Being of Light! And of course, the whole NDE is bathed in pure unconditional love. If such experiences are not credible, neither is Jesus' resurrection. But, praise God, they are credible and therefore provide glorious support to the credibility of Jesus' resurrection in the process.

    Of course, in Colton's case, God communicates through anthropomorphic symbolism to make his NDE understandable to a 3-year old. But then the biblical books of Ezekiel and Revelation are full of visionary symbolism expressing heavenly realms.
     
  17. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    God created Adam, and from Adam all mankind descends, and that includes Eve.
    I have heard many times that all human spirits are either freshly created by God for each body, or they were created at the beginning and have been waiting in heaven to receive their assigned body.
    To me that is utter nonsense.

    Adam's physical body was divided to create Eve from his side. Likewise, I believe that Adam's human spirit was also divided to give Eve her human spirit.
    (You will note that God breathed into Adam and he became a living soul, but no such statement is made for Eve.)

    Therefore, just as our children are physically formed by DNA from both parents, it is also logic that their human spirit is formed from the human spirit of both parents. ie. spiritual DNA.

    And yes, an aborted or still born child ascends to the Father because God is just.
     
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  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Wow! I am seriously impressed how such an obviously astonishingly well informed Christian could choose to term themselves....... "Deadworm."

    You were very humble when you chose your name here.... and your humility has obvious been rewarded with spiritual riches.

    Proverbs 22:4

    By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.
     
  19. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    The fact that scripture talks about an afterlife also proves nothing!
    You forget that quoting scripture is meaningless to non believers, whereas someone's personal experience, along with evidence of stuff he otherwise could not possibly know, will make unbelievers sit up and think.
    Such experiences also applies to Christians, who are often very confused about scripture. And its no good claiming that scripture says this or that about anything. If it was all plain sailing, then there would not be so many conflicting theologies abounding in the church, all being taught by people who claim they are backed by scripture.
     
  20. Francis Drake

    Francis Drake Returning adventurer.

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    Nearly sixty years ago, my wife at the age of 3 had repeated experiences of being taken up to heaven. This was not a near death experience, but happened during the day.
    She used to call them "think dreams", but to her childhood mind, it was as if she was fully there in heaven with the Lord, a bit like what Paul describes, whether in the body or out.....
    Her family were non Christian, so when she talked about it, her mum just treated it as childish make believe, so she stopped talking about it.

    She visited the heavenly city with it walls and jewelled gates. Despite her tiny age, she was asked by the Lord to do certain things related to spiritual warfare. She was given weapons to use against the enemy, and even then, she knew that those weapons were words from the Lord.

    She was eighteen years old before she had any contact with Christian. Someone gave her a bible which she read from cover to cover, and only then did she find the descriptions of the Holy City. She immediately recognised the scriptural descriptions as a place she had visited 15 years earlier.
     
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