Freemasonry. Separating myth from fiction.

[americanvet]

Anti-Masonic Examples: Duane Washum

Anti-Masonic Examples: Skip Sampson

 

[circuitrider]

Anti-Masonic Examples: Duane Washum

Anti-Masonic Examples: Skip Sampson

A good reminder.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I've jumped into this thread blind, so pardon any questions that have been asked already.

First: what is 'freemasonry'? I've seen a lodge in my hometown of Bristol, and I vaguely know that they're a private club based on religion, but what do they actually believe? Are they a Christian denomination, or a theological club, or political?

 

[circuitrider]

I've jumped into this thread blind, so pardon any questions that have been asked already.

First: what is 'freemasonry'? I've seen a lodge in my hometown of Bristol, and I vaguely know that they're a private club based on religion, but what do they actually believe? Are they a Christian denomination, or a theological club, or political?

Freemasonry is the worlds oldest fraternal organization. It is not a Christian denomination or organization. It is an organization available to good men who believe in a supreme being. The organization's teachings are based on the teachings of the stone Masons guilds of the middle ages though there is much dispute as to the original origins of Freemasonry as a craft guild.

Freemasonry teaches friendship, morality, and brotherly love.

Feel free to ask specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them as will other Masons present I'm sure.

 

[morningstar2651]

Anti-Masonic Examples: Duane Washum

Anti-Masonic Examples: Skip Sampson

Bill Schnoebelen is involved with emfj?

Wow. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to include the self-professed ex-vampire in the group's roster?

 

[duane washum]

Lotsa luck on your witch hunt. If you ever intend to enter detective work, my best suggestion is that you don't give up your day job.

 

[morningstar2651]

Lotsa luck on your witch hunt. If you ever intend to enter detective work, my best suggestion is that you don't give up your day job.

Technically, Bill is an ex-witch.

Also ex-mormon, ex-Satanist, and ex-vampire.

Though I do find it ironic that you use the idiom "witch hunt" in reference to someone who practices witchcraft.

 

[duane washum]

Technically, Bill is an ex-witch.

Also ex-mormon, ex-Satanist, and ex-vampire.

Though I do find it ironic that you use the idiom "witch hunt" in reference to someone who practices witchcraft.

And I find it pitiful that you have avoided the 800 pound gorilla in the room regarding Ex-Masons For Jesus.

If the research is your own, you have failed miserably. If it is somebody else's, you have put blind trust in his/her false information.

 

[Simpleman25]

Bill Schnoebelen is involved with emfj?

Wow. Why did anyone think it was a good idea to include the self-professed ex-vampire in the group's roster?

Bill was active with emfj in their infancy. Although now they avoid association with him like the plague.

What's comical is that they will use anyone that dislikes masonry for whatever reason. Then when they find out the person is a fraud they scatter like the cockroaches they are.

They've associated themselves with many men that have been found to be frauds. There are those that they still believe no matter the indisputable evidence. Men that have claimed to be masons that never got to the degree they claim. Most of them got their ten seconds of internet fame then scattered. Doesn't stop emfj from claiming these fraudulent men to be great Christians.

Great Christians like strawman here. Although they have soul been proven to be nothing but liars.

I'll look for the link that talks about all these men that e511 and emfj claim that are former masons or on their board of directors. Although the vast majority of these men can't be proven to exist let alone ex masons.

It goes to further my point about none of them letting facts get in the way of their hatred. It sickens me that possibly one person believes the mountains of nonsense they put out there.

 

[morningstar2651]

And I find it pitiful that you have avoided the 800 pound gorilla in the room regarding Ex-Masons For Jesus.

If the research is your own, you have failed miserably. If it is somebody else's, you have put blind trust in his/her false information.

Was it you that thought it was a good idea?

 

[Simpleman25]

And I find it pitiful that you have avoided the 800 pound gorilla in the room regarding Ex-Masons For Jesus.

If the research is your own, you have failed miserably. If it is somebody else's, you have put blind trust in his/her false information.

For you to admit there is an 800 pound gorilla in the room is a good start.

The gorilla is that the truth about emfj is that they are a cult.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I claimed that on one particular site you were booted for rules violations. I can make that claim because I witnessed it.

Then back it up. What site? What rules? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

Then back it up. What site? What rules? Cordially, Skip.

Come on armchair. I told you I'm not doing your legwork for you. Feel free to go hurt yourself looking for it.

Then again you won't hurt yourself. You know which site it is.

I'm not going to indulge your game play much longer.

Get it together or go away.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip, I'm not interested in dispelling your misperceptions or debating with you about Freemasonry.

The issue wasn't about Freemasonry, but about you making charges you cannot back up. Your specific point was:

Most anti-masons have not been Masons so they get info either from a few disgruntled ex-Masons or from conspiracy theorists who talk about black helicopters and world domination.

You won't provide backup because you have none. You cannot respond intellectually to our criticism, so you denigrate. The Masonic 'better man' in action isn't a pretty thing to behold.

It is immaterial to me what you and DW believe about Freemasonry.

What is material is what Freemasonry teaches, and our articulation of such teachings is what you find offensive, and indefensible. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Where's your proof?

I guess you never considered the hypocrisy in demanding proof from me when you have refused to back up your own claims. The most effective criticism of Masonry is found by letting Masons speak in open forum. We simply can't make up the stuff they say, right in front of God and everybody. Truly witless and wonderful.

Though my proof is centered around my first-hand witnessing of the event, I'd be happy to provide details; however, you have historically been suspicious of all I say, so why would you want the facts from me? Have you gained a newfound trust and respect? Probably not.

A better idea: Rev. Wayne, a UMC pastor and part-time Mason, looked into the matter himself. If he's still around, ask him about it. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Freemasonry is the worlds oldest fraternal organization. It is not a Christian denomination or organization. It is an organization available to good men who believe in a supreme being. The organization's teachings are based on the teachings of the stone Masons guilds of the middle ages though there is much dispute as to the original origins of Freemasonry as a craft guild.

Freemasonry teaches friendship, morality, and brotherly love.

Feel free to ask specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them as will other Masons present I'm sure.

OK, so it's more a 'theists club' than a Christian denomination. Why is there a lot of rumour about freemasons controlling the world? Is that a reaction to the secrecy and symbolism, or is the Queen a mason herself?

 

[Albion]

OK, so it's more a 'theists club' than a Christian denomination.

It's neither. If it were a "theists' club" it would be something like Bible study, I'd assume. That is to say that, while not being a church or religion itself, the purpose for its existence would be religion, and activities would center upon religion. But that isn't the case at all. Masonry is much more like Boy Scouts for adults, if you want to make some comparison at all.

Why is there a lot of rumour about freemasons controlling the world? Is that a reaction to the secrecy and symbolism, or is the Queen a mason herself?

Why are there rumours that the UK controls the world's economies from behind the scenes...or that long-dead organizations or clubs still exist somewhere...or that the Jews control the world...or that the CIA controls the world? People love conspiracy theories; and Masonry has indeed been prominent in the past with many national leaders having been members. The Queen is not one of them.

 

[Simpleman25]

I guess you never considered the hypocrisy in demanding proof from me when you have refused to back up your own claims. The most effective criticism of Masonry is found by letting Masons speak in open forum. We simply can't make up the stuff they say, right in front of God and everybody. Truly witless and wonderful.

Though my proof is centered around my first-hand witnessing of the event, I'd be happy to provide details; however, you have historically been suspicious of all I say, so why would you want the facts from me? Have you gained a newfound trust and respect? Probably not.

A better idea: Rev. Wayne, a UMC pastor and part-time Mason, looked into the matter himself. If he's still around, ask him about it. Cordially, Skip.

First of all I don't openly dismiss everything you say. There are important viewpoints you and I actually share.

When I openly dismiss you it is usually due to the fact that what you said was preposterous and usually without honesty. Not to mention without any first hand knowledge.


I'll give you a hint about the site. They were actually open and willing to start a forum on their Masonic site for antimasons. There was talk of actually making you a mod for them.

Instead of seizing the chance to be a part of something open and honest, you couldn't help yourself. You ruined it by not following established rules and guidelines.

I'm not a big fan of the masons that operate the site. In fact I've been warned on that site myself. Why? I believe any Masonic group that continues to not recognize Prince Hall masonry are archaic at best.

This is just another reason why no one believes anything you say. You think GL material is the end all and that there's no contradictions. I've told you how my own lodge contradicts state GL rules. Yet we're still here and a recognized lodge.

The fact that you can't rap your head around that fact never ceases to amaze me. We as masons don't have to agree about everything. And we don't. Just like the fact masons proclaim we don't talk politics or religion. Do you really think grown men can spend that much time together and not talk about those things?

I understand why that rule is there. Problem is that it to is archaic. Masonry has to change and grow with society if we want to survive.

 

[circuitrider]

A better idea: Rev. Wayne, a UMC pastor and part-time Mason, looked into the matter himself. If he's still around, ask him about it. Cordially, Skip.

Skip there has to be a lot more to it than what you either know or are telling. Just expressing an opinion for or against Freemasonry is not going to get you moved from a UMC. The pastor had to do something like try to shove his view down the throats of his parishioners. Or he had to have done something like mistreat congregants because of their Masonic affiliation.

Or he may have already been in trouble for other problems in the church that you had no awareness of.

I know how clergy in the UMC are moved and nothing happens in one Sunday unless the pastor commits misconduct or his move was actually already in the works. Unlike independent churches ordained Methodist clergy have certain rights and can't just be fired.

The only other possibility I can think of as for a fast dismissal is that he wasn't a ordained clergy person but simply a lay speaker or lay minister and after he went after all the freemasons in the church they didn't ask him back.

But your story as you've stated it is highly unlikely given how clergy moves work in the UMC.

 

[circuitrider]

What is material is what Freemasonry teaches, and our articulation of such teachings is what you find offensive, and indefensible. Cordially, Skip.

What is material is that it is a waste of time to put much if any effort into debunking a professional anti-Mason. You believe what you believe. You aren't going to change that. So what is the point?

And by the way, can you drop the "cordially"? There is nothing "cordial" in your statements or your vituperative attacks on Freemasons and Freemasonry.