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Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

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AndrewCS

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Rev Wayne,

I need to ask you a very straightforward question.

Do you believe that Freemasonry is acceptable aligns itself with the word of God.

I ask that, as you have been ordained and have accountability to God to teach people like me the real truth. I present myself to you as a teachable brother of Christ.

God bless you Rev :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
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O.F.F.

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You have entered a new world. Symbolically and spiritually you have been reborn. This started the moment you were prepared to become a Freemason.

Allen E. Roberts, The Craft and Its Symbols, page 3
The Bible says one is "born again" through faith in Jesus Christ. The Lodge say one is "reborn" by becoming a Mason. How can this be compatible with biblical Christianity?

Despite Masonic claims to the contrary, Freemasonry is not compatible with Christianity. -- Steven Tsoukalas

For more information on its incompatibility go to:

THE MASONIC LODGE: Is It Compatible with Christianity?

Order of Former Freemasons

Ex-Masons for Jesus

Ephesians 5:11.org
 
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George the 3rd

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O.F.F. said:
The Lodge say one is "reborn" by becoming a Mason.

When I was Initiated an Entered Apprentice, I was not told I had been "reborn"!

When I was Passed to the degree of Fellowcraft, I was not told I had been "reborn"!

When I was Raised to the degree of Master Mason, I was not told I had been "reborn"! I was told I had been "Raised"! The Raising is clearly a symbolic act to signify being "elevated" to a new and higher level of awareness and understanding.

The Master Mason degree in not now nor has it ever been a substitute for or a representation of a baptism, a spiritual rebirth or a religious conversion. Try to spin it as best you can, it just doesn't hold water.

George
 
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George the 3rd

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If anyone is TRULY interested in an objective and unbiased examination of the question, [FONT=Palatino, Times, Serif]Can a Christian be a member of a Masonic Lodge?[/FONT] , I would direct their attention to an article posted on the Grand Lodge Website for the Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/struggle.html

The article was written by [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans]James A Beverley.[/FONT]

It is an article written for the magazine, "
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans]Canadian Baptist[/FONT]".

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans] "The Struggle Over Freemasonry", James A Beverley. Canadian Baptist, ed. Larry Matthews. February 1998, vol. 144, no. 2. pp. 24-28. Dr James Beverley is a specialist in modern religious movements and a member of the faculty at Ontario Theological Seminary. Material from Wallace McLeod and Steve Tsoukalsis was supplied by Dr Beverley. Wallace McLeod is a professor emeritus at the University of Toronto, and one of the most distinguished Masonic historians in the world. Steve Doukalas is executive director of Sound Doctrine Ministries and a well-known critic of Masonry.[/FONT]
 
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JamesJD

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Here's a link about Leo Zagami, former member of the Masonic Executive Committee of Monte Carlo, and 33rd° freemason with the P2 Lodge. He's defying death by breaking his oaths, and exposing the horrific plans for the world, which made him defect. http://www.illuminaticonfessions.webfriend.it/
If the link doesn't work, google his name.

Wayne will insist that's not really freemasonry, only an exact copy of it; born of THEN accepted prominent freemason Mazzini. Wayne is strictly front steps freemasonry, saying the P2 son of freemasonry is irrelevant; but P2 is a back door to 33rd°, often faster because mafia people don't need the conditioning as to dangers of violating the oaths via rites of the steps up.

Albion tries to say 33rd° altogether is irrelevant, because not all masons are 33rd°, though the oaths serve the 33rd° agenda. They insist on irrefutable evidence of anyones' involvement with freemasonry, knowing that membership rolls are strictly confidential by masonic law. Therefore, the writings of Crowley and LaVey and Mazzini and Pike are the only evidence there can be, besides things like the masonic award plaque displayed by Hells Angels pres Barger in the tv documentary.

Hiding behind secrecy isn't being above board, on the level. The relation of P2 to front steps freemasonry at the beginning is indisputable. Demanding proof while hiding the facts is the strategy of defenders of freemasonry. Wayne won't even post the words to his oath in full. What's he hiding from us that we cannot be told without violating his oath?

Questionable history, questionable memberships, questionable rulership, questionable oaths, questionable agenda, questionable loyalties. All kept secret as possible, but sometimes exposed by Captain William Morgan, or Leo Zagami, or me. My experience is with P2 lodge mafia people, who don't consider themselves as masonic outcasts, except perhaps as a formality for public relations purposes.

Only deceivers need hide behind secrecy.

"For the fruit of the spirit is in all goodess and righteousness and TRUTH; Proving what is acceptable to the Lord. And have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, reprove them. For it is a shame to even speak of those things which are done by them IN SECRET"-Ephesians 5:9-12.

The fruits of the rulership of the world by secret societies is mass murders under the pretense of justifiable wars, from the Inquisition to Iraq; up to a million dead Iraq civilians who had nothing to do with 9/11, ignored by false Christians, suckered into believing that Bush (Bohemian Grove member & Skull & Bones Order of Death member) is Christian. Deception is vital to their rule.
If there's even a question as to the character of some members of freemasonry it's enough reason to not have "fellowship" with them. Freemason Reagan was also a Bohemian Grove practitioner of Babylonian Baal/Moloch murder rituals... http://www.ralphepperson.com was supplied info by 33rd° masons about Reagan being freemason. (Lest they demand proof that Reagan was a mason, hiding behind secrecy of membership rolls again). http://www.home.planet.nl/-reijd050/organizations/bohemian_grove_members_list.htm You can be sure at least some of the names are freemasons, despite the secrecy as to memberships.
 
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JamesJD

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"For the fruit of the spirit is in all goodess and righteousness and TRUTH; Proving what is acceptable to the Lord. And have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, reprove them. For it is a shame to even speak of those things which are done by them IN SECRET"-Ephesians 5:9-12.

The fruits of the rulership of the world by secret societies is mass murders under the pretense of justifiable wars, from the Inquisition to Iraq; up to a million dead Iraq civilians who had nothing to do with 9/11, ignored by false Christians, suckered into believing that Bush (Bohemian Grove member & Skull & Bones Order of Death member) is Christian. Deception is vital to their rule.
If there's even a question as to the character of some members of freemasonry it's enough reason to not have "fellowship" with them. Freemason Reagan was also a Bohemian Grove practitioner of Babylonian Baal/Moloch murder rituals... http://www.ralphepperson.com was supplied info by 33rd° masons about Reagan being freemason. (Lest they demand proof that Reagan was a mason, hiding behind secrecy of membership rolls again). http://www.home.planet.nl/-reijd050/organizations/bohemian_grove_members_list.htm You can be sure at least some of the names are freemasons, despite the secrecy as to memberships.

How convenient for the rulers that the Bohemian Grove member list is recently gone from the site I posted. But go to http://www.infowars.com and click on "The Grove" for members info and old historic pix showing what appears to be actual charred corpses there, sacrificed in their Babylonian Baalist rituals which are repeatedly condemned in the Bible.
"And have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame to even speak of those things which are done of them in SECRET"-Ephesians 5:12. Bohemian Grove member Reagan was a freemason doing Babylon abominations IN SECRET there. That's enough evidence for me.
 
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O.F.F.

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When I was Initiated an Entered Apprentice, I was not told I had been "reborn"!

When I was Passed to the degree of Fellowcraft, I was not told I had been "reborn"!

When I was Raised to the degree of Master Mason, I was not told I had been "reborn"! I was told I had been "Raised"! The Raising is clearly a symbolic act to signify being "elevated" to a new and higher level of awareness and understanding.

The Master Mason degree in not now nor has it ever been a substitute for or a representation of a baptism, a spiritual rebirth or a religious conversion. Try to spin it as best you can, it just doesn't hold water.

George

Your issue is not with me. I have not spun anything! The quote came from a MASON. So, take your objection up with your Masonic brother Allen E. Roberts. He's the one who said it, not me!

But thanks for bringing up the baptism in the 3rd Degree. I think readers will find the following link very eye opening: The Masonic Baptism
 
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O.F.F.

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George,

Since you are a relatively new member of this forum, let me remind you that your post is in violation of the rules of this forum. Specifically 2.1, which says in part:

2.1 No Flaming

. . .Such behavior would include personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations, even if you believe them to be true. . .

Christian Forum Rule 2.1

Duane Washum is a member of this forum. And, the link you posted includes, "personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations" against a member of this forum. Therefore, you are in violation of this rule and have been duly reported.
 
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George the 3rd

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George,

Since you are a relatively new member of this forum, let me remind you that your post is in violation of the rules of this forum. Specifically 2.1, which says in part:

Quote:
2.1 No Flaming

. . .Such behavior would include personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations, even if you believe them to be true. . .

Christian Forum Rule 2.1


Duane Washum is a member of this forum. And, the link you posted includes, "personally defamatory comments or inflammatory accusations" against a member of this forum. Therefore, you are in violation of this rule and have been duly reported.

So, it is OK to post a link to an article that defames Freemasonry but it is a violation of the "no flaming" rule to post a link that explores the history and motivations of the author of that article. And it is OK for you to post snide and derogatory remarks about a man of the cloth but I am the one that needs to be reported?!

Now I understand how things work around here!
 
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O.F.F.

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So, it is OK to post a link to an article that defames Freemasonry but it is a violation of the "no flaming" rule to post a link that explores the history and motivations of the author of that article. And it is OK for you to post snide and derogatory remarks about a man of the cloth but I am the one that needs to be reported?!

There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.

The same rule however, does apply to Masonic members of this forum. And, trust me, I've been warned and even suspended here a couple of times for my remarks against the Masonic "man of the cloth," as you call him, or I should say "man of the Apron;" since thats the only "cloth" he truly represents here.
 
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JamesJD

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There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.

The same rule however, does apply to Masonic members of this forum. And, trust me, I've been warned and even suspended here a couple of times for my remarks against the Masonic "man of the cloth," as you call him, or I should say "man of the Apron;" since thats the only "cloth" he truly represents here.

Years ago, when I posted here, I stood alone aginst freemasonry, and my threads got deleted about it. Glad to see you here.

They're obviously not paid to acknowledge what's in the Bible applies to them. They're so sworn to secrecy that Wayne can't even post the wording of his 3rd° Blue Lodge oath. What then does the 33rd° hide, that Wayne has no idea of?

Only deception needs secrecy. Their white-washings, denials, pretending that none are masons unless we can prove it by masonic records, which are secret, is evasion. Every person associated with freemasonry in the past, present is relevant, as are all aspects and offshoot orgs, like the son of freemasonry twin of freemasonry P2 lodge.
It's fair to post testimony of one who risks his life to expose P2 lodge http://www.illuminaticonfessions.webfriend.it/
It's fair to bring up the book of Captain Morgan, for which he was abducted, never to be found, after breaking his oaths.
The overall secrecy (enforced) makes ANY scrap of evidence vital to investigating masonry.

Ordained ministers are bound by the IRS tax exempt agreement, which forbids opposing the gov "pubic policy" (501c3). They serve mammon, masonic or not. I oppose the gov policies on ignoring Geneva conventions, and using depleted uranium munitions in civilian areas, illegally invading and seizing the oil, while up to a million civilians are dead who had nothing to do with 9/11. Lots of blood is on the hands of those who ignore such evil for tax exempt status. 1 John 2:18-19, & John 16:2-3, & Ezekiel 9:3-9.
 
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kepha31

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Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Freemasonry's teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry's religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge's prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism. The Lodge's practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons, and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes. Such oaths are gravely immoral because their subject matter is trivial or does not give rise to the necessity of an oath. These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g., having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots). These penalties show a lack of respect for God and amount to blasphemy which is a serious sin. John Salza

By way of background, I was a 32nd degree Mason and Shriner, as well as a Blue lodge officer and Proficiency cardholder. A Proficiency card is a rare Masonic credential conferred upon those Masons who are considered experts in Masonic ritual.
I spent several years in Freemasonry before rediscovering the truth of Jesus Christ and His Church.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/freemasonfaq.html#faq09

note: I am not John Salza.
 
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George the 3rd

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O.F.F. said:
There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.
Wiki: Rules - Non-Nicene Theology

The Non-Nicene Theology forums are for discussion of Christian theology(emphasis mine!), especially including those doctrines which are not outlined in or are contrary to the Nicene Creed.

Christian doctrines which specifically are outlined or implied in the Nicene creed can be discussed in the Nicene Theology forums.
Mike,

While it may be that some would differ as to whether or not Masonry is or is not compatible with their understanding of Christianity, I see NOTHING in the Rules that would imply that "
the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as" the administrators are concerned! Especially when the section on "Non-Nicene Theology" is classified as one for a discussion of "Christian theology".
Saying it is so don't make it so!

George
 
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George the 3rd

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kepha31,

While you may have Mike's support in your decision to leave Masonry, I think you should keep in mind that as a Roman Catholic, he still does not consider you a Christian.


O.F.F. said:
Sometimes, I don't know who is the most arrogant, the Pope or his "cultic" followers. No where in the universally accepted Canon of Scripture (the 66 books of the Holy Bible) is there any mention of Jesus establishing the "Catholic" church or denomination.

Jesus established "the Church," which is the universal body of believers who became, and are becoming, "born-again" by faith in His finished work at Calvary, and not by works of human effort, which include the 'required' sacraments of Roman Catholicism.

Futhermore, the Holy Bible (as specified above) has no arrogant and egotistical mention of the "Roman Catholic Church alone as being the mediator of salvation."

Biblically, Jesus Christ is the ONLY mediator between God and man, not the "cult" of Roman Catholicism (1 Timothy 2:5).
http://www.christianforums.com/t5697433
(Post #4)
 
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Rev Wayne

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Every person associated with freemasonry in the past, present is relevant, as are all aspects and offshoot orgs, like the son of freemasonry twin of freemasonry P2 lodge.
Then by the same principle, you'd better inform Mike that his rejection of the Catholic Church is invalid. Why? Because if you can make a statement like this and declare it to be valid, then I can take the same statement and declare it to be an across-the-board principle, that if anyone, no matter what they believe, may declare themselves to be members of that organization despite its definition and declaration of its beliefs, then the principle must apply to Christianity as well.

You might want to break it in gently to Mike, though, because this means he will have to accept not only the Roman Catholics, but all those Mormons and Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses that he so adamantly rejects.

They're so sworn to secrecy that Wayne can't even post the wording of his 3rd° Blue Lodge oath.
You could always google it, if it's so danged important to you. I'm surprised you hadn't thought of that already. :)

What then does the 33rd° hide, that Wayne has no idea of?
What difference does it make, since:

1. I have never taken it
2. I have no plans to take it, and
3. Even if I did have any plans to do so, the 33rd is not exactly up to the one receiving it.

As I've pointed out before, what I'm ignorant of as "only" a 3rd degree isn't nearly as obvious as the things you are ignorant of as a no-degree.

Ordained ministers are bound by the IRS tax exempt agreement, which forbids opposing the gov "pubic policy" (501c3).
I know nothing at all about pastors being tax exempt, only churches. It is not something I would have any reason to address anyway, those in positions of administration in the denomination would do that. All that is required anyway, is that a form 1023 be filled out and sent in as application for such status. But I defy you to find anywhere on the current IRS form 1023 where it says any such thing as you claim. I looked all through it and did not see it anywhere.

Whatever this is, it's obviously another of your misinformed accusations. And it has no place here on a Freemasonry thread, go find an IRS thread or a thread on ordination. And while you're at it, I'd suggest you contact Mike Gentry and let him know what he has agreed to as well, since as I understand it, O.F.F. is also a non-profit organization and would have had to apply for that status in exactly the same way. Not to mention, ephesians5-11, emfj, and whatever other affiliates they might have, all of which are also non-profit.

But like I said, I'd consider taking this discussion elsewhere, it has nothing to do with Masonry. Or Anti-Masonry either.
 
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Rev Wayne

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There is no rule in what one posts against Freemasonry. After all, even the administrators of this forum agree that it belongs in the category of unorthodox, non-Christian, non-Nicene theology, because that's exactly what it is. So, while they allow you to create threads here to debate otherwise, the Christian case against the Masonic Lodge has already been decided as far as they are concern.

Not so fast, Mr. One-Size-Fits-All. The position of this forum is neither “for” nor “against” in regards to Freemasonry. There is nothing addressing it at all in the forum rules themselves. In the subforum rules for this thread, that remains to be seen, as things have just undergone some major changes, and the subforum rules have yet to be developed for this newly-titled section. However, under the old “Unorthodox Theology” section subforum rules, the position was very clearly stated:

6.6 You MAY post in the "Christians Only" forums and MAY use a "Christian" faith icon in your profile if you consider yourself a "Christian" and DO adhere to the contents of the Nicene Creed AND believe in the following controversial doctrines BUT the specific discussion of these doctrines must be posted in the Open forums (for example, Unorthodox Theological Doctrines) and not in the Christian Only forums:
a. Full Preterism.
b. Open Theism.
c. Universalism or Universal Salvation.
d. Annihilationism.
e. Freemasonry.

A more valid argument would be that the administration here considers Freemasonry to be in the same category as full preterism, open theism, universal salvation, or annihilationism.

As for Freemasonry being “non-Nicene Theology,” I doubt you will get any argument from any Mason on that point, since Freemasonry is not only “non-Nicene,” it is “non-theology.”

But the way in which this forum DOES handle it makes it very clear they do not view Freemasonry as a religion at all, and they give tacit acknowledgment of it in their policy allowing Christian Masons to post in the “Christians Only” sections of the forum. That is a very significant step for them to take, in light of the arguments of some folks to the contrary.

I've been warned and even suspended here a couple of times for my remarks against the Masonic "man of the cloth,"

That’s a pretty self-explanatory remark in itself, isn’t it? If the remark is “against me,” as you stated, where in any thread in any section of this forum would it be allowable?


 
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AndrewCS

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A question for Rev Wayne - ONLY thanks



Rev Wayne,

I need to ask you a very straightforward question.

Do you believe that Freemasonry is acceptable aligns itself with the word of God.

I ask that, as you have been ordained and have accountability to God to teach people like me the real truth. I present myself to you as a teachable brother of Christ.

God bless you Rev :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
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