Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

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Ave Maria

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Hi everyone. When I was a Fundamentalist, everyone told me that Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible. However, I now hear people saying that they are compatible. Could someone please explain this to me? I'm really confused!
 

fejao

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Well I suppose its how you look at freemasonary. Being that freemasonary is a Scottish invention and its very common here, it has been addressed/investigated here in the church quite a lot especially among the evangelical/conservative churches. I think people love to see conspiracy in anything that is secret or hidden. However I think you will be able to find lots of information about the pros and cons of the freemassonary on the internet, everything from stating that they are a great christian institution doing many great works, to associating them with blatant satanism in the higher ranks to links with one world goverments and the illuminati.


Fejao x
 
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ptgd1st

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My Concern with fremasonry is origin and the secrecy of the Masonic order. Origionaly it was not a "christian" group. It was more like a fraternal order of stone masons. Kind of like a Union. At some point and i would have to look in some of my books to remember exactly, they developed into more of Church.
THe Secrecy also bothers me. The church is not supposed to be secret. They have rituals we have never heard of. Secret handshakes and the like. Christianity, is a very broad term so i am going to use it as Non-denominational. Christianity is supposed to be very open. We are supposed to readily share the "Good News." Jesus was not secretive in his ministry.
 
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kdet

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ptgd1st said:
My Concern with fremasonry is origin and the secrecy of the Masonic order. Origionaly it was not a "christian" group. It was more like a fraternal order of stone masons. Kind of like a Union. At some point and i would have to look in some of my books to remember exactly, they developed into more of Church.
THe Secrecy also bothers me. The church is not supposed to be secret. They have rituals we have never heard of. Secret handshakes and the like. Christianity, is a very broad term so i am going to use it as Non-denominational. Christianity is supposed to be very open. We are supposed to readily share the "Good News." Jesus was not secretive in his ministry.

It is still not a Christian group, and it is not a church. It is an organization of men that are seeking to better themselves through charitable works.
 
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Crazy Liz

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The arguments about Freemasonry have grown way out of proportion, I'm sure. The Christians who opposed it have generally come from two directions. The Roman Catholic Church, with its idea of Christendom (the concept of making all of society Christian, as it supposedly was in the Middle Ages) opposes secret organizations primarily, I think, because of the possibility of their concealing conspiracies. At the other end of the spectrum, Anabaptists oppose it on ethical grounds. Anabaptists and Quakers refuse to take oaths, and therefore will not join any society that requires one. Even Christians who do not oppose all oaths rightly question the ethical wisdom of taking an oath before knowing exactly what it entails. They would use the story of Jephthah and his daughter in Judges 11 as a cautionary tale, and would refuse to take an oath to keep something secret before knowing what the secret is.

I, personally, think the Anabaptists and Quakers have a reasoned principle by which to say Christians should not become Freemasons. It is a general principle of living life simply and openly, not taking oaths or keeping secrets. This is a good and Christian principle that does not include suspicion or slander. It assumes there is probably nothing wrong with the Masonic secrets, but Christians should generally avoid both oaths and secrets, based on ethical wisdom.
 
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seebs

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ahab said:
Its incompatible. This is what the churches basically agree and state.

"The churches"? This is a very poor phrasing, because it removes responsibility from any person, and omits any kind of argumentation.

There have been endless debates on this on this forum (See General Theology)

Sure.

The poll on general theology also showed 75% of Christians recognised freemasonry as incompatible.

So? 75% of the Christians who have ever lived thought slavery was A-OK. A solid majority of Christians today think lending money at interest to make a profit is okay, too.

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy. We are mostly laymen here, and not especially well qualified to make such judgments. Most importantly, the vast majority of us know nothing about what Freemasons believe or practice.

I've talked to an actual Freemason on this site. He said it was compatible, and he, unlike all the other people, actually knew what he was talking about from direct experience.
 
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Hi Seebs,



"The churches"? This is a very poor phrasing, because it removes responsibility from any person, and omits any kind of argumentation.
Just another blanket statement like the ones you have made on slavery and money. The position of most of the churches is covered by their statements to various degrees against freemasonry. There are of course dissenters and revisionists to the official position as you say. As to slavery Paul condemns slave trading 1 Tim 1:10.although the church in many instances in the past has condoned it. However if you also talk to some ex-freemasons on this site you will also see they find freemasonry incompatible. Experience.
 
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John16:2

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kdet said:
It is still not a Christian group, and it is not a church. It is an organization of men that are seeking to better themselves through charitable works.
Charities, such as Shriners' Circus, only legally need spend 2% of income on the actual cause of the charity, and Shriners' hospital can pick and choose who they are willing to help. Are not the controllers of society responsible for living conditions, like, oppressive health care costs? Some countries have socialized medicine, instead of people dying to afford doctors. "Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgement seats?"-James 2:6. Whose world war 3 is this at hand? Freemasonry began with Knights Templar mass murdering moslems and jews in the name of Christian Crusades. truthquestonline.info. The histories of freemason controlled govs are full of death, especially in the last century. Know the tree by its' fruits. Accountability is rare for mass murders by govs all over the world. Pol Pot died of old age at home after exterminating up to 6 million Cambodians openly. Now I hear Pinochet is too old to stand trial for his many victims. Justice delayed is justice denied. It makes sense to me that the stone that the masons reject is become the headstone of the corner (pyramid of prophecy), as the riddle of David, repeated by Jesus suggests. The enmity between the Lord and the kings and rulers of earth (Freemasons) is predicted in Psalm 110:5, 2:2-4, Isaiah 23:9 & 24:21-22, Ephesians 6:12, Acts 4:26, Matthew 22:44, Revelation 19:11-19, and Zechariah 10:5, and the first book of Enoch. The history of Bohemian Grove (infowars.com) is more murderous than charitable, as photos show real victims in the rituals. Those Moloch/Baal ritual abominations are not compatible with the Bible at all, as shown by Elijah killing 450 of Jezebels' prophets of Baal, and the Lord blessing 4 generations of Jehu for him killing all the Baalists in Israel in 2 Kings 10:18-30 old KJV only, many versions have different versions of the same chapters somehow, in the pre Psalms old testaments. King David killed tens of thousands of Baalists, yet accurately predicted the crucifixion. Research Molech and Baalism, and the sacrificing of children in the fire at the Moloch altar in Tunisia, that still stands. Even many Christian religious leaders aren't compatible with Christianity, if you read 1 John 2:18-19-"even now there are many anti-Christs; whereby we know it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were NOT of us". Also see John 16:2-3 about how wrong you can be and still think you're right. Thus the Bible acknowledges the problem of false doctrines, claiming to be true Christianity. Follow Scripture, not powerless talkers, or join churches that have been targeted by arsons in the last decade. "All that will live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution"-2 Timothy 3:12. Surely the predicted great tribulation is a condemnation of the evil here, not an endorsement or reward, (Isaiah 13:6). You can still choose to see no evil, but God chooses to see it, and stop it!
 
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John16:2

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seebs said:
"The churches"? This is a very poor phrasing, because it removes responsibility from any person, and omits any kind of argumentation.



Sure.



So? 75% of the Christians who have ever lived thought slavery was A-OK. A solid majority of Christians today think lending money at interest to make a profit is okay, too.

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy. We are mostly laymen here, and not especially well qualified to make such judgments. Most importantly, the vast majority of us know nothing about what Freemasons believe or practice.

I've talked to an actual Freemason on this site. He said it was compatible, and he, unlike all the other people, actually knew what he was talking about from direct experience.
Show me the proof that 75% of all Christians that ever lived supported slavery, or be accused of deception on behalf of Freemasonry! And the Freemason you refer to admits he never made it to 33rd degree, therefore has no idea what the 33rds really do after all the initiation rituals are done. 33rds are sworn to secrecy, consenting to a similar fate as Captain Morgan if they violate. Both Bush & Kerry have admitted membership in the secret society Skull & Bones (Order of Death), but neither will answer any further questions about it. At 33, you choose your own fate, life or death/heaven or hell, and must prove yourself good or evil. Most below 33 don't know the test is ahead, and plays for keeps. My direct experiences are called imaginary at this site, unlike the Constitutionalist patriot sites. Don't join Freemasonry to be slave to the beastly synagogue of Satan, or killed because you were trusting and naive about the depths of evil in others' hearts! Investigate so-called Satanist Aliester Crowley, grandmastermason who founded the Ordo Templi Orientis branch, or the Luciferian statements of Albert Pike, who wrote "Morals and Dogma" of Freemasonry. Synagogue of Satan is right, and of Baal! (infowars.com/Bohemian Grove). Don't expect to see Skull & Bones Bush in heaven, after 100000 Iraqi civilians died on bogus pretenses. Follow him to hell if you want, it won't be long. ProPAGANda is how they herd the sheeple to slaughter, while pretending the slaughter is righteously motivated. The media is a weapon of mass deception, while real news is snuffed, like the Discovery channel documentary about the Las Vegas child auctions for the elite, including politicians and religious leaders, available via mediaunderground.net, titled;"Conspiracy of Silence". Beasts in sheeps clothing, people; we are in the midst of wolves who feign harmlessness. Over 1000 US citizens per day go missing permanently, and many others are murdered or die in staged accidents, like the shotgun accident attempted on me by a PD informant in May 1993. Reality is harsh, and evil ain't gonna confess to the public what they do. Discern motives of the writers here, and whose interests they serve with name calling and denials. I've many personal reasons to hate Freemasonry with a vengeance, that's my motive; not donations or sales or votes or to keep control of public opinion about Freemasonry, which many Christians never heard of. I'm shouting from the housetops about something they want to be low profile,(Luke 12:2-6, Isaiah 23:9). Freemason control is why the great tribulation is nigh (Ephesians 6:12-14 & jmccanneyscience.com). Unprecidented numbers of new comets have come into the solar system in recent years, some impacting the sun quietly in 1998 and 2000. The Gulf of Mexico is turning into a dead zone of toxic algae blooms, along with 150 other ocean dead zones cited by the UN Environmental Program. The seas are dying, as predicted in Rev 16, and Rev 8 could commence anytime now, but I expect the USA to lose in war first, leading to Armageddon. Washingtonprophecy.com about the mystery woman that appeared at Valley Forge, and predicted the history of the USA to General Washington accurately, but the part about an invasion by China and allies. Clinton & Reno ordered US Customs to return a freighter full of rocket propelled grenades, mines, and tripod machine guns to the Chinese at Long Beach Naval Station, where it was seized. It wasn't smuggled in to help the pro-democracy movement of Tiannamen Square, that's for sure, and 32 Chinese were caught yesterday illegally entering by container ship. That isn't necessary, with the US military overthrowing Noriega to hand the Panama Canal and US military bases there to China. Oh, and with most favored nation trading status, China got the neutron bomb and the best military tech possible to share with Iran, North Korea, etc, and kill US soldiers with. To not see a conspiracy for Chinese interests is lunacy, with millions of US jobs now done in China and elsewhere, and the lack of consideration for US national security with the godless Chinese commies. CLUE; godless commies have no respect for Christians, or the Bill of Rights,(already overthrown by so-called "Patriot Acts"). Decide where you stand now, will you fight, or submit, or hide? Take not the mark of the global agenda, and read Zechariah 10:5, Rev 19:11-19, and "he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one"-Luke 22:36-50. Or become damnable godless commies, if you like, or be taken to the REX-84 FEMA camps like bad nazis,(Google that). Conspiracy facts are not craziness, like the letsroll911.org site for one. NYFD ruled that WTC building 7 was a controlled demolition unscheduled, and no raghead in a cave did that!
 
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seebs

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John16:2 said:
Show me the proof that 75% of all Christians that ever lived supported slavery, or be accused of deception on behalf of Freemasonry!

Slavery was nearly universally accepted from the year zero until the 1800s. To this day, there still exist some Christians who accept slavery. It's a majority position.

If you'd prefer, I could just assert that, in 1900, it was true; you don't have to go back very far to get up to about 99%.

And the Freemason you refer to admits he never made it to 33rd degree, therefore has no idea what the 33rds really do after all the initiation rituals are done.

Sure.

But then, most people never make it to 33rd, so even if the 33rd degree is somehow incompatible with Christianity, we have no reason to believe others are.

My direct experiences are called imaginary at this site, unlike the Constitutionalist patriot sites. Don't join Freemasonry to be slave to the beastly synagogue of Satan, or killed because you were trusting and naive about the depths of evil in others' hearts! Investigate so-called Satanist Aliester Crowley, grandmastermason who founded the Ordo Templi Orientis branch, or the Luciferian statements of Albert Pike, who wrote "Morals and Dogma" of Freemasonry.

The problem is that the world is full of people who claim to be ex-masons, and who make all sorts of contradictory claims. I tend to be pretty skeptical of ex-masons, ex-satanists, ex-pagans, et al.; most of them are not reliable sources.

Don't expect to see Skull & Bones Bush in heaven, after 100000 Iraqi civilians died on bogus pretenses.

While I share your concerns about his choice of approval-boosters, I don't see how this is a barrier to heaven. If we had to avoid screwing up to go to heaven, none of us would make it.

As to the rest... I don't particularly hold with conspiracy theories.
 
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Texas Lynn

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ahab said:
I am sceptical of freemasons

Then I would suggest you not join Masonry. but your cavalier and irresponsible remormongering and conspiracy-hashing maligns a fine organization and for that you should be ashamed.
 
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seebs

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ahab said:
Your proof doesn't convince me or address the issue of comaptibilty. It either is or isnt regardless of what the church has thought in the past.

Exactly. And also regardless of what any particular church thinks today.

So, rather than relying on a vague sense that many churches say this, we'd have to have a clear indication of what exactly the incompatibilities are.

Besides it was Chirstians that were heavily instrumental in getting slavery abolished.

And Christians that killed them for it, yes.

I am sceptical of freemasons, so I dont know how your doubts about ex-masons helps.

I'm just pointing out that the testimony of ex-masons, like the testimony of people who claim to be ex-satanists or ex-wiccans, is probably not a reliable source for information about freemasonry.
 
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costlygrace

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I will have to find an online source to back this up, but many Freemasons teach that there are four gods. :sick: One is the Creator, Yahweh, and the other is Lucifer (I don't remember the others). To begin with people are taught that Yahweh is good and Lucifer is bad, but if they are considered trustworthy with Masonic secrets they are taught that the "real truth" is that Lucifer is good and Yahweh is bad!!! :mad: :cry:

This is quoted from an article I decided not to cite, because it is too graphic in decribing the Satanic nature of Freemasonry:

Respected Freemason author Albert Pike says of Satan:
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!"

This reveals what it means when new freemasons are encouraged to "seek the Light"!!! Nothing like what Christians would mean!

The cover of Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" has the Latin inscription:
" 'DEUS MEUMQUE JUS'. The literal meaning is 'God and My Right'...Doc Marquis says this statement is a very typical one within Satanism. It has two meanings, one within the other. First, this phrase means that the Freemason can depend upon their God to determine their Right and Justice. Secondly, since the God of Freemasonry is Lucifer, Masons are saying that they are "using occult methods", through Lucifer, to achieve their Rights and Justice. Marquis says that this phrase is very powerful and very dangerous within Satanism. The second a Satanist sees this phrase in Latin on Pike's book, he knows the material within is Satanism, without reading a word!"


Most of this is actually not known by most practicing freemasons. Why? Because of deceit, and also because those who enter the inner circle of Freemasonry are killed if they tell.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free001a.htm
Freemason author Albert Pike said in his book on Freemason morals and dogma: "Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it."

Practicing freemason Manly P. Hall wrote: "Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity -- an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect ... it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August [defined as 'of majestic dignity, grandeur'] fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum [defined as 'a secret, a mystery']."

What is the purpose of this outer organization, separate from the inner one? Read on, in the words of another masonic author (in a document detailing plans for the New World order):

"7. For what purpose then have we invented this whole policy and insinuated it into the minds of the gentiles [outer organization freemasons] without giving them any chance to examine its underlying meaning? For what, indeed, if not in order to obtain in a roundabout way what is for our scattered tribe unattainable by the direct road? It is this which has served as the basis for our organisation of SECRET MASONRY WHICH IS NOT KNOWN TO, AND AIMS WHICH ARE NOT EVEN SO MUCH AS SUSPECTED BY, THESE GENTILE CATTLE, ATTRACTED BY US INTO THE SHOW ARMY OF MASONIC LODGES IN ORDER TO THROW DUST IN THE EYES OF THEIR FELLOWS." (Emphasis in the original)

The outer organization is to distract people's attention from the Satanic inner one, and also outer freemasons carry out plans for the inner organization, without knowing the intentions and where those plans will lead!

In Christ,
costlygrace
 
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Hi Texas Lynn,



Then I would suggest you not join Masonry. but your cavalier and irresponsible remormongering and conspiracy-hashing maligns a fine organization and for that you should be ashamed.


As I was responding to the comment that someone was sceptical of ex-masons I was simply stating that I am sceptical of freemasons. I am sorry you are so offended by a counter opinion. I acknowledge that freemasons most often have much to be commended for in their generosity and general social conduct, but personally I believe ‘freemasonry’ is satanic, and I am not ashamed. :wave:
 
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Hi seebs,



Exactly. And also regardless of what any particular church thinks today.

So, rather than relying on a vague sense that many churches say this, we'd have to have a clear indication of what exactly the incompatibilities are.
I do, they are explained fully in detail on the General Theology section, “IThread about masons” on page 11
I'm just pointing out that the testimony of ex-masons, like the testimony of people who claim to be ex-satanists or ex-wiccans, is probably not a reliable source for information about freemasonry.
I am just pointing out that the truth found in scripture tends to suggest the testimonies of ex-masons to be the truth.
 
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