Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

[Rev Wayne]

Wow Wayne, those are some awfully long posts. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands defending Freemasnry instead of spreading the gospel. Oh, but that's the right thing to do for a 'man of the Apron.' My bad.

Guess I forgot to mention also, my family and I are on the last day of vacation, which we always use as a transition day and spend the time at home doing nothing much. So it isn't like the time would have been spent on the job as you seem to think I ought to be doing 24/7/365.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Personally, I really do not see an ongoing argument like this being from God.

Whatever situation we find ourselves in where satan’s lies are being exposed satan will use people to defend them and continue to deceive people and take them down the path to destruction.

Thanks, Andrew, that's what I keep trying to tell him. He just doesn't seem to believe the exposees--not that I really thought he would, I post them for the benefit of those who can see the truth and accept it rather than automatically go into denial.

An ongoing argument not from God? Perhaps; but I tend to think that iron sharpens iron, and all benefit from any discussion. I don't just post here, either, I've been involved in various discussions of some hot-button issues, the most recent being a discussion of universalism where I was holding off a 5 to 1 gang tackle by universalists who were also in denial about some clear statements of Scripture. I spent some time once on an atheist forum where I was ridiculed and humiliated and people tried to hammer me down when they couldn't respond to the arguments. Before that it was discussions of Trinitarianism, homosexuality, free will vs determinism, and many more. I have found this a good place to sharpen the theological axe, which is always helpful in keeping the preaching ministry sharp, or in having ready responses when someone in the congregation comes to me with a question about any of these same issues.

But accusations about Satan? I adopted a standard practice recently of answering such accusations with personal illustrations that strongly counter them. So here goes, I received a letter from a former parishioner thanking me for a visit I paid to him in the hospital. This is an excerpt:

I drank way too much. I knew it was coming there were voices I would hear in the middle of my head in the middle of the night when I woke up with a big head like, “Man you need to slow down, man you need to drink less, man you should go back to the Lord,” I would always say, “Yea, I know, I’ll start next week being better, or yeah I’ll go”……I NEVER DID! That was God I’m sure now.

I got sick, yep put me in the hospital in intensive care for a week. You know I didn’t pray then either?

I will get to the point now. I was in the hospital in W______ and I was in the worst shape I have ever been in and no way out. My blood work was way out of the numbers and my pancreas had started to shut down which made my blood sugar go way up. There I was taking shots for diabetes and was doomed to give myself shots for the rest of my life, and I still had no reason to pray!?

One day YOU walked into the room I was in. Now I have been in this hospital, for what seems like 3 months but it was only a little over a week and I just got out of intensive care. It seems like it was kind of gray outside and cold. You walked into my room and said “hello.” Now I had no idea who you were at the time but then I did. There was a glow about you, you were different than anyone that I have ever met, we said not a lot to each other but I knew why you were there. It scared the stuffing out of me but then it was very comforting. I was cold and then went warm. I started to pray again…started to recover, and when I got home I started to work with God. I’m still not the good Christian that a lot of people in our church are, but I’m trying. I have since gotten off of the shots and am now taking pills. The doctors are amazed at how it happened. I keep telling them to look towards the sky and talk to God (I don’t think they believe it BUT I DO!). Wayne, I want you to know I am still warm. I do not know if you knew that you were delivering a gift to me on that day but you did and I heard it loud and clear. I heard the Lord in your voice and Love in your heart, there was no need for speaking on that or any other day as you did your job well. I came back to the church and most of all I found my LORD again. I have heard grumbling through the days back at this church but I do not care what the others may say. I know what great work you are doing with the Lord, and hope you get a chance to tell the others. I did not write this sooner as I felt it would make you uncomfortable but (my wife) assured me that you should hear it.

Wayne, the reason I always say thank you is because you are the one that brought God back into my heart. I come to church and I feel I am part of a family. I have met some great people here and want to be a part of this church and of their family.

So, exactly how was Satan at work in this? Or, will you just simply say this was different, Satan works elsewhere but wasn't working there? So what about the glow, I know that wasn't me, so was it Satan as an angel of light, or was it God? If it was Satan as an angel of light, why did it produce results for the Kingdom of God rather than for the kingdom of Satan? Since it produced results for the Kingdom of God, would that not rather suggest that I have been called as an agent of God, rather than as an agent of Satan? And since Jesus said good fruit can come only from good trees, and bad fruit only from bad trees, then how is it I am characterized as being used by Satan as his agent?

I am ready always to defend the things I say. Are you? If so, how can you explain this with any consistency?

 

[AndrewCS]

Rev,

Man sharpeneth man I certainly agree. I just want to say to you brother to be careful that you do not get “too sharp”, in other words you become sensitive and think everyone is attacking you.

My post was not a go at you but rather trying to de-fuse the tension on this thread. My reference to satan was / is a general one.

God bless you

 

[Rev Wayne]

I just want to say to you brother to be careful that you do not get “too sharp”, in other words you become sensitive and think everyone is attacking you.

My post was not a go at you but rather trying to de-fuse the tension on this thread. My reference to satan was / is a general one.

I never said anything about "everyone" doing so, just you.

"Defuse the tension" by titling your post "a bit much" after Mike just commented about "long posts?"

"Defuse the tension" by making comments about being "used by Satan?"





Who are you fooling besides yourself?

I can't help but notice there is no legitimate response, so I have to assume this was simply a way around it? If so, it's not working very well, is it?

 

[AndrewCS]

I never said anything about "everyone" doing so, just you.

"Defuse the tension" by titling your post "a bit much" after Mike just commented about "long posts?"

"Defuse the tension" by making comments about being "used by Satan?"




Who are you fooling besides yourself?

I can't help but notice there is no legitimate response, so I have to assume this was simply a way around it? If so, it's not working very well, is it?

I will not rise to the bait,

Freemasonry is considered occultist practise by most Holy Spirit filled Christians and no matter what you type on this forum is not going to change the facts.

As a man of the cloth, I am positive that you agree such things are best taken to God for the answers.

God Bless you

PS: you still never answered the question I posted several times.

 

[O.F.F.]

Please note - by this article, we are not claiming that all who are involved in Free Masonry are cultists, or that all Free Masons believe all the items mentioned below. What we are saying is this - Free Masonry at its core is not a Christian organization. There are many Christians who have left Free Masonry after discovering what it is truly all about. . .This article was reviewed and approved for accuracy by a former Worshipful Master of a Blue Lodge.

Question: "What is Free Masonry and what do Free Masons believe?"

Answer: Free Masonry, Eastern Star, and other similar "secret" organizations appear to be harmless fellowship gatherings. Many of them appear to promote belief in God. However, upon closer examination, we find that the only belief requirement is not that one must believe in the True and Living God, but rather, that one must believe in the existence of a “Supreme Being”, which includes the “gods” of Islam, Hinduism, or any other world religion. The anti-Biblical and anti-Christian beliefs and practices of this organization are partially hidden beneath an outward appearance of a supposed compatibility with the Christian faith. The following is a comparison of what the Bible says with the "official" position of Free Masonry:

Salvation from Sin:

The Bible’s View: Jesus became the sinner’s sacrifice before God when He shed His blood and died as the propitiation (payment) for the sins of the whole world (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8, John 3:16).

Mason’s View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to ignore the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. According to Freemasonry, a person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.

The View of the Bible:

The Bible’s View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Mason’s View: The Bible is only one of several “Volume(s) of Sacred Law”, all of which are deemed to be equally important in Freemasonry. The Bible is an important book, only as far as those members who claim to be Christians are concerned. It is not considered to be the exclusive Word of God, nor is it considered to be God’s sole revelation of himself to humankind; but only one of many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God’s will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran or Rig Vedas.

The Doctrine of God:

The Bible’s View: There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other Gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

Mason’s View: All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the ‘Nameless One of a hundred names,’ they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all.

The Doctrine of Jesus and the Trinity:

The Bible’s View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus’ name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Mason’s View: There is no exclusivity in Jesus Christ or the Triune God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. It is deemed to be un-Masonic to invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of toleration. The name of Jesus has been omitted from biblical verses that are used in Masonic rituals. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

Human Nature and Sin:

The Bible’s View: All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that humanity, since the Fall, has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

Mason’s View: Through symbols and emblems, Masons teach that man is not sinful, just “rude and imperfect by nature”. Human beings are able to improve their character and behavior in various ways, including acts of charity, moral living, and voluntary performance of civic duty. Humanity possesses the capability of moving from imperfection toward total perfection. Moral and spiritual perfection lies within men and women.

When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.

2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.

3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.

4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.

5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.

6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.

7. Masonry makes Christians abide in a universalist approach in its prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.

8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.

9. By taking the Masonic obligation, he is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

As you can see, Masonry denies and contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture and numerous issues. Masonry also requires people to engage in activities which the Bible condemns. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Free Masonry.

Again, for more information, we strongly recommend Ex-Masons for Jesus.

© Copyright 2002-2007 Got Questions Ministries.

P.S. The author of this article also says that,

"There are also good and godly men, true believers in Christ who are Free Masons. It is our contention that this is because they do not truly understand Freemasonry. Each person should pray for wisdom and discernment from the Lord as to whether to be involved with Free Masonry."

However, it is our (Order of Former Freemasons and Ex-Masons for Jesus) contention that if a man persist in Masonry after understanding these points of its Biblical incompatibility, then they have not exercised wisdom or discernment, but rather stubbornness and denial. As a result, they seriously call into question whether or not they are true believers in Jesus Christ.

 

[Rev Wayne]

As a man of the cloth, I am positive that you agree such things are best taken to God for the answers.

As one who has consistently "taken such things to God for the answers" for the 20+ years since God reclaimed my life, I totally agree. That's why it took years before I actually joined, because I had to make sure it was settled in my heart with the Lord Jesus Christ before ever joining. The thing is, there are so many accusers who automatically have this faulty conception of Freemasonry as a religion on its own, and another error arises from that faulty presupposition, they think that Masons either made a choice for the Lodge as non-Christians, or they jettisoned their faith in Christ by joining. That's simply an absurd notion. The majority of Masons by far ARE Christians, and find no conflict between their Christian faith and lodge membership.

Yes, I "took it to God" very strongly when all my wrangling with all the voices telling me one way and then the other had brought to a point where turning it over to Jesus was the only thing I COULD do. When He gave the peace and the assurance that this was what He would have me do, then I gave in to Him.

PS: you still never answered the question I posted several times.

Since it apparently wasn't on this page, maybe you could find it within yourself to post it again, so I might have a clue what you're talking about. I might remind you, I've been more out than in for the past week, and when I have been in, I haven't had a chance for a thorough read of everything that posted in between times. So apparently I misssed something and you've reposted at a time I was away, and are misinterpreting it as a "refusal to answer." I'll be happy to respond to your question, but several pages have gone by on this thread, and it would be a lot simpler to ask you to repost it than it would be for me to dig for it when I have no clue what page it might be on.

And to be fair, when I DO respond, I will expect answers to the questions I posted in response to your accusation above, which of course, you would not even acknowledge as being directed toward me.

 

[Rev Wayne]

The Bible’s View: Jesus became the sinner’s sacrifice before God when He shed His blood and died as the propitiation (payment) for the sins of the whole world (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8, John 3:16).

This is my view also. Jesus is and has always been my only salvation.

The Bible’s View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

You and I could probably wrangle all day long hammering out the nuances of "inerrancy," but essentially I am in agreement here also.

The Bible’s View:
There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other Gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

I don't worship idols and have not seen anything even remotely resembling an idol in lodge.

The Bible’s View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus’ name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Here's where we part company. I agree about "proclaiming Him before others," but I don't agree about the "regardless of offense" part. I am reminded constantly in my own position as pastor of Paul's admonition about "giving no offense in anything, that the ministry be not blamed." (2 Cor. 6:3) Nor would I agree with your ideas, apparently, about "praying in Jesus' name," since you seem to believe we are commanded to do so. I see no such command in Scripture. But I do pray in Jesus' name, even in extemporaneous prayers during lodge.

The Bible’s View:
All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that humanity, since the Fall, has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

No real disagreement here either. But I think you have the wrong idea about the "capacity for moral perfection," because I do not see in Masonry any proclamation that we have this capability "within ourselves," either. And I think the main reason that you DO think so, is that you have bought into the bill of goods that others like Ankerberg/Weldon and Tsoukalas have been selling, namely, emphasizing the things they see in the apron lecture and the common gavel, to the point that they try to make it appear that these are the only places these are addressed in Masonry. Masonry elsewhere, and in every way, emphasizes dependence upon God in all they teach--but it gets pretty hard to find when the accusers ellipse such things out every time they quote from Masonic sources.

A prime example of it is found in the critique of the Tsoukalas article, which apparently you missed. He excised from his citation of the opening prayer:

Thou hast promised that, "where two or three are gathered together in thy name, thou wilt be in the midst of them, and bless them." In thy name we assemble, most humbly beseeching thee to bless us in all our undertakings, that we may know and serve thee aright, and that all our actions may tend to thy glory, and to our advancement in knowledge and virtue.

Notice the basis upon which the "advancement in knowledge and virtue" is based: a petition to God to "bless us in ALL our undertakings," a desire that we might "know and serve thee aright," and a desire that "all our actions may tend to thy glory."

This prayer is prayed EACH TIME the Lodge is opened. Therefore, all that takes place is couched beforehand in petitions to God for His blessing, for divine aid in knowing and serving Him, and for our actions to bring glory to God.

When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.

2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.

3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.

4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.

5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.

6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.

7. Masonry makes Christians abide in a universalist approach in its prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.

8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.

9. By taking the Masonic obligation, he is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

As you can see, Masonry denies and contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture and numerous issues. Masonry also requires people to engage in activities which the Bible condemns. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Free Masonry.

Having dealt with each of these extensively in the past, and finding that none of the claims have the least merit, I reject the list in toto rather than feel any need to do a point-by-point exposition of the blatant errors and false assumptions on which they are based, AGAIN. Most of the error overall can be attributed to the false assumption that "Masonry is a religion." It is not, and makes no claims to be. Even the accusers give tacit admission it is not when they make accusations about "Muslim Masons," "Jewish Masons," etc. etc., never realizing their own inconsistency in refusing to acknowledge "Christian Masons" among them when composing their lists. It certainly isn't the only error the accusers of Masonry have made, but it definitely is the over-arching one, and is the primary presupposition behind all their fruitless and useless endeavor.

There is one that stands out, however, #5:

By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.

As we've pointed out many times over, the consistent biblical view about oaths is in condemnation of false oaths and in not fulfilling oaths taken. The only persons who thus would have "taken the name of the Lord in vain" would be those who had no intentions of keeping them, or those who later reneged on them after having taken them.

Apparently when it comes to Masonry's accusers, there really is "nothing new under the sun."

 

[George the 3rd]

If this were the stated objectives of every Grand Lodge of Freemasonry, I would run and get reinstated tomorrow!

Then, as you well know, it would no longer be Freemasonry. Freemasonry is built on mutual respect and Brotherhood, not exclusion and insults.

 

[O.F.F.]

But I think you have the wrong idea about the "capacity for moral perfection," because I do not see in Masonry any proclamation that we have this capability "within ourselves,"

Then I guess you are either being deliberately dishonest, or you must have forgotten the lecture you were given regarding the "Rough and Perfect Ashlar." Let me provide a few examples from 3 different Grand Lodges. Perhaps you can share with us yours from SC. I bet it says pretty much the same thing.

By the Rough Ashlar we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the Perfect Ashlar, of that state of perfection at which we hope to arrive by a virtuous education, OUR OWN ENDEAVOR, and the blessing of God; and by the Trestle-Board, we are also reminded that, as the operative workman erects his temporal building agreeably to the rules and designs laid down by the Master on his Trestle-Board, so should we, as Speculative Masons, endeavor to erect our spiritual building agreeably to the rules and designs laid down by the Supreme Architect of the Universe, in the great volume of nature and revelations, which is our moral and Masonic Trestle-Board.

Masonic Official Monitor Texas: Entered Apprentice p. 27 (emphasis added)

The ROUGH ASHLAR is a stone as taken from the quarry in its rude and natural state. The PERFECT ASHLAR is a stone made ready by the hands of the workman, to be adjusted by the tools of the Fellow Craft. The TRESTLE BOARD is for the Master Workman to draw his designs upon.

By the ROUGH ASHLAR, we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the PERFECT ASHLAR, that state of perfection at which we hope to arrive, by a virtuous education, OUR OWN ENDEAVOR, and the blessing of God; and by the TRESTLE BOARD, we are reminded that as the operative workman erects his temporal building agreeably to the rules and designs laid down by the master on his Trestle Board, so should we, both operative and speculative, endeavor to erect our spiritual building agreeably to the rules and designs laid down by the Supreme Architect of the Universe, in the Book of Life, which is our spiritual Trestle Board.

MASONIC MANUAL and Monitorial Instructions of the Grand Lodge of A. F. & A. M. of Minnesota p. 30-31 (emphasis added)

The Movable Jewels are the Rough Ashlar, the Perfect Ashlar, and the Trestle-board. The Rough Ashlar is a stone in its rude and natural state, as taken from the quarry; the Perfect Ashlar, one prepared by the workmen, to be adjusted by the working tools of a Fellow Craft; and the Trestleboard is for the master workman to draw his designs upon.

By the Rough Ashlar we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the Perfect Ashlar, of that state of perfection at which we hope to arrive by aid of a virtuous education, OUR OWN ENDEAVOR and the blessing of Deity; and as the operative workman erects his temporal building in accordance with the designs laid down upon the Trestle-board by the master workman, so should we, both operative and speculative, endeavor to erect our spiritual building in accordance with the designs laid down by the Supreme Architect of the Universe in the Great Book of Nature and Revelation, which is our spiritual, moral and Masonic Trestle-board.

Entered Apprentice Degree of Freemasonry, Grand Lodge of Nevada, p. 16-17 (emphasis added)

Notice how in each example, that Masons are taught to arrive at a state of PERFECTION, by their OWN ENDEAVOR. And what does it say that they endeavor to do? Erect their spiritual building. Only Jesus Christ can build spiritual and moral character by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But is this what the Lodge teaches? Of course not; there is no mention of Jesus or the Holy Spirit in this lecture. Instead, Masons are told they can do it themselves by WORKS (a virtuous education and their own endeavors). But let's not neglect the fact that they say it also happens by the blessings of a generic 'god' representative of ALL religions so that each Mason can substitute the name of his god with the term 'Supreme Architect of the Universe.' And, "in accordance with the designs laid down", not in the Holy Bible, but in the Book of Nature, or Book of Life and Revelation deem appropriate by the individual Mason.

Why would a Christian, especially one who professes to be a pastor, partake in such nonsense that undermines Scriptures, the exclusivity of the God of the Bible (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), and the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit?

 

[brimac]

Freemasonry is absolutely not compatible with Christianity. It is rooted in Satanism!

 

[George the 3rd]

Freemasonry is absolutely not compatible with Christianity. It is rooted in Satanism!

I'm glad you cleared that up for us, we've been discussing the pro's and con's for quite some time now.

 

[brimac]

I'm glad you cleared that up for us, we've been discussing the pro's and con's for quite some time now.

what pros and cons? If it is rooted in Satanism, there are no pros!

 

[George the 3rd]

If it is rooted in Satanism, there are no pros!

If that is your position, then there is no discussion possible.

 

[brimac]

If that is your position, then there is no discussion possible.

would you not agree that Satanism and Christianity are in diametric opposition to each other?

 

[George the 3rd]

would you not agree that Satanism and Christianity are in diametric opposition to each other?

You have yet to establish, other than your opinion, that Freemasonry = Satanism.

That having been said, of course Satanism and Christianity are in diametric opposition. Now, rather than make statements that you have not supported with facts, join the debate and make it clear to me and anyone else that Freemasonry = Satanism and I will then agree with you that "Freemasonry is absolutely not compatible with Christianity. It is rooted in Satanism!"

 

[AndrewCS]

You have yet to establish, other than your opinion, that Freemasonry = Satanism.

That having been said, of course Satanism and Christianity are in diametric opposition. Now, rather than make statements that you have not supported with facts, join the debate and make it clear to me and anyone else that Freemasonry = Satanism and I will then agree with you that "Freemasonry is absolutely not compatible with Christianity. It is rooted in Satanism!"

Gee,

If all Christian’s faith was based on “show me the facts”, we would really have a hard time.

Faith is believing without _______________

 

[Rev Wayne]

By the Rough Ashlar we are reminded of our rude and imperfect state by nature; by the Perfect Ashlar, of that state of perfection at which we hope to arrive by a virtuous education, our own endeavor, and the blessing of God; and by the Trestle-Board, we are also reminded that, as the operative workman erects his temporal building agreeably to the rules and designs laid down by the Master on his Trestle-Board, so should we, as Speculative Masons, endeavor to erect our spiritual building agreeably to the rules and designs laid down by the Supreme Architect of the Universe, in the great volume of nature and revelations, which is our moral and Masonic Trestle-Board.

Masonic Official Monitor Texas: Entered Apprentice p. 27 (emphasis added)

Ah, yes, “emphasis added.” Now take a look above at the same quote as I have re-emphasized, and put the emphasis in bold on what you obviously missed, and which establishes what I have already said.

But let's not neglect the fact that they say it also happens by the blessings of a generic 'god' representative of ALL religions so that each Mason can substitute the name of his god with the term 'Supreme Architect of the Universe.' And, "in accordance with the designs laid down", not in the Holy Bible, but in the Book of Nature, or Book of Life and Revelation deem appropriate by the individual Mason.

Now in that you are wrong, because you have misapprehended the use of the generic, which is not "to combine all," but only to come together on neutral or common ground. (They are not, after all, a religion.) You have also quoted from Grand Lodges which have the HOLY BIBLE as their “Great Book.” From the Minnesota Manual:

The Volume of Sacred Law
An open volume of Sacred Law (Holy Bible) which includes the Old and New Testaments shall be displayed upon the altar at all Stated and Special Communications.

Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments—THAT is their “Book of Life.” From the Minnesota Manual also, the opening prayer:

PRAYER AT OPENING

Most holy and glorious Lord God, the great Architect of the Universe, the Giver of all good gifts and graces! Thou hast promised that "where two or three are gathered together in Thy name Thou wilt be in the midst of them and bless them." In Thy name we have assembled, and in Thy name we desire to proceed in all our doings. Grant that the sublime principles of Freemasonry may so subdue every discordant passion within us; so harmonize and enrich our hearts with Thine own love and goodness - that the Lodge at this time may humbly reflect that order and beauty which reign forever before Thy throne.–Amen.

Note the underline highlight I added. Only one person said that, to my recollection. You may rant and rave about what “Masonry” says all you wish, but you have quoted from MINNESOTA, and in the Minnesota opening prayer, they pray to the one who said “WHERE TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN THY NAME THOU WILT BE IN THE MIDST OF THEM AND BLESS THEM.”

Now let’s see if you are informed enough to figure out who that is.

Texas Monitor:

Most holy and glorious Lord God, the Great Architect of the Universe: the giver of all good gifts and graces: Thou hast promised that where two or three are gathered together in Thy name, Thou wilt be in the midst of them. In Thy name we assemble, most humbly beseeching Thee to bless us in all our undertakings, that we may know and serve Thee aright, and that all our actions may tend to Thy glory and to our advancement in knowledge and virtue; and we beseech Thee, O Lord God, to bless this our present assembling, and to illuminate our minds by the divine precepts of Thy Holy Word, and teach us to walk in the light of Thy countenance; and when the trials of our probationary state are over, be admitted into THE TEMPLE "not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens." Amen.

Again, I have added highlights also, to point out again: before Lodge is considered open, this prayer is first prayed. Thus Masons have already committed themselves to the one who said “where two or three are gathered in my name, I will be there in the midst of them”; they have already asked to “know and serve Him aright”; they have prayed for HIM to be the SOURCE of their “advancement in knowledge and virtue”; they have prayed to have their minds illumined by the Holy Word of God; and they have prayed for Him to teach them to walk in his light.

Thus, whatever “efforts” they may undertake after that to act in accordance with the things they have prayed for God to do, can in no way be construed as “works.” That is a false characterization, and one very limited in scope when it comes to ALL that Masonry says on these things, and not just that which you slice and dice to create accusations. The opening prayer, by the way, is one of only a very few parts of Masonic ritual that I have found to be uniform in practically all jurisdictions. (Actually, it is the ONLY one I have found that is so. But I have not checked out every aspect of ritual as thoroughly as I have this one.)

Now for the SCRIPTURAL connections that support this:

Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God—Heb. 6:1

Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.—1 Kings 8:61

Then the people rejoiced, for that they offered willingly, because with perfect heart they offered willingly to the Lord—1 Chronicles 29:9

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.—Matthew 5:48

Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith.—1 Thess. 3:10

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

But another, and even more obvious refutation of your position:

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For IF these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for IF ye do these things, ye shall never fall
(2 Peter 1:5-10)

Perfection is commanded by Jesus Christ; described on the same level of necessity with faith by James; acknowledged repeatedly by Paul; and put in terms of ABSOLUTE ESSENTIALITY by Peter.

Moreover, Peter puts a large part of the emphasis on what WE do. Surely it doesn’t escape your attention that most of the things Peter lists here are described by Paul in Galatians 5:22 as “spiritual fruits.” Yet apparently the fruit still has to be picked, for Peter is explicit in what he says: “GIVING ALL DILIGENCE”…..ADD…..THESE THINGS…..MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE…..IF YOU DO……YE SHALL NEVER FALL.” These are all ACTION words, calling upon the response of faith in cooperating with the work of God within.

So by your estimation, Peter must be in error too? Peter must also be telling people to do things “by their own power?” After all, even though election is in the counsels of God, does he not say here to “make your election SURE?” How can that BE?

And the lodge does no different, except that in reality, they probably do not state it in terms as strongly indicative of self-effort as Peter does!

But I know the drill, and what comes next: you will counter with, “But Masonry tells this to ALL Masons, whether they are Christian or not, that’s the difference.”

But if you were to be honest about it, surely you remember that you and others have in the past stated that not everyone who comes to church and occupies a pew on Sunday is truly a Christian. (In fact, someone on one of these boards placed the figure as high as 85% who were NOT!). So when I preach this text in church on Sunday, I am presenting it to those who are not Christian as well, by that reckoning.

To which, of course, you will reply, “But the object there is to lead them to Christ.”

To which I say, SPLENDID! Then Masons are apparently a step ahead, because most of them were professing Christians before they ever joined. And if you want to use the 85% figure someone suggested here, the figures I have seen suggest that 85% or more of Masons are professing Christians. Some have the figure as high as 95%.

So who knows, if we allow for some stretching of the figures on either side, and allow that the extremes claimed may not be actual figures, who knows, both the church and the lodge might come together somewhere in the middle as to what percentage Christians occupy each organization.

Why would a Christian, especially one who professes to be a pastor, partake in such nonsense that undermines Scriptures and the exclusivity of the God of the Bible (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)?

I see nothing of Scripture “undermined.” Scripture is teaching salvation, Masonry is simply teaching a man to be a better person—even though the same moral principles are involved, they are very different. Christianity teaches the same principles of morality as Masonry does, but Christianity also teaches the principles of Christian faith. Masonry teaches principles of morality, which, while derived from the same scriptural principles and precepts as the Christian faith, Masonry does not go beyond teaching the moral precepts, for teaching morality is Masonry's purpose and scope.

 

[O.F.F.]

Ah, yes, “emphasis added.” Now take a look above at the same quote as I have re-emphasized, and put the emphasis in bold on what you obviously missed, and which establishes what I have already said.

Ah, but your emphasis ignores the WORKS of a Mason to become perfect, namely; a VIRTUOUS EDUCATION and ones OWN ENDEAVOR.

Now in that you are wrong, because you have misapprehended the use of the generic, which is not "to combine all," but only to come together on neutral or common ground.

No sir, you are wrong, because you misinterpret the use of the generic, which IS "to unite all" Masons under one "common god" (a common Supreme Being -- hence the requirement for membership) to suffice all religions, and kneel at one common altar in order to combine all Masons into one "religion in which they all can agree" -- The Religion of Freemasonry.

As for your so-called quote of the Minnesota Manual, please cite the edition, year and page number. The one I have is the most current, to my knowledge, and it says this about the VSL:

Volume of the Sacred Law

An open volume of the Sacred Law, "the rule and guide of life," is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law to a Christian is the Bible; to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book held holy by them.

MASONIC MANUAL, Grand Lodge of Minnesota, Revised Edition 1998, page 16

So the Grand Lodge of MN appears to be consistent with others, by alluding to the the fact that the Bible is NOT the one and only exclusive Volume of Sacred Law. It is merely a symbol representative of ALL so-called sacred writings deemed 'holy' by the individual Mason.

The following link to an article from the Grand Lodge of Indiana will confirm this fact:

While the anti-mason quickly points to the Holy Bible, or Volume of Sacred Law which rests upon our altar, and claims that it is proof of our fraternity’s religious nature, it is merely a misunderstanding of the uninitiated. To the initiate it should be clear that the book that rests upon our altar, whatever it might be, is a symbol only. . .

The fact that Indiana ritual specifically refers to the Volume of Sacred Law as the “Holy Bible” is not really sectarian at all. The term “Bible” literally means “book” and we nowhere mention in our ceremony or lectures that the Holy Book we refer to is specifically Christian. In fact, many Lodges in Indiana use multiple Holy Books upon their altar to demonstrate the universality of Freemasonry. . .

The Volume of Sacred Law, submitted by Rick P. on Wed, 10/04/2006, Grand Lodge of Indiana (emphasis added)

Finally, just because you can find places where the Lodge quotes Scripture is no indication that it honors Jesus Christ or the the God of the Bible. It is merely a mockery of the Word of God designed to bring about its own self-centered, works-based, universal purpose of establishing a sycrenistic religion which include members that reject our Lord and Savior.

It is offensive to our faith that an organization that self-proclaims that it is NOT Christian, or sectarian in any shape or form, would then use Holy Scripture out of context for its own purpose. It is much worse that one who professes to be a Christian pastor would join and defend such an organization. And your membership is proof of your tacit agreement with every thing it stands for, the least of which is any semblance of honoring God.

Furthermore, the passages you quote regarding "being perfect" are written to BELIEVERS (1 Kings 8:61, 1 Chronicles 29:9, Matthew 5:48, and 1 Thess. 3:10), not non-believers. Believers in false gods, including Masons of these false religion, do not acknowledge the God of the Bible. Therefore, such Masons do not walk in his statutes, or keep His commandments -- neither do Masons who claim to be Christians. They are too busy walking in the statutes of their Koran, Vedas, Upanishads, or the doctrines of Freemasonry -- as you do.

Finally, let me remind you pastor of the most important statement made by the "author and perfector of our faith" (Hebrew 12:2) to his disciples (again, believers):

APART FROM ME YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING! (John 15:5)

So you can twist Scripture, like Masonry does, all you want. You are only deceiving yourself. But no one, including YOU can do anything to make ones self perfect apart from submitting ones will to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:2).

 

[Rev Wayne]

Ah, but your emphasis ignores the WORKS of a Mason to become perfect, namely; a VIRTUOUS EDUCATION and ones OWN ENDEAVOR.

Why do you keep omitting the most important part that was included in that statement? Namely, “and the blessing of GOD??” Do you not consider that important? Strange.

You seem to have this idea that God just drops the whole ball of wax down upon us and all we ever do is sit and soak it up. You forget the admonition of James that an inactive faith is NO faith.