Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

[G19]

I suppose we all wonder about such well-known personalities from time to time. I did some real digging before concerning John Wesley, after finding out that he had preached at the Masonic Lodge in Savannah during his brief sojourn in Georgia.

That's interesting. Solomon's lodge #1 in Savannah is the oldest continuously operating lodge in the U.S. (est 1734). It was a small community so there's no doubt the Wesley bros would be intimately familiar with the fraternity.

One thing I did turn up with the research, there was a Samuel Wesley, son of John's brother Charles, who most definitely WAS a Mason, for he was made the Grand Organist of the UGLE.

I found that as well. I also heard that Wesley's dad may have been a member; and of course the persistent rumors about Charles.

 

[O.F.F.]

Now THIS is interesting: guess who apparently was made a Mason in the Pre-Grand Lodge era?

What you posted is just as much a Masonic fabrication as the Hiramic Legend connection with Kings Solomon's Temple. Unless you can provide proof of Luther's name ever being on the rolls of a Grand Lodge, you cannot make such a claim.

But what we do know, is the fact that the Luthran Church has an official position against Freemasonry:

Masons

Q. Could someone please explain briefly why Masons are not allowed in the Lutheran Church?

A. Bylaw 3.925 of the Synod's Handbook summarizes the rationale for the Synod's longstanding position on the lodges: "Pastors and laypeople must avoid membership or participation in any organization that in its objectives, ceremonies, or practices is inimical to the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the faith and life of the Christian church." It is because tenets and practices of Freemasonry conflict with the biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ that our church from its very beginning has held that membership in this organization conflicts with a faithful confession of this Gospel.

The the LCMS's Position against Freemasonry

 

[George the 3rd]

But what we do know, is the fact that the Luthran Church has an official position against Freemasonry:

While not an issue in the majority of Lutheran church bodies, a few of them forbid membership in Freemasonry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism

 

[Rev Wayne]

What you posted is just as much a Masonic fabrication as the Hiramic Legend connection with Kings Solomon's Temple. Unless you can provide proof of Luther's name ever being on the rolls of a Grand Lodge, you cannot make such a claim.

"Claim?" What "claim?" Since you wish to make such a big deal about what you feel I "claimed," it might be a significant educational experience for you to review my post and read what I actually SAID. In the very first post where the quote appears, the only comment I made other than the quote itself was:

Now THIS is interesting: guess who apparently was made a Mason in the Pre-Grand Lodge era?

So now you are apparently demanding that I produce proof that Martin Luther's name appears on the roll of a Grand Lodge during the pre-Grand Lodge era???

Sounds like the same thing you were doing while ago, framing questions in ways that they cannot be answered.

No one said anything at all about Martin Luther having his name on the roll of a Grand Lodge. You know good and well there was no such thing as a Grand Lodge until 1717, which is long after Luther died. So in other words, I think you are being quite disingenuous and perhaps even facetious by even making such a demand.

Besides, as I also pointed out in a subsequent post, I would question whether the story as related by Row was genuine, since it appears to be anachronistic. However, this letter apparently is not the only basis on which Masonic connections have been made, since your comrades-in-arms at freemasonrywatch seem pretty convinced of Luther's associations. However, I've not been able to confirm anything from FW's supposed sources, as the links do not come up when followed.

But what we do know, is the fact that the Luthran Church has an official position against Freemasonry

No, what we DO KNOW is, the Lutheran Church MISSOURI SYNOD has an official position against Freemasonry. LCMS is not "THE" Lutheran Church.

 

[O.F.F.]

"Claim?" What "claim?" Since you wish to make such a big deal about what you feel I "claimed," it might be a significant educational experience for you to review my post and read what I actually SAID. In the very first post where the quote appears, the only comment I made other than the quote itself was:

So now you are apparently demanding that I produce proof that Martin Luther's name appears on the roll of a Grand Lodge during the pre-Grand Lodge era???

Sounds like the same thing you were doing while ago, framing questions in ways that they cannot be answered.

No one said anything at all about Martin Luther having his name on the roll of a Grand Lodge. You know good and well there was no such thing as a Grand Lodge until 1717, which is long after Luther died. So in other words, I think you are being quite disingenuous and perhaps even facetious by even making such a demand.

Besides, as I also pointed out in a subsequent post, I would question whether the story as related by Row was genuine, since it appears to be anachronistic. However, this letter apparently is not the only basis on which Masonic connections have been made, since your comrades-in-arms at freemasonrywatch seem pretty convinced of Luther's associations. However, I've not been able to confirm anything from FW's supposed sources, as the links do not come up when followed.

No, what we DO KNOW is, the Lutheran Church MISSOURI SYNOD has an official position against Freemasonry. LCMS is not "THE" Lutheran Church.

Okay, your right, my bad. Sometimes I skim through the posts and read them so fast I miss things. Please accept my apology. It's hard to slow down when you're busy, but I will try to do so as best I can.

 

[George the 3rd]

Okay, your right*, my bad. Sometimes I skim through the posts and read them so fast I miss things. Please accept my apology. It's hard to slow down when you're busy, but I will try to do so as best I can.

*Who are you and what have you done with our Mike, the one we all know and love?!

 

[G19]

I do that from time to time as well Mike.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Compatibility is the topic, and compatibility is certainly there, else there would not be so much of Christian content in so much of Masonry, nor would the symbols lend themselves to such easy recognition to Christian interpretation, nor would there be such abundant content of Scriptural expressions within ritual content, as has already been shown a few pages ago. It has also been shown that the central teachings of Christianity are taught centrally in Masonry as well. Since there has been continued skepticism and even mocking on that point, consider the following:

Faith cannot exist for a moment without the up- springing of hope and charity. The great law of charity is expressed in the words of our Lord, when one asked Him, "Which is the great commandment in the law?" (Matt, xxii. 36), a question founded on a prevalent notion of the Jews,—a notion which implies an utter misapprehension of the nature of the divine law, and a fatal error as to the very first principles of religion—that there was some one of God's commandments, if they could but discover which it was, the observance of which was more regarded by God than that of any or all the rest, and would compensate for much neglect or transgression of them." Jesus said unto him, THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matt. xxii. 37-40). Thus He taught, in fact, that these two commandments are, as it is expressed in the Westminster Assembly's Shorter Catechism, "the sum of the moral law." And it is easy to see that the observance of them implies an observance of every commandment. The man who loves God cannot but desire to keep, and delight in keeping, His commandments; in which are included all our duties towards our fellow men and towards ourselves, as well as our duties towards God, the duties of faith, piety, and worship; so that the second of the two great commandments evidently depends upon the first, and may almost be regarded as included in it, certainly at least flowing from it of necessary consequence. With this view of the nature of charity, its connection with faith, and its relation to all the duties enjoined by the divine law, accord the words of the Apostle John—"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God and knoweth God" (1 John iv. 7) ; " This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments" (1 John v. 3); and those of the Apostle Paul, "But as touching brotherly love, ye need not that I write unto you, for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another" (1 Thess. iv. 9) ; "Now, the end of the commandment is charity, out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and faith unfeigned" (1 Tim. i. 5). It is proper here to observe that the words Charity and Love are used indiscriminately in the authorised English version of the Bible to translate the same Greek word, and are therefore to be looked upon as perfectly synonymous, although for obvious reasons the former word is never used where love to God alone is spoken of, being used, however, as in the thirteenth chapter of the First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, and in the text last quoted, where both love to God and love to man are included in the application of the term. This last quoted text, "Now, the end of the commandment is charity," & c., shows unmistakably the great importance of this grace as the very fruit and forthcoming of the life of faith. To the same effect is the language of the apostle in the First Epistle to the Corinthians. "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing" (1 Cor. xiii. 1—3). And concerning the relation of the grace of charity to the grace of faith, we have clear evidence in the argument used by the same apostle, in his Second Epistle to the Corinthians, when—exhorting them to abound in this grace, and to display it in contributing liberally for the relief of the poor saints : "Therefore, as ye abound in everything, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us; see that ye abound in this grace also"—he thus enforces his exhortation, and suggests a reason and motive for compliance with it, "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that ye through His poverty might be rich" (2 Cor. viii. 9). Liberality, proceeding from this motive, must, indeed, be esteemed as proceeding from true charity: it is the fruit of faith working by love.

That the law of charity, "thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself," includes all our relative duties, and is the sum of all the commandments of the second table of the law, is strongly asserted by the Apostle Paul, in his Epistle to the Romans. "Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law" (Rom. xiii. 8-10). And so the Apostle James also says, "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the Scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well" (James ii. 8).

(Chalmers Izett Paton, Freemasonry, its Symbolism, Religious Nature, p. 431-33, emphasis is just as it appears in the original)

You might as well ask whether Christianity is compatible with Christianity. And this is the tip of the iceberg for compatibility, Masonry is RICH with such elaboration upon its principles, in the writings of its members.

 

[AndrewCS]

Rev,

I really have to ask.

You obviously studied to become ordained .Do you really feel that such time & energy defending the Freemasons is really God has called you to do

 

[George the 3rd]

You might as well ask whether Christianity is compatible with Christianity.

Well, if you are asking if the Christianity that was presented and demonstrated by Christ is compatible with the way His teachings are interpreted and lived by many who call themselves Christian and the Official doctrines of the various denominations that they claim membership in, I would have to say, sadly, no.

Christ brought a message of love, compassion and forgiveness to a brutal world where human life and the soul was given very little regard. Mere survival and avoiding Rome's tyranny was a full time job. Yet Christ showed those He came into contact with that there was more than mere existence. He taught us to not worry about our own selfish needs and desires and seek out those who were in need, suffering and friendless.

From my experiences and in my humble opinion, Freemasonry has one primary objective and that is to demonstrate, symbolically and through example, those attributes Christ Himself inculcated. That is why I have always felt that the "best" Masons are those men who strive to be the best Christian they can be, not just in words but in action. I have also seen those who came to Masonry not necessarily strong in their Christian faith become more committed to family and friends and grow in their involvement not only in the community at large but also in their church.

 

[G19]

Do you really feel that such time & energy defending the Freemasons is really God has called you to do

I'm not Rev Wayne but as a former worship minister with formal theological training this is something I can relate to as well. I don't feel the least bit compelled to be a masonic apologist, but I can't stand by and allow manipulation to go unchallenged.

The vast majority of antimasonic scholarship is so poorly done it is an offense to both the gospel and christianity. It is more akin to rumor mills or water-cooler theology than it is to sound logic. As a Christian we are not called to leave behind reason or intellect in favor of blind faith. Christian manipulators however count on an ignorant following in order to fleece their respective flocks.

These type of pastors need an enemy and Freemasonry, due to its history and tradition of NOT responding to critics, is an easy target. They use the supposed "secrecy" of the fraternity to spread fear-based rhetoric. They spread half-truths and perpetuate outright lies (I still hear people use the Taxil Hoax) in order to make people think that they need to support "the ministry" to save the world from this secret threat.

In the late 80s and early 90s, http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/False Memory, Satanic Ritual Abuse and subliminal messages in music played backward was a constant topic. Many pastors cashed in on the furor but virtually none of them bothered to check the facts. Evangelists like Mike Warnke took advantage of the Christian community's willingness to be stupid and he made millions selling lies. The topic of freemasonry came back up during this time and was pushed by a few outspoken, but misguided individuals like James Holly. Sadly, Christians aren't taught or encouraged to think for themselves and use their God-given intellect.

Even respected websites use bad scholarship and shoddy research to make a case against the fraternity. This doesn't have to happen today with information so readily available. Never before have we been able to check facts and validate sources. So, all I'm saying is that Christians need to think first before blindly submitting to fallible humans making such egregious claims.

 

[Albion]

I'm not Rev Wayne but as a former worship minister with formal theological training this is something I can relate to as well. I don't feel the least bit compelled to be a masonic apologist, but I can't stand by and allow manipulation to go unchallenged.

The vast majority of antimasonic scholarship is so poorly done it is an offense to both the gospel and christianity. It is more akin to rumor mills or water-cooler theology than it is to sound logic. As a Christian we are not called to leave behind reason or intellect in favor of blind faith. Christian manipulators however count on an ignorant following in order to fleece their respective flocks.

These type of pastors need an enemy and Freemasonry, due to its history and tradition of NOT responding to critics, is an easy target. They use the supposed "secrecy" of the fraternity to spread fear-based rhetoric. They spread half-truths and perpetuate outright lies (I still hear people use the Taxil Hoax) in order to make people think that they need to support "the ministry" to save the world from this secret threat.

In the late 80s and early 90s, False Memory, Satanic Ritual Abuse and subliminal messages in music played backward was a constant topic. Many pastors cashed in on the furor but virtually none of them bothered to check the facts. Evangelists like Mike Warnke took advantage of the Christian community's willingness to be stupid and he made millions selling lies. The topic of freemasonry came back up during this time and was pushed by a few outspoken, but misguided individuals like James Holly. Sadly, Christians aren't taught or encouraged to think for themselves and use their God-given intellect.

Even respected websites use bad scholarship and shoddy research to make a case against the fraternity. This doesn't have to happen today with information so readily available. Never before have we been able to check facts and validate sources. So, all I'm saying is that Christians need to think first before blindly submitting to fallible humans making such egregious claims.

I have to agree. Having studied the anti-Masonic literature and sites...and also the Masonic answers, I have found NOT ONE instance of an anti-Masonic charge holding up conclusively. I've also found what you report--very shoddy scholarship and logic on almost every anti-Masonic site. When I can see through the denunciations as badly flawed, I can only conclude that the opposition is 1) without facts but long on hearsay, 2) overly eager to find conspiracies, 3) given to wild generalizations, and 4) not appreciative of the fact that whatever symbols, etc. Masonry uses, NO MEMBER IS ASKED TO PRAY TO OR ACKNOWLEDGE ANYTHING that is against his faith. Isn't that the ultimate test as regards a man's fidelity to his Christian faith?

Those Christians who don't believe in taking an oath at any time under any circumstances and those who do not believe it is right to associate with members of other churches, period, ought not to join. However, most Christians, myself included, are not in that category. Beyond that, there is nothing that poses a moral conflict, necessarily, for any Christian man in becoming a Master Mason, the level that is considered a full member.

 

[Albion]

Rev,

I really have to ask.

You obviously studied to become ordained .Do you really feel that such time & energy defending the Freemasons is really God has called you to do

I really can't appreciate such a line of argument, although it's a common debating tactic. I could as well ask you, "Do you really feel that (going to the store/driving a car/taking a vacation/playing any sport/watching TV for relaxation, etc.) is what God has called you to do as a disciple?" In fact, do you do anything but evangelize all day long? Are you ashamed if you do not?

Most of us can chew gum and walk straight at the same time and are able to engage in more than one activity in life. Most of us do engage in social activities. I count both you and Rev Wayne as among those people.

 

[Albion]

No, what we DO KNOW is, the Lutheran Church MISSOURI SYNOD has an official position against Freemasonry. LCMS is not "THE" Lutheran Church.

Indeed, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is twice the size of the LCMS and the largest of the Lutheran bodies in the USA, has no opposition against Masonic membership. I also note that although it is sometimes claimed that the Church of England and Anglicans generally are opposed to membership, the CofE has taken no such stand. And furthermore, the Southern Baptist Convention--sometimes said to oppose Masonry--takes no official stand against membership, either. Now, if the charges made by anti-Masons were even half as clearcut as they think they are, how could these very significant church bodies fail to agree?

The reason for me picking up on this little point is that it appears there is as much hearsay evidence that is actually wrong floating around about what churches say of Masonry as there is with every other claim against it.

 

[NavyGuy7]

Personally I don't see how one can mix freemasonry with christianity. They're like oil and water; they don't mix. I heard they think Jesus and Satan are the same thing, at least the ones really into it....I'm not saying all freemasons think that... but after seeing some of the freemasons symbols and whatnot, I'm convinced the two cannot be mixed.

 

[Albion]

Personally I don't see how one can mix freemasonry with christianity. They're like oil and water; they don't mix. I heard they think Jesus and Satan are the same thing, at least the ones really into it....I'm not saying all freemasons think that... but after seeing some of the freemasons symbols and whatnot, I'm convinced the two cannot be mixed.

"I heard they think Jesus and Satan are the same thing" and THIS settles it for you??

You wouldn't buy a used car or vote for president on such a basis, so how can you condemn an entire organization without actually knowing anything about them? Would you be satisfied if I said here and now, "No, Masons do not think Jesus and Satan are the same thing?"

 

[Rev Wayne]

Do you really feel that such time & energy defending the Freemasons is really God has called you to do

Well, first of all, as for the time and energy, I don't know how much you think this involves, but apparently it's far less than the impression you have of it. I've got a lot of this down to an art. I have a pretty extensive database built up over four years, and I've learned how to find what I want quickly by knowing by experience which keyword for searches. A 2.8 lightspeed computer doesn't hurt either. Being a good skimmer, a 90+ wpm typist, and a practiced cut & paster does the rest.

As for the "calling," God never does anything He does without a reason. When He called me to ministry, He did so in such a way there could be no doubt. It was so powerful I couldn't help but wonder why He chose to do that in that particular way, but in other things He works in ways that are harder to discern. When He finally revealed the reason, it made a lot more sense: all those other things were not nearly as important, and they will not be challenged in the way this calling will. That, at least, has been proved many times over.
And as I have made clear many times before, this was and is a calling as well. After researching it as far as I could take it at the time, with no real inner assurance one way or the other, I made it a matter of prayer and took it to the Lord with an insistence that I would not make the decision without being led by Him, as I have done in all major decisions over the past 20 years since He saved my life from a drug-addicted hell. The fact is, I owe Him my very life and everything I am today, because the path I had chosen, I am convinced, was nearly at an end. I also believe that God strengthens our faith many times by withdrawing/withholding guidance. Many times it seems we don't get answers even after much praying, and I see those as times of strengthening, because He teaches us through that experience to depend more on Him and to seek Him more diligently. It was only after I had sought and sought, and had come to the end of my own efforts at answers, that I began to remove myself from the process and cast it completely on Him. It felt like "dumping" at the time, because I really felt like He was leading me to join, and I just couldn't quite get my head over the hump to where my instincts tried to convince it to go.

Since this is where He leads, it is most certainly worth the effort. When I joined, I was a product of the presence of Masons on the internet. They were there silently witnessing by the very character they showed under fire, that there was much more to them than meets the eye, and that it was not evil, as I had been told. The real convincing moment came when several Christians died, whose witness had been a strong influence on me in my childhood and teen years. Every one of them, I found out by various means, had been Masons. To deny the good they did would be to deny the very influences by which I had come to know Christ. I asked at the ex-Mason website where I had been engaged in debates over the same kinds of issues we discuss here, how I was supposed to understand that, and I started getting the slam-dunk treatment.

One thing for sure, I knew the Masons on that site had something I didn't have, and it showed, more than any other way, in their patience. I was pretty much of a hothead and would give them back as good as they could send. That changed after I joined, and I am at a loss to explain it, it's like a "peace that passes all understanding." It wasn't like an instantaneous zap experience, but it was certainly noticeable, and other people here began to PM me that they were seeing it, too. I have also become more committed to my family, it just seems like my eyes are opened to more issues than before, and along with that improved vision is a quicker first step in being there for them.

When I have mentioned these things in the past, accusers have been quick to step in and try to use the comments to suggest that in doing so, I "give Masonry the glory rather than God." All I know is, I simply tell the truth of what has taken place. And naturally I give God the glory, for after all, I made doubly sure that the decision was going to be His, and not mine.

As always, God knows best. And yes, I suppose it is a "calling" of sorts. In actuality, it's my main contribution to Masonry, to be involved in an internet presence as a counter to the disinformation and nonsense being proliferated as "truth" by so many sources. Some do so in ignorance, some do so for petty gain, some do so in mean-spiritedness. When I joined, the master of the lodge that year was the local Baptist minister, whom I already considered a friend (we took turns preaching a joint Thanksgiving service every year). When I shared with him how I had come to join, he called me exactly what some accusers had called me in derision, a "Masonic apologist"--only he said it approvingly, and encouraged me to continue.

What I found with the calling to ministry, was also true of this calling as well--God had already been at work long beforehand laying the foundation, in the very gifting and abilities that are so well-suited to the task. With the calling to ministry, it was a background in English, a love for sermon preparation, and a love for singing and piano. With debating Freemasonry, other than the things already mentioned, it was a bloodhound instinct in researching, knowing how to dig out things after the 5th and 6th tries that yielded no initial results (that applies to Bible study as well), a willingness to champion the underdog, which the Christian Mason is, for the most part, in the face of all the unfounded accusations and deliberate untruths that have been churned out in recent years.

 

[Albion]

Do you really feel that such time & energy defending the Freemasons is really God has called you to do

Is defending anyone who has been falsely accused a Christian thing to do or not? What do you think? Would a Christian perhaps be called to do something if he sees two men who are to him total strangers and one is beating up on the other, or stealing from him? Or is he supposed instead to read his Bible and testify only?

 

[Rev Wayne]

after seeing some of the freemasons symbols and whatnot, I'm convinced the two cannot be mixed.

Which ones? You see, non-specifics are what the accusation-mongers thrive on. And even when they do get down to specifics, they are generally distorted, either by various methods of mis-quoting, or by selective and creative slicing & dicing, or window-dressing that amounts to false portrayals.

I have not seen a single thing in the symbolism of Masonry that will hold up under scrutiny, to the accusations of evil or satanic connections. Several were already mentioned very recently on another thread. The Washington, D.C. layout was one, and one in which the information is all of the plausible-sounding-but-difficult-to-dispute-by-ordinary-means variety. That's where good instincts and a careful attention to detail come into play. When I saw that everything was being attributed to the intent of the designer, L'enfant, I just had an automatic hunch that the traffic circles on which the circles and squares of the "pentagram" were being based, were probably not there in horseback and horse-and-buggy days. When the research bore this out, the rest fell into place automatically, and the more I looked, the more obvious it became just how bizarre the whole thing is.

With other accusations, it's simply a matter of knowing a little bit about the symbol being targeted. Most symbols have quite a rich and varied history, and are not by any means limited to the one interpretation accusers try to limit it to. Also, they are part of the deliberate distortion I mentioned: accusers very often will state their case while totally ignoring the interpretation Masonry has for its symbols. With Masonry's emphasis on preservation of its rituals and traditions, archaism also plays a part. For instance, "so mote it be" was the subject of many an accusation in the past. But it has been shown that this was a common prayer ending in the medieval times from which it derives.

And on and on and on it goes. . . . .

But I really ought to ask:

Did you have any specific symbols in mind with your comment?

 

[Albion]

Which ones? You see, non-specifics are what the accusation-mongers thrive on. And even when they do get down to specifics, they are generally distorted, either by various methods of mis-quoting, or by selective and creative slicing & dicing, or window-dressing that amounts to false portrayals.

I have not seen a single thing in the symbolism of Masonry that will hold up under scrutiny, to the accusations of evil or satanic connections....But I really ought to ask: Did you have any specific symbols in mind with your comment?

Good. This is exactly what is needed on any thread like this one. Now let's get to the specifics and see what we are dealing with so that we can decide. I don't suppose that the square or compass would be considered incompatible wtih Christianity since both were used in Christian art as implements used by God long before there was Freemasonry. So, I want to know, and thank you for asking.