Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity?

[G19]

Ignorance is dangerous.

 

[George the 3rd]

bluemarkus,

Your photo of the sign that says "GOD LESS AMERICA" carries the clear implication that Masons and Freemasonry are contributing if not primary factors to what some perceive as a turning away from religious or spiritual values within American society.

I am personally offended and feel it has NO PLACE in this discussion. I hope you would reconsider this offensive insult.

George

 

[Rev Wayne]

(Me) So since when do your ideas pre-empt what Jesus says? It was Jesus, after all, who said the most important commandment was to love God with heart, soul, mind, and strength, and that the second was "like it," to love your neighbor as yourself. "On these," He said, "HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS."

(Mike) But Wayne the problem is, in your defense of Freemasonry, you place more emphasis on the Second than on the First and Greatest Commandment.

This was a comment I saw earlier, to which I had planned to respond, but was distracted away from it by all the sidetrackers.

(1) The point we were discussing at the time was the Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It's not that one or the other was being neglected; it's just that the APPLICABLE one of the two Jesus mentioned was the one brought in, because "love your neighbor as yourself" is comparable to the Golden Rule, both of them being reflexive in manner of statement.

(2) I clearly indicated in each context where I mentioned it, which commandment Jesus indicated was first, of the two commandments Jesus gave as the most important.

(3) Although it was not the immediate point of discussion at the time it was brought up, I think it's still a valid point to make, that nobody has shown that Freemasonry does also teach the first of those two commandments as well. For instance:

Supreme Architect of the universe, accept our humble praises for the many mercies and blessings which thy bounty has conferred on us, and especially for this friendly and social intercourse. Pardon, we beseech thee, whatever thou hast seen amiss in us since we have been together; and continue to us thy presence, protection, and blessing. Make us sensible of the renewed obligations we are under to love thee supremely, and to be friendly to each other. May all our irregular passions be subdued, and may we daily increase in Faith, Hope, and Charity; but more especially in that Charity, which is the bond of peace, and the perfection of every virtue May we so practice thy precepts, that, through the merits of the Redeemer, we may finally obtain thy promises, and find an entrance through the gates into the temple and city of our God. So mote it be. Amen.
(Closing Prayer, Ahiman Rezon, 2003, p. 56-57. The prayer also appears in this same exact form in Jeremy Ladd Cross, The True Masonic Chart: Or Hieroglyphic Monitor, New York, Robert B. Collins, 1851, p. 16-17. So not only is this teaching present in Masonry, it has been there unchanged for over 150 years. The same closing prayer may also be found in Andrew J. Utley, The Master Mason’s Guide, 1865, p. 14-15; it is also used in the closing of a lodge of Past Masters, as presented in Albert Mackey’s monitor on Mark, Past, & Most Excellent Masters, p. 61)

And that does not even begin to cover all the places where it CURRENTLY appears in Masonry, which are so numerous I could not list them here.

I did find a significant piece where the same thing is elaborated upon, though:

This material and human investiture of sectarian dogmas changes with the times and seasons; but that religion, in the light of which all Masons, whatever their particular creed, desire to walk—that religion, sent forth into the world with the awful sanction of the DEITY upon it, which, as an Ancient says, " is to visit the widow and the fatherless in their afflictions, and keep one's self unspotted from the world"—that religion, the essence of which is to love God supremely and our neighbors as we love ourselves, can never change; being absolute, it can never pass away, and it may be taught, with all its obligations, duties and hopes, and all its beautiful applications to life, without being trammeled by any sectarian dogmas whatever. About religion, in its absoluteness, neither men nor sects ever dispute or quarrel. No; it shines over the human soul clear and bright, like the eternal stars, visible to all; and always, and everywhere, has her voice been heard, consoling the sorrowful, fortifying the weak, and bidding the souls of men aspire to a celestial communion. Such is the Masonic idea of religion. Freemasonry recognizes God as immanent in all created things, working in each blade of grass, and swelling bud, and opening flower, and looks upon all the sciences as so many divine methods through which the Infinite Artist reveals his mysteries to man. Should any Masonic brother, or any other, think that we are claiming too much for Freemasonry in this respect, we have only to ask him to turn to the " charges" and " lectures" published in our books, to find abundant proofs of what we assert There we read: " The universe is the temple of the Deity whom we serve: Wisdom, Strength and Beauty are around his throne, as pillars of his works; for his wisdom is infinite, his strength is omnipotent, and his beauty shines forth through all his creation." Ancient Freemasonry invariably united all the sciences to the religious sentiment. Of Arithmetic it says: "All the works of the Almighty are made in number, weight, measure, and, therefore, to understand them rightly, we ought to understand arithmetical calculations, and be thereby led to a more comprehensive knowledge of our great Creator." " Astronomy," it says, " is that sublime science which inspires the contemplative mind to soar aloft and read the wisdom and beauty of the Creator in the heavens. How nobly eloquent of God is the celestial hemisphere, spangled with the most magnificent symbology of his infinite glory." Discoursing of Geometry, it says, " By it we discover the power, wisdom and goodness of the Grand Artificer, and view with delight the order and beauty of his works and the proportions which connect all parts of his immense universe." Freemasonry, therefore, in the spirit of true reverence, consecrates all to God— the worlds with their sublime mysteries, and the human mind with its mighty powers and the sciences which it has discovered and explained.
(Macoy, A Dictionary of Freemasonry, p. 324-25)

But what establishes this even more is the common appearance of the expression which Masonry uses, at the very heart of Christian expression as found in Christian devotional and theological writings contemporary with its first appearance in Masonry:

O blessed Being! Thou infinite Father-Spirit and Mother-Spirit of all Life! Help me to love thee supremely for thou art supremely lovely, and help me to feel and care for thy dear human children, that they may become better and happier for my living.
Edwin Dwight Babbitt, Religion as Revealed by the Material and Spiritual Universe, 1881, p. 71)

Fix our eyes on the true, the right, the good, and the holy, till we love them, and therein love thee supremely. May we be blameless in our daily life, and heroic in our conduct, not mistaking the commandments of men for the law of God.
(Sylvan Stanley Hunting, Christian Liturgy, 1873, p. 100)

I love thee supremely, desiring to honour thee aud to obey thee in life and until death. I hold thee, thou Covenant Angel, and I will not let thee go. Dear friends! make this the mark of your life, that you hold him and will not let him go.
(Charles Haddon Spurgeon, The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit: Sermons, 1873, p. 91)

Help us to love thee supremely, and our neighbors as ourselves. Give us our daily bread, and something for those who lack.
(God’s Minute: A Book of 365 Daily Prayers Sixty Seconds Long for Home Worship, 1923, p. 156)

Thou art Faithfulness, and I trust in the performance of thy promises. Thou art the supreme God, and I desire to love thee supremely now and for ever.
(James Stonhouse, Every Man’s Assistant, and the Sick Man’s Friend, 1819, p. 82)

The Lord alone "changes not." Mal. iii. 6. Father in Heaven, help us to love thee supremely, so that we may have an enduring treasure left, when the vines that cluster in beauty and fragrance around our heads, wither like Jonah's gourd from the gnawing of the worm at the root.
(Daniel Harvey Hill, A Consideration of the Sermon on the Mount, 1858, p. 100)

Believe me, these were only a sample of the 10 pages or so that pulled up with a search of this phrase. There's a simple reason Masonry would contain a phrase so commonly found in Christianity of the same time frame, just as there is a simple reason Albert Mackey and other well-known Masons are found citing well-known theological treatises from their time and earlier. Masonry is and has always been made up primarily of Christian believers, and in its earliest times, of only Christian believers. Small surprise to find so much Christian expression within it.

 

[George the 3rd]

bluemarkus,

Your photo of the sign that says "GOD LESS AMERICA" . . . . . .

P.S.

A close and careful observation of the photo will disclose that it is a rather poor job of
"photo-shopping". Clearly, those who posted the sign did not intend it to be a negative message.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Clearly, those who posted the sign did not intend it to be a negative message.

Pardon me for utting in here, ut did anyody esides me notice that apparently a letter was missing? There IS a pretty ig gap, after all, leaving an indentation of the word "less" while oth of the other letters are flush with the edge of the anner.

Also, "godless" is one word, and there is no hyphen after "God." Maye you'd like to rethink this, luemarkus?

 

[Rev Wayne]

And if you look REAL close, you can see the outline of the "B" where it was before it was lost, stolen, removed, or whatever happened to it.

 

[bluemarkus]

No one is more to be pitied than those dedicated to the ignorant persistence of persistent ignorance.

wow now thats a good motto, no wonder your threads always get such a long tail...

god bless america hallelujah !

Markus

 

[Rev Wayne]

no wonder your threads always get such a long tail...

Of course they do. It takes time, after all, for me to respond to all this persistent ignorance--you know, things like making points of non-issues about disabled Masons and banners with missing letters.

 

[O.F.F.]

Well, Mike, you have heard from all three, care to make either a retraction or apology, or both?

No, because I cannot tell from your individual answers that you each answered one of my SPECIFIC questions, which was:

. . .have you ever seen or heard of a wheelchaired, handicap man accepted for initiation as an Entered Apprentice?

I will not presume by your replies, that this question was answered.

If each of you can show adequate proof of this, then I will gladly apologize. But please note that such an apology would not exonerate Freemasonry from being incompatible with biblical Christianity. It would only mean that they made better accommodations to deceive more men into believing their heretical teachings.

 

[Rev Wayne]

have you ever seen or heard of a wheelchaired, handicap man accepted for initiation as an Entered Apprentice?

Apparently this is a repeat of this question?

I'm not talking about something as simple as one walking with a "TUBALCAIN." Oops, I meant a cane. Nor am I referring to a Mason in the military who loss his legs in Iraq or other recent war. Most interesting to know, would be, have you ever seen or heard of a wheelchaired, handicap man accepted for initiation as an Entered Apprentice? In other words, would your lodge accept a quadripilegic, "free-born" of lawful age, and well recommended, knowing that he could never give a "token" or render a "due guard" or "sign?"

I would like to point out that immediately after this question, you closed out the post with:

Official Grand Lodge documentation to support such findings would suffice.

So apparently this means you are looking for "Grand Lodge documentation" for what someone observes in the local lodge?

Sounds about as impossible to produce as the famous law enforcement description of a suspect who is a "tall, thin, short, fat, bald man with curly hair."

If each of you can show adequate proof of this, then I will gladly apologize. But please note that such an apology would not exonerate Freemasonry from being incompatible with biblical Christianity. It would only mean that they made better accommodations to deceive more men into believing their heretical teachings.

You don't seem to be interested in doing anything but presenting questions that can't be answered without accusation, in true Pharisaical style. All you have just said with this comment is, "I don't really care what you answer, because I'm going to ignore the answer and make more accusations anyway."

So the real question here is, why bother answering your questions at all?

 

[Rev Wayne]

Here is the "official Grand Lodge documentation" that this can indeed happen:

A Mason must be of sound mind and body, which does not mean that you cannot be physically handicapped, many Masons are. (KY GL webpage)

And for the other question of whether we had ever "seen or heard of" a wheelchaired, handicapped man being accepted for initiation as an EA:

My mother lodge is Steppingstone Lodge No. 1141 F.& A.M. in the Grand Lodge of New York. In late 1960 the lodge received a petition from Mr. David Roy Rubin, Esquire. And upon reading it we learned that he was almost totally paralyzed. We were unable to proceed with his investigation until we had a dispensation from Grand Lodge allowing us to give the degrees to one so handicapped.
The reply that we received shocked the membership of this six year old lodge. It said that the lodge could make this man a Mason providing the Lodge send them a letter stating that this candidate would never be a ward of his Grand Lodge. Thus it would be the sole responsibility of his lodge for any Masonic relief. We wrote the letter and it was signed by EVERY member of the lodge. We were able to get over 200 signatures as an indication to Grand Lodge that we were Masons and were prepared to support a brother in distress even if our Grand Lodge was only interested in their possible financial burden.
In order to carry out his bodily functions, Bro. Rubin had a manservant to assist him; he also had a wife and two daughters. He was a successful lawyer who had put himself through law school by being a newspaper reporter.
In a wheelchair, his servant brought him into the candidate's room and properly clothed him and then had to leave. I became his conductor (guide) and pushed his wheelchair around the lodge room and I was the one who arranged his feet and arms when required and I was also his mentor for learning his proficiency.

http://www.freemasoninformation.com/bryce/truemasonrytruestoriespart3.htm

So there you go.

 

[Rev Wayne]

From the Grand Lodge of Belgium Q & A page:

18. Can physically handicapped people become Freemasons?

Yes, they can, provided that their handicap does not prevent them from participating in the meetings, for otherwise Masonry will be of no help whatsoever to them.
If one becomes handicapped after having acquired the quality of a Freemason, one remains a Freemason and the Brethren find a way to pursue the relationship.

http://glrb.org/Efaq.htm#18.

 

[ma2000]

To the OP, my oppinion is they are not compatible.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Now THIS is interesting: guess who apparently was made a Mason in the Pre-Grand Lodge era?

Luther, Martin.—The great Reformer was a Freemason. We give Luther's own statement regarding it, as given to his son, Martin Gotlieb, Christmas Eve, in 1536,at his home in Wittenberg, who requested him to sing "that strange song" which he had learned when he got his medal. It was the "Mark Master's song." (From the Nat. Freemason.) "

During the night of Christmas, 1520, when I had just fifteen days before publicly burued the Pope's Bull, I sat in my study weary and heavy laden. For the bold act, while it drew my stanch friends closer around me, alienated also at the same time the more timid multitude, and I was left to a certain degree alone. Melancholy and a certain sad feeling crept over me, as the twilight passed away and darkness threw a still greater gloom over the study. But at last I aroused myself, and said, 'A helper will be raised up for me—I will have faith in this my darkest hour.' Hardly had I come to this conclusion when there came a rap at the door, and three men entered, and congratulated me upon the bold steps I had taken that day. The eldest inquired of me whether I had considered the danger and risk I ran in thus bidding defiance to the whole papal power. I replied that I did not stop to consider the probable peril in my way as long as I knew myself in the path of duty.
"'Well said, Brother Martin,' replied Hans Stauffenacher, who had until then stood behind his companions; ' well said! The Guild has long thought that in thee we have found a kindred spirit, and is now ready therefore to throw its protection around thee. What sayest, art willing to become one of us ?' "
I answered, 'But I am not skilled in the using of the implements of thy calling; how can I then become one of you ?'"
A quiet smile played around Hans's mouth, as he said, 'Ah! there are other implements we use than thou wot'st of, implements which thou wilt find that thou canst handle with a master's hand. In the mean time, for thy satisfaction, thou mayest know that many honorable knights and princes have been made free of the but a master, in carrying out the great principles of true and untrammeled religion. It is therefore ready to extend to thee its privileges and help.'
After a few seconds of hesitation I answered, ' Hans, I have known thee for many years, and am fully convinced that thou wouldst not lead me into any place where, in consistence with my calling, I ought not to go. But thy coming to-night seems to have been a special providence, for only a few minutes ago did I feel cast down in my soul, when the thought that God would raise me up help strengthened me. I am ready, therefore; lead on, I'll follow.'"
My three companions then conducted me to the Guildhall, where I was, with many and ancient ceremonies, introduced among the brethren of the Mystic Tie. Judge my delight and surprise when the first thing I beheld in the room was a beautiful copy of the Holy Bible, the book which I ever acknowledged the rule for our faith. I was then told that that volume lies ever open in the hall, to be consulted by the brethren.
"Rapidly was I advanced that night from step to step, until I reached the grade which entitled me to wear this medal, and know the meaning of its mystic inscription. That night I learned, too, the beautiful song which you seem to like so much.
(Augustus Row, Masonic Biography and Dictionary, 1868, p. 173-74)

 

[George the 3rd]

Very interesting Rev. Wayne. Can you give me a link to an online resource for this quote? Thanks.

George

 

[Rev Wayne]

MASONIC BIOGRAPHY AND DICTIONARY: COMPRISING THE HISTORY OF ANCIENT MASONRY, ANTIQUITY OF
MASONRY, WRITTEN AND UNWRITTEN LAW, DERIVATION AND DEFINITION OF MASONIC TERMS, BIOGRAPHIES OF EMINENT MASONS, STATISTICS, LIST OF ALL LODGES IN THE UNITED STATES, ETC. COMPILED BY AUGUSTUS ROW, K.T.
According to the author's notation that this comes from "Nat. Freemason," I take this to mean Mackey's masonic magazine, "National Freemason," published for a short time in the 1800's. I have seen references to the magazine before, but have never located it online. I have located a source which has the entire collection compiled, for sale, and have pondered whether that might be a purchase worth making.

I do know that Mackey is not bashful about nailing Masonic writers for improper research, particularly Dr. Oliver, whom he otherwise gives high marks as perhaps the most knowledgeable person on Masonry that has ever been known. For that reason, I have to assume the information would have been checked out thoroughly before Mackey would have published it.

I have not been able to locate it, though. I tried to see if I could find it in any Luther source material, but a browser search on Martin Luther hardly pulls up anything by Luther, but plenty on Martin Luther King, Jr.

I do remain skeptical as a matter of course, until something further may be verified concerning this. The only thing I've found so far was a page of links and remarks on freemasonrywatch.org, who note that "several architects of the Reformation" belonged to "occult societies." They name Melancthon as one of them, as well as Luther, so apparently they at least accord some form of legitimacy to the information. They also have many relevant links on their site, suggesting that Luther was a Rosicrucian. Although I almost retch at the thought of posting it, the link to their page is found here:

http://freemasonrywatch.org/protestantism_freemasonry.html

The only thing I remain skeptical about so far, which I will have to have better information to resolve, is the mention of Luther's son at both the beginning and the end of the piece in Row's account. At the beginning, he has the son as a young boy asking questions of his father, in 1536; at the end, after Luther tells his son he joined, the article concludes:

"I, too, will join the Guild when I shall be big enough."
exclaimed little Martin Gotlieb.
In 1759 was buried in Dresden, Martin Gotlieb Luther,
a lawyer, and worthy member and P. M. of the Guild, and the silver Mark was placed in his coffin, in accordance with his last request.

The article doesn't say how old the son was in 1536, but he would have had to be 223 years + whatever that age was. Of course, it could always have been either a misprint or a mis-statement.

Happy reading, anyway, if you get more light, please share it, as will I.

 

[Rev Wayne]

I managed to find a genealogical page, mostly in German, with this notation in the margin:

The descendants of Paul Luther, the youngest son of the Reformator, are explored widely. The descendants of the male family line are, unlike the eldest son Johannes, died out probably with the brother of Chritiana Sophie, Martin Gottlieb Luther, in the year 1759.

I had considered whether perhaps the 1759 date of death was perhaps a descendant who bore the same name and perhaps that might explain the apparent anachronism. But this note has the "Martin Gottlieb Luther" dying in the same year, 1759; yet it also lists his ancestor as Paul, Martin's youngest son. Since the story clearly is about a "son" by that name, and yet also carries a notice of his death in 1759, I'd have to take the story as bogus, unless there is other information on which to base the attribution of his membership.

 

[George the 3rd]

Thanks!

 

[G19]

I've often wondered about Luther being a member of the fraternity. His time at Marburg castle, the rose cross symbol, etc. is all anecdotal and non-conclusive but I'm nonetheless happy about the information you presented Wayne, conclusive or not. Thanks.

 

[Rev Wayne]

I suppose we all wonder about such well-known personalities from time to time. I did some real digging before concerning John Wesley, after finding out that he had preached at the Masonic Lodge in Savannah during his brief sojourn in Georgia. I even found one source that said his name was on the roll at a lodge in England, giving specifics of date and location. It turned out to be a false lead, and it was discovered to be so by Wesley's own hand. He was a meticulous diary-keeper, and on the date he supposedly had been made a Mason, his diaries prove he was many miles away. One thing I did turn up with the research, there was a Samuel Wesley, son of John's brother Charles, who most definitely WAS a Mason, for he was made the Grand Organist of the UGLE.

And I did notice that someone incorrectly stated on another thread here, that John Wesley "often spoke against" Freemasonry during his ministry. I didn't address it at the time at all, but the statement is simply not true. I have a complete collection of all of John Wesley's writings, and one thing I do know is, if John Wesley had an opinion on any subject at all, he wrote something about it. And if he had an opinion on something that caused him to "speak against it often," then he also wrote about it often. With Freemasonry, that is not the case, he only made one remark, and it a passing one, in the entire 14 volumes of his writing. In his journals, he made a passing mention that he had come across a book by someone purporting to reveal "the secrets of Masonry." It's reallly hard to make much of the comment at all.
I have found one website that makes the claim, but they cite nothing by him and offer no reference or link to elaborate on the claim, which simply lumps him within a group of Christians leaders that the site says "spoke against Masonry."

Another site quotes the Wesley comment in this manner:

British Methodism has been less favorably inclined toward Freemasonry, perhaps reflecting John Wesley's observation about the lodge: "What an amazing banter on all mankind is Freemasonry."

"Banter" is simply good-natured teasing, and it appears Wesley was not saying anything negative; yet someone seems to think the comment was a negative one. If Wesley were knocking Freemasonry, he would have made more than this one comment; and he surely would have said something stronger about it than to remark upon its good-naturedness.

And after further reading at the freemasonrywatch site, I see they are already mounting the charge to blame the whole Reformation on Freemasonry. It'll be interesting to see how they manage to do this and manage to balance it in any way with the typical anti-Catholic stance that seems to shared by many antimasons.

How anyone can make such a claim with absolutely no evidence is one of the secrets of antimasonry that we will perhaps never be considered worthy of learning. Even more of a wonder, is how the claim can be made when all someone has to do to find the truth of the matter is to read his journals (they are online in several places, as are all his writings), where he openly describes visiting and preaching at Masonic lodges.

Not to worry, though, the anti's do not have a monopoly on misinformation about people's membership/non-membership in the lodge. Erdemont Lodge #5865 in the province of Kent makes this statement concerning their history:

Joining members of the Lodge have included Bro John Wesley, a direct descendant of the founder of Methodism.

Now there's a REAL wonder for you: a "direct descendant" of a man who had no children.