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Fossil Challenge for Evolutionists

GodsGrace101

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Oh great. We've got another one who thinks science proves things.
Science can't prove things?
It proved that things fall down.
It proved that time is different in different parts of the globe.
It got us to the moon.
It proved a lot....
I'm NOT putting science down,,,
I'm saying evolution is a mystery that cannot be solved with science.

Look at that graph a member put up....
In each age there are different animals,,,,I don't see the evolution into those animals....

What would a scientist here on this thread say the first cause was? It boggles the mind....
 
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tas8831

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My whole life Evolutionists have been screaming incessantly that the order of fossils in the geologic column is direct evidence of evolution
WOW! Your whole life? Then surely you can provide 10 published examples of predictions of a specific order of fossils. I mean, you've been the poor victim of incessant screaming about it.
... One of the most popular memes is that "the fossils prove evolution" ...

Really? I've never seen this meme - please provide 5 examples. Or is this another of your hypotheticals? Sure, the fossil progression OBSERVED supports evolution and refutes the laughable notions of a bible flood and all that pagan nonsense, but a SPECIFIC ordering of fossils? Never seen such a prediction. Or is this one of your hypotheticals?

What is with this giant backpedal all of the sudden?
Who is backpedaling? I don't even know what your position is half the time since it makes no sense.

What is this reliance upon hypotheticals all the time?

Perhaps it is just that people with backgrounds in science have different understandings and usages of words like "specific" and "prediction" than internet apologists.

Because to me, predicting a specific order of fossils means something like:

"I predict that we will find these specific fossils in this specific order: A, B, C, D, E, F."

And I've not seen any such thing. You seem to think this happens? or it should but doesn't? Who knows what you mean.

And apologists, desperate to prop up their failing middle eastern myths, seem to think that "predicting" that we will find fossils of 'older' creatures in deeper strata is the same thing. or something. it is hard to tell what such folk think. But it is clear that they cannot understand the material very well, since they cannot understand field-relevant "jargon."

I'll repeat:
You can't claim that the specific order of fossils is direct evidence of Evolution, without also claiming that Evolution theory expected that specific order of fossils. It's either both or neither.
Sorry, I do not accept your ad hoc constraints as valid. Theory relies on data in the first place. it is almost as if you are so naive and Dunning-Krugery that you think a theory is the first thing to be produced in the scientific endeavor, followed by all-encompassing predictions regarding the evidence for that theory, followed by actually finding evidence.

Is that what you think? It seems so, but it is hard to tell since your rambling is so muddled and contradictory - at least as far as how things are actually done in science. But that is because you have no science background, that much is obvious.

If it's neither, then you're just writing evolution stories based on the fossil order that was discovered, (i.e. ad-hoc.)

Well, isn't that better than writing creation stories based on ancient numerology nonsense and ancient middle eastern myths? Isn't writing about stuff that there is evidence for better than propping up silly myths like making a man from dust and a flood and all that?
Let me guess - you think that the TAB post hoc nonsense is TRUE science?

But it sounds like you've already conceded this, which I'm happy to see....
Conceded what?
I'm sure you are happy to fluff your own ego, you seem to do that regardless of how incoherent your ranting is.
But is is precious to see you pretend to know about things you don't.
So the fossil order is not evidence of Evolution.

Of course it is. Pity that your ilk cannot keep your accusations straight. I thought you were rambling about predicting specific fossil sequences?
If I'm so wrong then try channeling some of this hostility into actual arguments, and try and stay on topic, thanks.
Oh, you poor dear.
I have no intention of taking the time to address your every error - history shows that creationists will never adjust their thinking, regardless of what is presented. So I will just keep pointing out your errors and dopey motivations, thank you.
 
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tas8831

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Many.....
Here's one:

Oh, right, the religious carbon nanotube chemist that, darn it, just can't understand evolution. Nick Matzke had organized a meeting with him to explain his errors, but Tour backed out when Matzke wanted to record the meeting. Hmmm... Wonder why?

Well, there's 1.
 
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tas8831

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He's saying that it's impossible to create life.
He knows about what is needed to create life.
How does he know that? He is not a biologist.
He understands that it's impossible.
No, he asserts that it is.

But thanks for your fallacious argument from (false) authority.
 
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pitabread

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What I'm saying is that all the early theories of science were proven within this amount of time because they were TRUE....WHY isn't evolution being proven?

Theories in science aren't "proven". Rather, they are substantiated by evidence. Of which there is ample evidence which supports the Theory of Evolution. This is why it is both foundational to modern biology as a scientific theory, and is also an applied science. There are even patents for practical applications that have been issued based on the Theory of Evolution.

The notion that its being abandoned by scientists or a theory in crisis, or anything along those lines is purely creationist propaganda. There is no validity to those claims.
 
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Jimmy D

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Many.....
Here's one:


He hasn't "abandoned it", he was never "with it" in the first place....

"Assuming that I have something significant to contribute to the evolution vs. creation debate, many ask me to speak and write concerning my thoughts on the topic. However, I do not have anything substantive to say about it. I am a layman on the subject. Although I have read about a half dozen books on the debate, maybe a dozen, and though I can speak authoritatively on complex chemical synthesis, I am not qualified to enter the public discussion on evolution vs. creation."

link


However, this is not particularly pertinent to the topic at hand.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Science can't prove things?
It proved that things fall down.
It proved that time is different in different parts of the globe.
It got us to the moon.
It proved a lot....
I'm NOT putting science down,,,

You're confusing observations and an accomplishment with proof. You've also fallen for a common error - that science proves things. All scientific propositions, regardless of how solid they seem must have the potential for falsification based on future observations. The earth being round is a fact and a solid one. Science must still allow for a potential observation in the future showing it's not round.

I suggest you read this essay.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...sconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof



I'm saying evolution is a mystery that cannot be solved with science.

You are wrong.
 
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tas8831

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It might be instructive to read through this page and the next from a thread from 2015 that life started on the nested hierarchy, since he is covering similar ground in this thread, but more so to see his tactics - he brings up a hoax as an argument, when the hoax is explained to him, he deletes all mention of it in subsequent exchanges; as appears to be the norm, he relies almost entirely on hypotheticals, especially when his assertions or earlier hypotheticals are undermined by actual data; etc. I especially liked this particular exchange:

lifepsyop said:
You mean your theory predicted that two similar looking mammals will be more similar to each other than either is to a chicken? Amazing.
Yeah, just like the Whale Shark and the Blue Whale are more similar to each other than each are to bony fish and hippos, respectively. Oh wait...

A certain someone never broached that subject again...

added in edit:
Wow... That thread is a treasure trove - and what I've seen there is why I will never take this guy seriously and will not waste the time to produce any 'real' replies - this page is a great example of how he operates:
ERVs and how Evolutionists bluff with the data
The delusional antics, the inability to stay focused, the constant burden shifting and blame shifting, it is really something to see... One can see why he waits at least a couple months to start threads - he has to wait for people to forget how much of a tool he was the last time around...
 
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Jimmy D

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I never claimed to know anything about science.

Yet here you are, claiming that the scientific consensus is wrong.

I like to use my common sense.
Science has been saying things to me all my life and many of those statement have proven incorrect.

Like what?

My common sense tells me that even Einstein's theory of relativity was shown to be correct and that seem a lot more complicated (to me) than proving evolution.

Scientific theories are never proven correct.

And the Theory of Evolution has been shown to be correct, again and again.

It's an applied science.

It's confirmed by multiple lines of evidence.

I believe in micro evolution...changes within a species due to need. I do not believe an animal can change into a different animal. I do not believe single cell life in a pount could turn into a fish, and a fish into a human....no matter how many years it would take.

Good for you, believe what you like.

This thread sounds like conspiracies, which I'm not interested in.

If you're in the science field, maybe you could explain to me how something could come from nothing....

I'm not in the field of science.

Please tell me though, where does science say that "something could come from nothing", that sounds more like a miracle.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Why is evolution a mystery?

Because it would answer a lot and it doesn't seem able to answer anything.

Man finds himself here on this earth.
How did we get here?
Are we some experiment by some advanced civilization in some other galaxy?

Are we a computer program?
Did God make us as a pass-time for His own entertainment?

HOW did we get here?
WHY are we here?

The bible has some answers....
Science does not.

IYO,,, shouldn't science have been able to absolutely prove evolution by now?

The big bang seems to jive with Let There Be Light.
I have a bigger problem with evolution than the beginning.
 
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Jimmy D

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He's saying that it's impossible to create life.
He knows about what is needed to create life.
He understands that it's impossible.

Why do you accept what he says over the other hundreds of thousands of scientists who actually work in biology, palaeontology etc? That doesn't suggest that you are using the "common sense" you're so proud of.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Oh, right, the religious carbon nanotube chemist that, darn it, just can't understand evolution. Nick Matzke had organized a meeting with him to explain his errors, but Tour backed out when Matzke wanted to record the meeting. Hmmm... Wonder why?

Well, there's 1.
So what's the difference between his talking in the video or meeting with someone?

He knows how life starts...it makes sense to me.
Man cannot create life.
 
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GodsGrace101

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How does he know that? He is not a biologist.
No, he asserts that it is.

But thanks for your fallacious argument from (false) authority.
He's not my authority T....
Many scientists are giving up on evolution.
Someone here asked for support,,,
I posted him.
There are more...but I'm not spending the rest of my day looking for them.

Why? YOU believe EVERY SCIENTIST believes in evolution? How do YOU prove that??

Here's an entire list of scientists that are trying to figure out different ways that we might have gotten to where we are today as humans:


List of scientists who think that a fresh look at evolution is needed | The Third Way of Evolution
 
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GodsGrace101

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Theories in science aren't "proven". Rather, they are substantiated by evidence. Of which there is ample evidence which supports the Theory of Evolution. This is why it is both foundational to modern biology as a scientific theory, and is also an applied science. There are even patents for practical applications that have been issued based on the Theory of Evolution.

The notion that its being abandoned by scientists or a theory in crisis, or anything along those lines is purely creationist propaganda. There is no validity to those claims.
Could you tell me what you think of this link...
it's also in my post no. 114

List of scientists who think that a fresh look at evolution is needed | The Third Way of Evolution
 
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VirOptimus

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Sure there is.

Since evolution has not been proven since Darwin's
Evolution of the Species from about 150 years ago,,,,I'd say the scientific community is starting to accept that it may not be a sustainable theory.

....

Do you know anything at all about science? The ToE? Or indeed what a scientific theory entails?

Because everything you post is simply wrong.
 
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GodsGrace101

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You're confusing observations and an accomplishment with proof. You've also fallen for a common error - that science proves things. All scientific propositions, regardless of how solid they seem must have the potential for falsification based on future observations. The earth being round is a fact and a solid one. Science must still allow for a potential observation in the future showing it's not round.

I suggest you read this essay.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...sconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof

You are wrong.
LOL
It says that if I use the expression: Proved by science....then I'm not a scientist. I could have told you that an hour ago!

Please allow for my faulty language...I can't become a scientist just to talk to you.

For instance....it is a proven fact that the earth rotates around the sun and the sun stays still.
This is what I mean by "proof".

I don't see this happening with evolution...
But I should really leave this conversation, I feel like I'm holding up a good talk here.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Yet here you are, claiming that the scientific consensus is wrong.



Like what?



Scientific theories are never proven correct.

And the Theory of Evolution has been shown to be correct, again and again.

It's an applied science.

It's confirmed by multiple lines of evidence.



Good for you, believe what you like.



I'm not in the field of science.

Please tell me though, where does science say that "something could come from nothing", that sounds more like a miracle.
I've said the opposite of the above.

Something could NOT come from nothing.
So how did that first cell develop?
How did ANYTHING develop?
 
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VirOptimus

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LOL
It says that if I use the expression: Proved by science....then I'm not a scientist. I could have told you that an hour ago!

Please allow for my faulty language...I can't become a scientist just to talk to you.

For instance....it is a proven fact that the earth rotates around the sun and the sun stays still.
This is what I mean by "proof".

I don't see this happening with evolution...
But I should really leave this conversation, I feel like I'm holding up a good talk here.

Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution explains the mechanics of evolution.
 
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VirOptimus

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I've said the opposite of the above.

Something could NOT come from nothing.
So how did that first cell develop?
How did ANYTHING develop?

Abiogenesis in not part of the ToE.
 
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