Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the faith.

[Bible Highlighter]

I think Romans Chapter 12 is a good application passage for this theme. How each christian interprets "the pattern of the world" will vary, but the constant transformation and renewing of the mind is what's important.

Offering one's body as a willing sacrifice to God does not sound like such a thing is possible for those who live a life of self indulgence by having fancy cars, and mansions, etc.

Jesus says to pick up your cross and deny yourself and follow Him.
Doesn't sound like the rich are really denying themselves of anything so as to follow Jesus.

We are also told not to love the world and neither the things in the world.
If we have fancy cars, suits, mansions we really cannot say to ourselves that we are not loving the things of this world (Which is a part of loving the world). We are told to love not the world because if we do, the love of the Father is not in us.

Again, it comes down to love according to God's way. If we hold on to great material wealth like millions of dollars while poor people suffer in our area around us it shows where our true loyalty lies. It is to our money and self indulgence and not to God and His love. For we show that we love the Lord by helping those who are poor and suffering.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Offering one's body as a willing sacrifice to God does not sound like such a thing is possible for those who live a life of self indulgence by having fancy cars, and mansions, etc.

Jesus says to pick up your cross and deny yourself and follow Him.
Doesn't sound like the rich are really denying themselves of anything so as to follow Jesus.

We are also told not to love the world and neither the things in the world.
If we have fancy cars, suits, mansions we really cannot say to ourselves that we are not loving the things of this world (Which is a part of loving the world). We are told to love not the world because if we do, the love of the Father is not in us.

Again, it comes down to love according to God's way. If we hold on to great material wealth like millions of dollars while poor people suffer in our area around us it shows where our true loyalty lies. It is to our money and self indulgence and not to God and His love. For we show that we love the Lord by helping those who are poor and suffering.

You know, when the scripture says it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, it's not kidding. People who mock God with dangerous prayers and then walk in the exact opposite direction sometimes get "chosen"

In the same way, some speak of God being all merciful, but are judgmental of their fellow servants.

There's a lot of things going on, but I trust God to figure that part out, it's His job ... not mine per se.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You know, when the scripture says it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God, it's not kidding. People who mock God with dangerous prayers and then walk in the exact opposite direction sometimes get "chosen"

It certainly is possible. But that does not mean we should not expose their error while they are going in the wrong direction.

In the same way, some speak of God being all merciful, but are judgmental of their fellow servants.

We are allowed to correct and rebuke other fellow brethren if they are in sin or if they are justifying sin.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Ephesians 5:11).

There's a lot of things going on, but I trust God to figure that part out, it's His job ... not mine per se.

I trust God will figure out all of men's sins, too. But if we see folks justifying sin or a sinful belief, we should stand up for what is right and good and rebuke such things with the Word of God.

 

[Strong in Him]

But if they have mansions, expensive cars, butlers, etc. and or just let millions sit in the bank for their own peace of mind, they are being wasteful with the resources that they have and they have and not giving much to God's kingdom from God's perspective on their heart. Remember, the poor widow gave more than all the religious rich combined according to Jesus.

If "they" are non Christians, they don't believe in God, are living for God or worshipping God; that's far more serious.
Convert someone; bring them to the Lord to receive a new heart, and everything else will change - including their attitude to money.
They may give it all away - or they may use what they have, and their ability to make money, for good and for the Kingdom. Christians need money - for Mission, evangelism, buying resources for worship, paying clergy and staff. And charities, hospitals, schools, prisons, the homeless etc etc need to be funded.

Ultimately, how an individual Christian uses the resources, and gifts, they have been given is between themselves and God. All of us have a responsibility to use wisely the things we have been blessed with. Even someone who could be considered poor, earning only a few thousand pounds/dollars a year with a family, has a responsibility to use money wisely, not waste, hoard or worship it.
A Christian on an ordinary wage with an ordinary lifestyle may save some of their money for old age, or for their children. Other Christians, on the same wage and with the same number of children, may say "no, we're going to give all our excess away, and just trust that God will somehow provide when we need it". Is one attitude "better" than the other? Is one right and the other greedy, or foolish?
It's between themselves and God, and is not a matter for anyone else to judge.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If "they" are non Christians, they don't believe in God, are living for God or worshipping God; that's far more serious.
Convert someone; bring them to the Lord to receive a new heart, and everything else will change - including their attitude to money.
They may give it all away - or they may use what they have, and their ability to make money, for good and for the Kingdom. Christians need money - for Mission, evangelism, buying resources for worship, paying clergy and staff. And charities, hospitals, schools, prisons, the homeless etc etc need to be funded.

Ultimately, how an individual Christian uses the resources, and gifts, they have been given is between themselves and God. All of us have a responsibility to use wisely the things we have been blessed with. Even someone who could be considered poor, earning only a few thousand pounds/dollars a year with a family, has a responsibility to use money wisely, not waste, hoard or worship it.
A Christian on an ordinary wage with an ordinary lifestyle may save some of their money for old age, or for their children. Other Christians, on the same wage and with the same number of children, may say "no, we're going to give all our excess away, and just trust that God will somehow provide when we need it". Is one attitude "better" than the other? Is one right and the other greedy, or foolish?
It's between themselves and God, and is not a matter for anyone else to judge.

I believe the Bible already makes it clear on this matter, so yes.... we can judge based on what the Bible says. For I do not judge, it is the Bible that judges them. For I did not write God's Word. God did. So if the New Testament condemns believers in being rich (and I believe it does), then it is not judging to say what the Bible plainly teaches. Your inability or unwillingness to see this truth does undo it.

 

[Strong in Him]

I believe the Bible already makes it clear on this matter, so yes.... we can judge based on what the Bible says.

Well you can try - but it's not your judgement of them that matters, is it?

For I do not judge, it is the Bible that judges them.

Like I said, if they are Christians, it is between them and God. They may do things with their money that you know nothing about; you just judge on $s in the bank or cars in the drive.
If they are non Christians, their rejection of Jesus is far more serious than the money they have.

So if the New Testament condemns believers in being rich (and I believe it does),

That's just it; it doesn't.
It is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven, Matthew 19:23.
We cannot serve God and money, Luke 16:13
We are not to have any idols, or any other gods except the Lord, Exodus 20:3-4
We are to seek first the Kingdom of God, Matthew 6:33.
We are not to trust in the world, or look to anything in the world for security, peace etc, because we do not belong to the world.
All this is true.

Scripture does NOT say that it is a sin to have money, or over a certain amount of money, or that people with well paid jobs, 2 cars and many possessions will not, and can never, be saved.

then it is not judging to say what the Bible plainly teaches.

The Bible plainly teaches that if we judge others, we will be judged by God in the same way.
We don't know all the facts, circumstances and motives of a person's life and heart; God does. So he is the only one who can make a just, and right, judgement.

Your inability or unwillingness to see this truth does undo it.

It's not that I'm unwilling to see this "truth"; I'm disputing that the idea that believers being rich is a sin, is truth.
Maybe if they use all their money selfishly, hoard it, do not allow Jesus to be Lord and King in the area of their finances - but even then, it is between them and God. I'm pretty sure that if I came along and attacked an area of your life for being unbiblical, you wouldn't like it, and you'd say that your walk with God was none of my business. If you did, you'd be right.
So why do it to others?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well you can try - but it's not your judgement of them that matters, is it?



Like I said, if they are Christians, it is between them and God. They may do things with their money that you know nothing about; you just judge on $s in the bank or cars in the drive.
If they are non Christians, their rejection of Jesus is far more serious than the money they have.



That's just it; it doesn't.
It is hard for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven, Matthew 19:23.
We cannot serve God and money, Luke 16:13
We are not to have any idols, or any other gods except the Lord, Exodus 20:3-4
We are to seek first the Kingdom of God, Matthew 6:33.
We are not to trust in the world, or look to anything in the world for security, peace etc, because we do not belong to the world.
All this is true.

Scripture does NOT say that it is a sin to have money, or over a certain amount of money, or that people with well paid jobs, 2 cars and many possessions will not, and can never, be saved.



The Bible plainly teaches that if we judge others, we will be judged by God in the same way.
We don't know all the facts, circumstances and motives of a person's life and heart; God does. So he is the only one who can make a just, and right, judgement.



It's not that I'm unwilling to see this "truth"; I'm disputing that the idea that believers being rich is a sin, is truth.
Maybe if they use all their money selfishly, hoard it, do not allow Jesus to be Lord and King in the area of their finances - but even then, it is between them and God. I'm pretty sure that if I came along and attacked an area of your life for being unbiblical, you wouldn't like it, and you'd say that your walk with God was none of my business. If you did, you'd be right.
So why do it to others?

Well, you just quoted Scripture in the NT that refutes your belief about money (and you don't even realize it). Again, I do not think that anything I say is going to help you here (Especially if you are quoting verses that demolishes your belief). So I think it is best that you move on, unless you can make an NT case for your view of the rich.

 

[Lost4words]

Many extremely rich people give to charity in vast amounts. Not everyone can be poor. Not everyone can be rich. I am sure God judges everyone individually based on their faith and works etc.

I can also imagine Jesus sitting down with a Christian, in their house, unbeknownst to them, watching a decent movie and enjoying it! God gave man the ability to invent things. Both for practical use and pleasure.

The good things in life can include movies, cars, houses, holidays etc etc. As long as one still follows Jesus. I dont think He expects everyone to put on rags and run bare foot after him!

 

[Strong in Him]

Well, you just quoted Scripture in the NT that refutes your belief about money (and you don't even realize it). Again, I do not think that anything I say is going to help you here (Especially if you are quoting verses that demolishes your belief). So I think it is best that you move on, unless you can make an NT case for your view of the rich.

"demolishes my belief"??
How does it do that?
I've told you what I believe; that money is fine as long as it is not an idol and comes between us and God. That churches, Missions etc need the money that rich Christians can give. Some Christians say that they live by faith - very commendable, but it is people who are richer than they who will provide their housing, food, clothes etc.
James says that LOVE of money is the root of all evil, not that money is.

I'm not trying to make a case for being rich - I'm challenging your judgement that those who are, are not Christians and SHOULD give their possessions away.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It certainly is possible. But that does not mean we should not expose their error while they are going in the wrong direction.



We are allowed to correct and rebuke other fellow brethren if they are in sin or if they are justifying sin.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Ephesians 5:11).



I trust God will figure out all of men's sins, too. But if we see folks justifying sin or a sinful belief, we should stand up for what is right and good and rebuke such things with the Word of God.

There was a lot of correction of error surrounding me growing up, so when I apply it, I tend to not do it if it seems like "the flesh" is just trying to be a know it all. It's gotta come from the Holy Spirit or it's just causing harm.

 

[CaspianSails]

Based on some answers here I think perhaps there is nothing a christian should do. We are not of the world but we live it. We are to be a salt and a light and we cannot do that alone. Live for Christ die to self and allow the Holy Spirit to work in your heart and change you from the inside out and don't let the pharisees direct your life. That is the job of the Holy Spirit that works in you to create a new person.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm curious. What did you think of the Narnia films?

I used to be a huge fan of Marvel comics growing up. So I loved the Marvel films. I also loved Star Trek (The Original Series to Enterprise), and many other secular films, as well. That is until 2016. For in 2016, after watching the Luke Cage series on Netflix, I had put away secular movies and TV shows. I noticed things were getting darker in these kinds of things and it was grieving my soul to watch all the sinful things being promoted within them. Dead Pool and it's promotion of profanity, and women as prostitutes. Doctor Strange and the promotion of sorcery or witchcraft (Yes, I am aware of the explanation they use in the films, which is a departure from the comics, but it does not change the comics - of which the character is based upon). I had also heard they insulted Jesus Christ in the new Avengers movie. It's sad. I now only watch Christian movies, shows, and educational documentaries.

During my secular movie watching time: I did not have a problem with movies or shows with wizards or those who worked by magic (Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Harry Potter, and Legend of the Seeker, etc.). Now, it seems like all the rage. We see magic being pushed in commercials even. But in the Old Testament, GOD killed anyone who was a wizard. So God takes the working of the sin of sorcery very seriously.

I know many will say that secular movies are okay and the sins they push within them are permissible to watch because it is fantasy and not reality, but I don't buy that. Generally Christians understand that porn is wrong because it is promoting the sin of sexual immorality. For sex should only be between a husband and wife only. So why would I want to watch the sin of sorcery that the Bible condemns? The short answer is... I don't. You may not agree, but all I ask is for you to pray about it and search the Scriptures.

I was not able to see this kind of thing clearly until I put away my secular movie and TV watching. I remember watching a show about a guy who took a particular drug to be smarter. Is that really the kind of show I would want my future children to watch? Surely not. Then why should I watch that kind of junk? Again, you may not agree, but it is my conviction of what I believe to be true and good in my following of Jesus Christ. For this life is but a vapor and short. I want to be found living for my Lord and not found chasing after what this world craves and desires.

One passage that always unsettled me before when I read it (during my secular movie and TV show watching) is this one:

15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1 John 2:15-17).

I pray the passage will speak to you as you pray about it to the Lord.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes I agree with Jason on this topic.

We have not had TV for years.

I was spoken to through Ps 101:3

"I will not look with approval
on anything that is vile.
I hate what faithless people do;
I will have no part in it..."

To me Harry Potter is a soft sell of the Occult.

I am aware that those who presume to teach are under stricter judgement so require a different level of sanctification.

Ask Jesus to walk through your house and bring to your attention what grieves Him.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Based on some answers here I think perhaps there is nothing a christian should do. We are not of the world but we live it. We are to be a salt and a light and we cannot do that alone. Live for Christ die to self

Perhaps,

no, rather certainly, do not make any decisions "based on some answers here" or anything on the forum.

Stay abiding in God's Word, and abide in union with Jesus daily as written.

Let Him Be the Wisdom and Understanding and Experiential Knowledge all day, every day, as He Shepherds us sheep. Hear His Voice, and follow Him, not following another.

Yes, this does greatly eliminate everything of the flesh, carnal, of the world,
so
it is a total make-over for people when they come to Jesus to be healed.(saved)

 

[LW97Nils]

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the faith.

Hello brother. Absolutely, however, it is not salvation. Salvation by grace through faith, not of works. The sin is not doing sin non-believers would do too, but living for entertainment, being slothful, lazy, unproductive etc. See the parable of the talents.

 

[LW97Nils]

But if they have mansions, expensive cars, butlers, etc. and or just let millions sit in the bank for their own peace of mind, they are being wasteful with the resources that they have and they have and not giving much to God's kingdom from God's perspective on their heart. Remember, the poor widow gave more than all the religious rich combined according to Jesus.

Amen.

 

[Der Alte]

I was once watching one of those TV "preachers" way back before he fell into disrepute, he had gold fixtures in the bathrooms of his mansion. Someone had criticized his lavish lifestyle. He said and I quote, "I don't think God wants me living in a pile of trash." IIRC Jesus said He did not even have a place to lay His head.

 

[LW97Nils]

However, if said entertainment contains something immoral e.g. promoting adultery or sinfulness, it should be avoided. In the same way that sex isn't bad but a misuse of it is, entertainment isn't bad but a misuse of it is.

Amen brother.

 

[LW97Nils]

I know many will say that secular movies are okay and the sins they push within them are permissible to watch because it is fantasy and not reality, but I don't buy that. Generally Christians understand that inappropriate content is wrong because it is promoting the sin of sexual immorality. For sex should only be between a husband and wife only. So why would I want to watch the sin of sorcery that the Bible condemns? The short answer is... I don't. You may not agree, but all I ask is for you to pray about it and search the Scriptures.

I was not able to see this kind of thing clearly until I put away my secular movie and TV watching. I remember watching a show about a guy who took a particular drug to be smarter. Is that really the kind of show I would want my future children to watch? Surely not. Then why should I watch that kind of junk? Again, you may not agree, but it is my conviction of what I believe to be true and good in my following of Jesus Christ. For this life is but a vapor and short. I want to be found living for my Lord and not found chasing after what this world craves and desires.

One passage that always unsettled me before when I read it (during my secular movie and TV show watching) is this one:

15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." (1 John 2:15-17).

I pray the passage will speak to you as you pray about it to the Lord.

Hello Jason. Sadly, you are right. I as of now do not watch any TV or movies. A bigger part in my life had been video games... letting go was hart.. but I knew it had to be... even if they're clean, they're addictive.

You especially hit the hammer on the nail here: I want to be found living for my Lord

Indeed, WWJD? We have to think about him returning any moment, so how do we want to be at that very moment?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello Jason. Sadly, you are right. I as of now do not watch any TV or movies. A bigger part in my life had been video games... letting go was hart.. but I knew it had to be... even if they're clean, they're addictive.

You especially hit the hammer on the nail here: I want to be found living for my Lord

Indeed, WWJD? We have to think about him returning any moment, so how do we want to be at that very moment?

The more we are in His Word and praying and loving others, the more we will have power to overcome this world and the more our eyes will be open to its dark ways.

May the LORD give you all strength and power to stay the course, brother.