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Strong in Him

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Believing is more than just believing in Jesus as your Savior, but it is believing in everything He told us to do. For Jesus says why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?

Yes, of course it is.
But salvation and eternal life are not obtained by giving away money and possessions.

Jesus did not command all his followers to give away their possessions, or say it was wrong for them to have money.
 
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Yes, of course it is.
But salvation and eternal life are not obtained by giving away money and possessions.

Jesus did not command all his followers to give away their possessions, or say it was wrong for them to have money.

Everyone who has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life (Matthew 19:29). ‭
 
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Everyone who has forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:29‬)

Yes, everyone who gives up worldly things to follow Jesus, for Jesus' sake or in his name will be blessed. That doesn't mean that the ONLY way to eternal life is to sell all your possessions.
Firstly, Jesus made it clear that whoever believes in, and accepts, the Son has eternal life
Secondly, God doesn't need anything, but money buys an awful lot of resources - for churches, schools, the homeless etc etc.
Thirdly, there are plenty of rich Christians around, and if it was not possible to accept Christ without giving up money, there wouldn't be. Everyone in the Kingdom would be financially poor and we'd have to rely on non Christians to support us.
 
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Yes, everyone who gives up worldly things to follow Jesus, for Jesus' sake or in his name will be blessed. That doesn't mean that the ONLY way to eternal life is to sell all your possessions.
Firstly, Jesus made it clear that whoever believes in, and accepts, the Son has eternal life
Secondly, God doesn't need anything, but money buys an awful lot of resources - for churches, schools, the homeless etc etc.
Thirdly, there are plenty of rich Christians around, and if it was not possible to accept Christ without giving up money, there wouldn't be. Everyone in the Kingdom would be financially poor and we'd have to rely on non Christians to support us.

Just read the verse and believe it.
 
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Two went to the temple one day, a Pharisee and a Publican. Which of the two was the more worldly?

-CryptoLutheran

This is talking about the entrance into God's Kingdom and not the walk with God after one is saved by God's grace.
 
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Just read the verse and believe it.

What, and ignore all the verses that I quoted which say that you need to be born again to enter the Kingdom and that only Jesus can give eternal life?
No.
The Bible does not contradict itself - if it appears to be doing so in some place, it is important to read other verses/passages in context to try to find out, and understand, what it is saying.

If you had a non Christian asking you these questions, it would not be good to dismiss them by saying "just believe it".
We are told to be ready to give an answer for our faith - "just read and believe" is not an answer.
 
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What, and ignore all the verses that I quoted which say that you need to be born again to enter the Kingdom and that only Jesus can give eternal life?
No.
The Bible does not contradict itself - if it appears to be doing so in some place, it is important to read other verses/passages in context to try to find out, and understand, what it is saying.

If you had a non Christian asking you these questions, it would not be good to dismiss them by saying "just believe it".
We are told to be ready to give an answer for our faith - "just read and believe" is not an answer.

The words mean what they say. If they have some kind of other special meaning, then surely you the "believer" would have some kind of answer with the Bible. This is also not the only verse in the Bible that teaches we need works of faith as a part of the salvation process, either. For...


After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Galatians 5:16).

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

“...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).
 
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So are you saying that unless a Christian gives away all their possessions and has no money, they are not a true believer?

*Sigh* Where did I ever say... no money? Obviously we need money to live and to pay taxes.
 
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Strong in Him

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*Sigh* Where did I ever say... no money? Obviously we need money to live and to pay taxes.

Fair enough.
But you do seem to be against Christians being wealthy. Maybe you define wealth as having millions and millions. But for some, ANY money at all, is wealth; a few hundred £s at the end of the month would be a luxury, if not a miracle.

Any by the way, I will try to respond to your long post, but I had just got out of bed when I read it.
 
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Fair enough.
But you do seem to be against Christians being wealthy. Maybe you define wealth as having millions and millions. But for some, ANY money at all, is wealth; a few hundred £s at the end of the month would be a luxury, if not a miracle.

Any by the way, I will try to respond to your long post, but I had just got out of bed when I read it.

If I told a people about a book, or movie about the story of a rich man, chances are people would picture a rich guy who had a mansion, multiple expensive cars, a limo, servants like a butler, etc. and they would not be making excuses so as to think about some upper middle class dude who if he lost his job he would not be able to able to afford the mortgage.
 
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If I told a people about a book, or movie about the story of a rich man, chances are people would picture a rich guy who had a mansion, multiple expensive cars, a limo, servants like a butler, etc. and they would not be making excuses so as to think about some upper middle class dude who if he lost his job he would not be able to able to afford the mortgage.

It doesn't really matter what other people understand wealthy to mean; it's all relative.

For example, the highest salary I ever had, was £8,500 per year. Most people would say that was a pathetic amount, and, if I had been living on my own, it would have been a huge struggle to pay the mortgage and be able to live. Some people earn that sort of money per week, or month.
But I am married, my husband had a well paid job and paid our mortgage. I was getting extra money, and what's more, being paid for something that I enjoyed doing.
I don't have a job now, yet I consider that I am rich. Compared to the homeless on our streets; I am. You may not consider that I am.
But if hoarded my benefits, refused to give anything to anyone and spent all my time thinking/dreaming about money and how to earn more for myself, I'd be just as bad, if not worse, than someone who had millions but gave 75% of it away.
 
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It doesn't really matter what other people understand wealthy to mean; it's all relative.

For example, the highest salary I ever had, was £8,500 per year. Most people would say that was a pathetic amount, and, if I had been living on my own, it would have been a huge struggle to pay the mortgage and be able to live. Some people earn that sort of money per week, or month.
But I am married, my husband had a well paid job and paid our mortgage. I was getting extra money, and what's more, being paid for something that I enjoyed doing.
I don't have a job now, yet I consider that I am rich. Compared to the homeless on our streets; I am. You may not consider that I am.
But if hoarded my benefits, refused to give anything to anyone and spent all my time thinking/dreaming about money and how to earn more for myself, I'd be just as bad, if not worse, than someone who had millions but gave 75% of it away.

Right, we can be guilty for even hoarding material things as a middle class average Joe or Joanne. But we cannot give what we do not have, either. If we are limited in resources, we can only give so much. But the point here is that the rich are in an entirely different category of self indulgence that goes beyond the norm and is excessively selfish to the extreme. Mansions, luxury cars, butlers, limos, expensive restaurants, and clothes, etc. Many of the rich will ignore the beggar crying outside their gates. But we know what happened to the rich man in that story in Luke 16.
 
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Yeah like worldly preaching that sounds like 4 centuries ago.

Worldly preaching is very much alive today. It is the popular wide gate path or belief today. Christians today hold big concerts every Sunday or a big show dazzling their audiences with performances. Most today believe you can sin and still be saved. To serve your worldly carnal nature and yet you can still be right with God. This of course is not the narrow way that Jesus taught, though.
 
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Worldly preaching is very much alive today. It is the popular wide gate path or belief today. Christians today hold big concerts every Sunday or a big show dazzling their audiences with performances. Most today believe you can sin and still be saved. To serve your worldly carnal nature and yet you can still be right with God. This of course is not the narrow way that Jesus taught, though.
At the same time, there is a spartan version that is very stoic in appearance, yet lacking in Spiritual substance once an attack from the enemy comes. Oh wait, that's my fault for not being strong enough, afterall, this is Sparta.
 
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But the point here is that the rich are in an entirely different category of self indulgence that goes beyond the norm and is excessively selfish to the extreme. Mansions, luxury cars, butlers, limos, expensive restaurants, and clothes, etc. Many of the rich will ignore the beggar crying outside their gates. But we know what happened to the rich man in that story in Luke 16.

Many of them might do, yes. They may well be non Christians who live for themselves and the pleasures of this world.
Then again, they may be Christians who support charities, sponsor children, give to the poor and build houses for the homeless.
 
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I think Romans Chapter 12 is a good application passage for this theme. How each christian interprets "the pattern of the world" will vary, but the constant transformation and renewing of the mind is what's important.
 
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Many of them might do, yes. They may well be non Christians who live for themselves and the pleasures of this world.
Then again, they may be Christians who support charities, sponsor children, give to the poor and build houses for the homeless.

But if they have mansions, expensive cars, butlers, etc. and or just let millions sit in the bank for their own peace of mind, they are being wasteful with the resources that they have and they have and not giving much to God's kingdom from God's perspective on their heart. Remember, the poor widow gave more than all the religious rich combined according to Jesus.
 
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