Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the faith.

[Bible Highlighter]

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You do realize that when you tell us we will go to Hell for watching secular movies or for gaming, you're doing just as you say we should not do when you say "and sure somebody can make up their own rules on holiness,". You're not only making up rules, but attempting to impose them on others, and put a guilt trip on those who do what is not forbidden.

There are so many things that are specially forbidden in the bible, things that we definitely cannot do, so to me it makes no sense at all to try to take away what little joy we are allowed, what little that God has NOT specially said not too.

If those thing cause you problems, you definitely shouldn't do them....they are sin...to you.

And BTW, the only thing you mention in your list that is sin specially is the inappropriate content. Also, I've a question for you, have you given up "money" one of the things you actually say will send us to hell/cause us to "not make it"?

I understand you mean well, but IMO, and FWIW, you are going too far.

Here are some verses and points to consider:

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" (2 Corinthians 10:5).​

How is one casting down imaginations and leading every thought captive to Christ if they are fantasizing about sinful things?

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." (1 John 2:15).​

Is worldly entertainment a thing that is a part of the world's sinful ways? Yes. There are sinful things in movies, music, role playing games, comics, and books, etc. To deny this is to deny reality. We are told to love not the things in the world (Which is a part of not loving the world). If we love the world, the love of the Father is not in us.

24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Matthew 16:24-27).​

Whosever shall lose his life shall find it. Is one losing their life when they indulge in secular sinful movies, games, and books? Surely not. Jesus says to pick up your cross and to deny yourself. How is one denying their life if they are still indulging in the same sinful things that they did when they were an unbeliever? It makes no sense. Just writing it off as fantasy does not undo the sinful things within entertainment. Jesus says a person can commit adultery in their heart. John says you can murder by just hating your brother. So there is no such thing as us fantasizing about sinful things and it being okay with God. It doesn't work like that.

Part of the reason why God destroyed the whole world was because their thoughts were evil continually. Jesus says,

"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8).

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
(Matthew 24:37).
​

I believe we are in the last days (Which is obvious if you look around you).
For Paul says in the last days there are those who will have a form of godliness, and that they are lovers of pleasures more than they are lovers of God. Bible studies that focus on food instead of the Bible. Church services that focus on putting on a show instead of getting to know people in the crowd and seeking to help to make them disciples of Jesus Christ.

1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5).​

When a person defends secular sinful movies, they are loving pleasures more than they are loving God. God is about relationships. He wants us to walk in His light and know His love; So we can love Him and others.

How can we have the assurance in knowing God? Well, we can have the assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3-4). Are we keeping the commands of Jesus to deny ourself when we indulge in sinful movies, or role playing games that has sinful things within it? Surely not. One is satisfying their lusts and desires to hold on to the old world and it's sinful ways.

I get it. When I first got saved, I did not like the idea of getting rid of the things of this world. I started on that path, and then fought against it shortly after. I rationalized that God wanted me to be happy. But in time, I came to understand that the the things of the world are sinful, and I should not draw pleasure from things that promote sinful things and that CAN make Christians and unbelievers to stumble into sin.

For what if the son of a father started to dabble in witchcraft secretly because they seen the D&D garbage in their father's home? What if a child started to do drugs because their father watched a TV show about a guy who takes drugs to be super intelligent? Think, my friend.

We are bought and paid for with a price.
We are not our own.
We are to offer our bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God which is our reasonable service.

In any event, whether you agree or disagree, may the Lord's love be upon you today.

 

[Just Another User]

Great as always, Jason.

I wouldn't take a complete stance against all secular films but I would agree that practically everything and TV and in the Cinemas are not things we Christians should be watching.

I'm not the biggest fan of self promotion but if you'd like to see what early Christians universally thought about entertainment then here's some quotes by them.

Early Christians on Entertainment

 

[Tone]

Forsaking the things of this world is a part of the faith.

Computers and coffee too?

 

[Der Alte]

Computers and coffee too?

Hey! I was going to say that. I'm looking for the verse that tells us to condemn others who claim to be Christians because they are more well off than we are.

John 21:20-22
(20) Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
(21) Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
(22) Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.​

 

[Just Another User]

Computers and coffee too?

Well obviously he doesn't mean literally worldly creations but "worldly" in the spiritualist sense. To the best of my knowledge coffee and Computers are neutrally moral since they promote neither good nor bad in it's basic sense.

Neither does entertainment (I'll refer to entertainment as something akin to TV and films rather than the subjective emotion projected on actions) support evilness in a basic level because intrinsically it's neutral.

However, if said entertainment contains something immoral e.g. promoting adultery or sinfulness, it should be avoided. In the same way that sex isn't bad but a misuse of it is, entertainment isn't bad but a misuse of it is.

(you could make the case for secular media being bad inherently and it would still make sense)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Good topic...

I have the impression that some are called to a more sanctified life as they will be destined to come under more severe spiritual opposition.

Some are called to be on the cutting edge of the kingdom and must be squeeky clean.

There are individual differences also, for example I have to obey His word for me not to drink coffee of tea. I have no problem with others doing so unless they have had a similar personal Word.

We havn't as a family had TV for years - personally I see little to gain from TV at all.

As with all things, hear His word in our hearts regarding what is required of us.

It is good to ask Jesus to walk through ones house and pinpoint that which grieves Him.

I like to refer to Psalm 101:2-4 The works of the flesh should not cling to us...

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Great as always, Jason.

I wouldn't take a complete stance against all secular films but I would agree that practically everything and TV and in the Cinemas are not things we Christians should be watching.

I'm not the biggest fan of self promotion but if you'd like to see what early Christians universally thought about entertainment then here's some quotes by them.

Early Christians on Entertainment

I am not against films that tell the true story of the life of a Christian in their hard years (if it points us to God as the answer), and I am not against educational nature documentaries. But even in nature documentaries, I have seen them push Darwinism, and or the Buddah religion. But from my experience, usually fictional films are sinful in some way. It could be a false worldly theology or thinking that is contrary to God.

 

[Just Another User]

I am not against films that tell the true story of the life of a Christian in their hard years (if it points us to God as the answer), and I am not against educational nature documentaries. But even in nature documentaries, I have seen them push Darwinism, and or the Buddah religion. But from my experience, usually fictional films are sinful in some way. It could be a false worldly theology or thinking that is contrary to God.

I agree with pretty much all of that despite the Evolution comment.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Computers and coffee too?

Owning a computer does not mean you are rich in any way. I remember there was a homeless guy who lived with me for a while. He had a beat up computer but he had no other real major possessions besides that and a pair of roller skates. A person can save up and buy a computer and be debt free of it if they work a couple of extra hours at their job for a month or two. Coffee is also not a possession of the rich where you would be considered a millionaire or in the excess of extreme wealth.

Computers can be used for the kingdom of God.
Coffee can keep you sober and alert to study God's Word longer.

Disciples in the Bible were allowed to keep houses.
Obviously this is to provide for their family.
For the disciple Jason mentioned in the Bible was said to have a house.
The problem arises is when people decide that they have to become rich in this life (Which is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ and Paul).

The problem is that many of these Christian millionaires are wealthy at the expense of the flock who are not wealthy (and in some cases are struggling financially).

 

[Kenny'sID]

Here are some verses and points to consider:

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" (2 Corinthians 10:5).​

How is one casting down imaginations and leading every thought captive to Christ if they are fantasizing about sinful things?

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." (1 John 2:15).​

Is worldly entertainment a thing that is a part of the world's sinful ways? Yes. There are sinful things in movies, music, role playing games, comics, and books, etc. To deny this is to deny reality. We are told to love not the things in the world (Which is a part of not loving the world). If we love the world, the love of the Father is not in us.

24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (Matthew 16:24-27).​

Whosever shall lose his life shall find it. Is one losing their life when they indulge in secular sinful movies, games, and books? Surely not. Jesus says to pick up your cross and to deny yourself. How is one denying their life if they are still indulging in the same sinful things that they did when they were an unbeliever? It makes no sense. Just writing it off as fantasy does not undo the sinful things within entertainment. Jesus says a person can commit adultery in their heart. John says you can murder by just hating your brother. So there is no such thing as us fantasizing about sinful things and it being okay with God. It doesn't work like that.

Part of the reason why God destroyed the whole world was because their thoughts were evil continually. Jesus says,

"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8).

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
(Matthew 24:37).
​

I believe we are in the last days (Which is obvious if you look around you).
For Paul says in the last days there are those who will have a form of godliness, and that they are lovers of pleasures more than they are lovers of God. Bible studies that focus on food instead of the Bible. Church services that focus on putting on a show instead of getting to know people in the crowd and seeking to help to make them disciples of Jesus Christ.

1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5).​

When a person defends secular sinful movies, they are loving pleasures more than they are loving God. God is about relationships. He wants us to walk in His light and know His love; So we can love Him and others.

How can we have the assurance in knowing God? Well, we can have the assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3-4). Are we keeping the commands of Jesus to deny ourself when we indulge in sinful movies, or role playing games that has sinful things within it? Surely not. One is satisfying their lusts and desires to hold on to the old world and it's sinful ways.

I get it. When I first got saved, I did not like the idea of getting rid of the things of this world. I started on that path, and then fought against it shortly after. I rationalized that God wanted me to be happy. But in time, I came to understand that the the things of the world are sinful, and I should not draw pleasure from things that promote sinful things and that CAN make Christians and unbelievers to stumble into sin.

For what if the son of a father started to dabble in witchcraft secretly because they seen the D&D garbage in their father's home? What if a child started to do drugs because their father watched a TV show about a guy who takes drugs to be super intelligent? Think, my friend.

We are bought and paid for with a price.
We are not our own.
We are to offer our bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God which is our reasonable service.

In any event, whether you agree or disagree, may the Lord's love be upon you today.

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

First, I'm not going to read all that. I touched on a few issues and you should have directed your replies to each point. There just no way you can expect me to cover every point you make there, especially if they are as wrongly accusing as the one I quoted there. It's just not an orderly way to do this.

Why do you assume we love pleasures more than God? Are you looking in our window at every move we make? You need to answer the actual questions. And the one i asked on money...no answer? It really is out there to tell other they sin if they use money, as if you do not use it. You're starting to worry me actually.

Do you think you could dial it down a bit, and answer my question about money and touch on the other simple points questions I mentioned without writing a novel?

You are making WAy too many assumptions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

First, I'm not going to read all that. I touched on a few issues and you should have directed your replies to each point. There just no way you can expect me to cover every point you make there, especially if they are as wrongly accusing as the one I quoted there. It's just not an orderly way to do this.

Why do you assume we love pleasures more than God? Are you looking in our window at every move we make? You need to answer the actual questions. And the one i asked on money...no answer? It really is out there to tell other they sin if they use money, as if you do not use it. You're starting to worry me actually.

Do you think you could dial it down a bit, and answer my question about money and touch on the other simple points questions I mentioned without writing a novel?

You are making WAy too many assumptions.

If you are not going to read all of my post, then why I should read all of your post? I made some good points with Scripture. If you don’t want to discuss them, then it is best we agree to disagree in love.

Anyways, peace be unto you in the Lord.

 

[Kenny'sID]

How much money do you give us permission to have? What is acceptable to you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How much money do you give us permission to have? What is acceptable to you?

I am willing to answer, but you have to actually read my previous larger post to you and address some of my points with Scripture. It’s only fair. Otherwise the conversation is all one sided in your favor.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you are not going to read all of my post, then why I should read all of your post? I made some good points with Scripture. If you don’t want to discuss them, then it is best we agree to disagree in love.

Anyways, peace be unto you in the Lord.

i doubt fairness is of any interest to you now, you'd just rather not answer my direct questions/comments, and that's as good a reason as any to cop out..

However, if you are interested i being fair, you caused me not to read all that, because you chose not to answer my post first, you completely ignored my questions comments, creating the first foul as well as simply posting to much there, TMI at a time confuses things...break it down a bit.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I am willing to answer, but you have to actually read my previous larger post to you and address some of my points with Scripture. It’s only fair. Otherwise the conversation is all one sided in your favor.

You made it one sided, it was your choice. Please go back and read what I said, or what you were replying to wit the long post, comment/answer, and we'll go from there.

Keep it simple

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You made it one sided, it was your choice. Please go back and read what I said, or what you were replying to wit the long post, comment/answer, and we'll go from there.

Keep it simple

You cannot employ standards upon that which you do not hold to yourself. For you have created a long post here at Christian Forums before and had criticized another for not reading your long post.

As of Feb 24, 2019, 12:51PM Central Time: Folks can see these posts here, and here that show that you are not being fair here.

Here are your posts in the other thread:

OK, you asked for it.

If you aren't already aware of all this, lets start with the term Pharmacy, and most relevant, just take note of the word I bolded in the following...simply the Greek for seller of drugs:

phar·ma·cy
ˈfärməsē/
noun
noun: pharmacy; plural noun: pharmacies

a store where medicinal drugs are dispensed and sold.
the science or practice of the preparation and dispensing of medicinal drugs.

Origin
late Middle English (denoting the administration of drugs): from Old French farmacie, via medieval Latin from Greek pharmakeia ‘practice of the druggist,’ based on pharmakon ‘drug.’

You can verify all over the net if you wish, and where the term pharmacy, or those who sell drugs comes from? "Sorcery". True, "Pharmacy" is for legal drugs in this day and age, but still, it's very relevant where the term came from and what it meant back then when the sorcerer was the drug dealer.

Next...this from the Strong's Concordance on pharmakeia:

"Lexicon :: Strong's G5331 - pharmakeia
φαρμακεία
Transliteration
pharmakeia

Pronunciation
fär-mä-kā'-ä (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun

Root Word (Etymology)
From φαρμακεύς (G5332)
Dictionary Aids

Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
KJV Translation Count — Total: 3x
The KJV translates Strong's G5331 in the following manner: sorcery (2x), witchcraft (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

the use or the administering of drugs

poisoning

sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
†φαρμακεία pharmakeía, far-mak-i'-ah; from G5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):—sorcery, witchcraft."

Still with me? Ok...good. Now that you know what it is, (drug dealers/sellers were the sorcerers) and you probably already know where I'm going with this, but let's get to that biblical proof you wanted:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12(KJV)

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Again, you probably already know, but see the term Wizard here as bolded from the prior verse, and what it means. And following the wizard defintion, I even quote the same from the ESV, where they actually use the term sorcerer, instead of Wizard.

wiz·ard
ˈwizərd/
noun
noun: wizard; plural noun: wizards

1.
a man who has magical powers, especially in legends and fairy tales.
synonyms: sorcerer, warlock, magus, (black) magician, necromancer, enchanter; archaicmage
"the wizard cast a spell over them"

The ESV version I mentioned:

Deuteronomy 18:10–12 (ESV)

10 There shall not be found among you anyone xwho burns his son or his daughter as an offering,5 anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or cone who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

I'll get to some of your interpretations from the Bible, and the "medicinal" part later, but until then, check me out on all that to make sure I'm being truthful. And again, there is so much more on it out there for the searching.

That is no defense at all, drugs are a no no, and I showed you why in a long post you all but ignored, (and you say *I've* made up *my* mind not to listen?)

Murder and theft aren't "lawful" in your scripture there, yet you completely discount the fact pot is not lawful, and treat it like water or something.

The end time system is trying to make it look like a fix all for everything in order to get it legal so they can tax it and keep everyone high/happy happy, when the fact is, we can all become drunks to do that, but what would that say about us as a people...that we can't handle life?

Pot is not mentioned specifically in the bible but alcohol is, as is being a drunkard, or staying high all the time.

We were put here so God could see how we deal with life, but as example, one could stay buzzed on say ecstasy and love everyone as God commands, but only because we are on drugs, and not in our natural state, mucking up all he is trying to do/defeating his purpose in seeing what our true character is so he can decide if we deserve heaven or not.

You say "only for medicinal purposes", but, as I mentioned, we all know, if we are realistic, the medicinal thing is to get it legalized for recreation, and of that I have no doubt at all...many people can see that is a fact. As has been proven time and time again, they will prescribe it for just about anything, it's a complete joke. Read between the lines on that.

But if someone can't handle life or simply want to make it easier, the main reason most get deep into drugs, so be it, that's something we as individuals will have to answer to God for, all in good time.

I remember telling myself I have all these disadvantages due to a bout with Polio as a child, so I should be able to grow it to make money "God understands" and smoke it for my well being. I never really believed my justifications but grew a ton of it just the same, in order to try to take care of myself both financially and to meet my "medical need"...what a joke.

Even went so far as to tell myself everyone else was stupid for not buzzing through life feeling much better than they could, I was in that much denial. When we want to do something bad enough we come up with some of the most bizarre justifications. Point being, I had reason for being depressed...but, that's part of the life I was given...we all have our problems.

By the grace of God I would never go into complete denial. I always told myself once I started convincing myself my reasons for were all definitely valid, there would be no hope for me to wake up because there would be nothing to wake up from because I would be doing nothing wrong in my mind.

I woke up.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You cannot employ standards upon that which you do not hold to yourself. For you have created a long post here at Christian Forums before and had criticized another for not reading your long post.

As of Feb 24, 2019, 12:51PM Central Time: Folks can see these posts here, and here that show that you are not being fair here.

Here are your posts in the other thread:

Those both entailed definitions that for the convenience of the reader I post in full instead of just posting a link.
But it doesn't matter, when you stoop to that level to avoid it, you clearly are not interested in answering my questions.

On the outside chance I'm wrong, though you don't seem like a very forgiving individual, can you please forgive me of my past actions that appear to excuse you from disusing this in an orderly fashion, and can we now move on with that discussion?

What started this was no answers from you, but you keep avoiding that fact with every trick you can come up with.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Those both entailed definitions that for the convenience of the reader I post in full instead of just posting a link.
But it doesn't matter, when you stoop to that level to avoid it, you clearly are not interested in answering my questions.

On the outside chance I'm wrong, though you don't seem like a very forgiving individual, can you please forgive me of my past actions that appear to excuse you from disusing this in an orderly fashion, and can we now move on with that discussion?

What started this was no answers from you, but you keep avoiding that fact with every trick you can come up with.

There is nothing to forgive. I hold no malice towards you. I am just pointing out that you don’t hold the same standard for others that you do for yourself.

If you changed, you need to apologize and say that you don’t approve of the use of long posts anymore. Maybe create a thread explaining this (So as to show you turned over a new leaf). If not, then it merely looks like you are not taking the beam out of your own eye, my friend.

For you cannot judge me for something that you allow for yourself. It doesn’t seem fair.

 

[Kenny'sID]

There is nothing to forgive. I am just pointing out that you don’t hold the same standard for others that you do for yourself.

If you changed, you need to apologize and say that you don’t approve of the use of long posts anymore. Maybe create a thread explaining this (So as to show you turned over a new leaf).

I explained my long quote posts to my satisfaction, with once again no input at all from you on my point....see the pattern? But again, none of that matters, this is all by design, in order for you to avoid discussion on something you evidently don't feel you can back up...not to mention a waste of our time.

Either discuss it by responding to my actual post, and I'll then reply to your response, and not ignore it, or don't. At this point, those are your only two choices.