Former famous Occultist (new ager) has powerful conversion to Christianity

[createdtoworship]

Here is his testimony on His own youtube channel:

 

[createdtoworship]

Here is his testimony on His own youtube channel:

I didn't want to put it in the OP but what do you guys think of aliens? Lets get this thread started. That was what made him doubt christianity ,so I thought I would start out with that topic.

Here is a document that talks about how Hank Hanagraaf and walter martin (cult experts) viewed UFO's and aliens, as well as an article from equip.org
UFO's and Aliens -New Age parallels-converted.pdf

 

[Mountainmanbob]

what do you guys think of aliens?



Lets get this thread started. That was what made him doubt christianity ,so I thought I would start out with that topic.

If there are probably from the demonic side.
M-Bob

 

[createdtoworship]

If there are probably from the demonic side.
M-Bob

yeah, I uploaded a document I made from a few sources, you can download it it's in word format, I will also make a pdf of it too for phones. (update: I changed it to pdf so phones can read it)

 

[public hermit]

I didn't want to put it in the OP but what do you guys think of aliens? Lets get this thread started. That was what made him doubt christianity ,so I thought I would start out with that topic.

Here is a document that talks about how Hank Hanagraaf and walter martin (cult experts) viewed UFO's and aliens, as well as an article from equip.org
UFO's and Aliens -New Age parallels.pdf

I don't see why the existence of other beings, such as "aliens," would be considered a reason against theism.

As far as Christianity is concerned, I still don't see how the existence of other beings in the universe would necessarily function as a possible defeater for Christianity. It would be fairly easy to imagine a fitting scenario.

Here's one such possibility: the Son became incarnate because humans are the only creatures in the universe with a sin condition. All other intelligent, physical creatures have persevered in rectitude with Creator and have wisely avoided earth so as not to become infected. Moreover, they face their mortality in perfect peace understanding that existence is a gift and future lives are granted to those who remain in rectitude with the Creator. I am sure there are other possible scenarios.

 

[createdtoworship]

duplicate

 

[createdtoworship]

I don't see why the existence of other beings, such as "aliens," would be considered a reason against theism.

As far as Christianity is concerned, I still don't see how the existence of other beings in the universe would necessarily function as a possible defeater for Christianity. It would be fairly easy to imagine a fitting scenario.

Here's one such possibility: the Son became incarnate because humans are the only creatures in the universe with a sin condition. All other intelligent, physical creatures have persevered in rectitude with Creator and have wisely avoided earth so as not to become infected. Moreover, they face their mortality in perfect peace understanding that existence is a gift and future lives are granted to those who remain in rectitude with the Creator. I am sure there are other possible scenarios.

Sorry @public hermit I edited this post and wanted you to see it...


Thanks for the reply, aliens are not against theism. But against christianity. Jesus died for the world it says in scripture. And it was adam and eve's sin. You have the doctrine of yhe first and last adam for example. If aliens existed most likely they would be fallen as well, and that certainly is what the evidence dictates, they are not very benevolent. So they too would need salvation. But God does not have another son to offer for their salvation. Besides it just seems to go against the motive for creation account. If God created man to ultimately be Married to Christ, how does that work for aliens salvation? They would have a different Christ and gospel. And could not be married to christ. So what is their purpose? To invade? To light up the night sky in arizona? To confuse navy pilots? I mean really, why are they created by God? Most likely they are fabricated by the demonic host to provide an alternate creation narrative than the scriptures. And what the man in the OP said was that it was aliens that caused him to doubt christianity. So we need to talk about what they are. So that stuff does not happen.

 

[public hermit]

Sorry @public hermit I edited this post and wanted you to see it...


Thanks for the reply, aliens are not against theism. But against christianity. Jesus died for the world it says in scripture. And it was adam and eve's sin. You have the doctrine of yhe first and last adam for example. If aliens existed most likely they would be fallen as well, and that certainly is what the evidence dictates, they are not very benevolent. So they too would need salvation. But God does not have another son to offer for their salvation. Besides it just seems to go against the motive for creation account. If God created man to ultimately be Married to Christ, how does that work for aliens salvation? They would have a different Christ and gospel. And could not be married to christ. So what is their purpose? To invade? To light up the night sky in arizona? To confuse navy pilots? I mean really, why are they created by God? Most likely they are fabricated by the demonic host to provide an alternate creation narrative than the scriptures. And what the man in the OP said was that it was aliens that caused him to doubt christianity. So we need to talk about what they are. So that stuff does not happen.

I take your assumptions about aliens to be as speculative as mine. I'm not sure why they would most likely be fallen. I'm also not sure what evidence you're referring to. Do we have evidence that they're malevolent? Whatever the case, they could be. But, maybe not. Not all angels are malevolent.

My main point was that, as things stand in which we don't have definitive proof regarded these possible beings, there's really no reason to see their possible existence as a defeater for Christianity. If someone sees them as such, then I would say they are assuming way more than they know.

 

[createdtoworship]

I take your assumptions about aliens to be as speculative as mine. I'm not sure why they would most likely be fallen. I'm also not sure what evidence you're referring to. Do we have evidence that they're malevolent? Whatever the case, they could be. But, maybe not. Not all angels are malevolent.

My main point was that, as things stand in which we don't have definitive proof regarded these possible beings, there's really no reason to see their possible existence as a defeater for Christianity. If someone sees them as such, then I would say they are assuming way more than they know.

There is a whole document I posted with many cases of abductions etc, as all being malevolent. Most of first hand encounters with aliens were not good. They typically go after non christians, and there are even some encounters where people said they smelled sulfer (a smell of a fallen angel). This is all hearsay, but in the document there is actual eye witnesses that alien encounters are usually bad experiences.

here is the document again so you can read it, let me know what you think...

UFO's and Aliens -New Age parallels-converted.pdf

lastly, even if there is no evidence they are malevolent (and there is), but say there was not. That does not solve the dilemna.... there is no indication that aliens are perfect creatures, which they would need to enter heaven. See salvation is either by grace or works. Jesus was perfect. If we are to enter heaven we must be perfect too, but the first time we sin, we forfeit that option. There is no reason to logically think aliens are any more moral than anything else in the universe. So we must assume they are like everything else in the universe fallen. There are some angels that are not fallen, and they are doing a great job at not falling by the way, but they will be judged for their actions by christians on day. So even unfallen angels have judgement. But I don't see any allowances for judgement of non humans other than that in scripture. You would think there would be some indication of other races of beings. And there is not. So the only logical option is that they are demonic hosts. That is all that is left.

 

[createdtoworship]

I take your assumptions about aliens to be as speculative as mine. I'm not sure why they would most likely be fallen. I'm also not sure what evidence you're referring to. Do we have evidence that they're malevolent? Whatever the case, they could be. But, maybe not. Not all angels are malevolent.

My main point was that, as things stand in which we don't have definitive proof regarded these possible beings, there's really no reason to see their possible existence as a defeater for Christianity. If someone sees them as such, then I would say they are assuming way more than they know.

I am going to repost the article without the first article's sources so people don't miss the second half.

here it is:
UFO's and Aliens -New Age parallels-converted.pdf

 

[coffee4u]

I didn't want to put it in the OP but what do you guys think of aliens? Lets get this thread started. That was what made him doubt christianity ,so I thought I would start out with that topic.

Here is a document that talks about how Hank Hanagraaf and walter martin (cult experts) viewed UFO's and aliens, as well as an article from equip.org
UFO's and Aliens -New Age parallels-converted.pdf

Demons.

 

[public hermit]

There is a whole document I posted with many cases of abductions etc, as all being malevolent. Most of first hand encounters with aliens were not good. They typically go after non christians, and there are even some encounters where people said they smelled sulfer (a smell of a fallen angel). This is all hearsay, but in the document there is actual eye witnesses that alien encounters are usually bad experiences.

here is the document again so you can read it, let me know what you think...

UFO's and Aliens -New Age parallels-converted.pdf

lastly, even if there is no evidence they are malevolent (and there is), but say there was not. That does not solve the dilemna.... there is no indication that aliens are perfect creatures, which they would need to enter heaven. See salvation is either by grace or works. Jesus was perfect. If we are to enter heaven we must be perfect too, but the first time we sin, we forfeit that option. There is no reason to logically think aliens are any more moral than anything else in the universe. So we must assume they are like everything else in the universe fallen. There are some angels that are not fallen, and they are doing a great job at not falling by the way, but they will be judged for their actions by christians on day. So even unfallen angels have judgement. But I don't see any allowances for judgement of non humans other than that in scripture. You would think there would be some indication of other races of beings. And there is not. So the only logical option is that they are demonic hosts. That is all that is left.

Interesting articles. The first one seems more measured than the second. It admits that some sightings are explained and that there is just a lot we don't know. I dont agree with your assertion of the "only logical option." But, we can disagree.

Given that there is much we don't know I will go with the wisdom simillar to that of Gamaliel. If they are demonic then we have nothing to fear for they are creatures subject to the will of God. If they are benign we have nothing to fear, except the possibility that our presumptions to the contrary may lead us to treat that which is good as evil. Whatever the case, we should not presume but allow things to unfold trusting in the providence and sovereignty of the Almighty. The reality is there are enough unmistakable evils today with which to concern ourselves. The evils of tomorrow will have their own day.

 

[createdtoworship]

Interesting articles. The first one seems more measured than the second. It admits that some sightings are explained and that there is just a lot we don't know. I dont agree with your assertion of the "only logical option." But, we can disagree.

Given that there is much we don't know I will go with the wisdom simillar to that of Gamaliel. If they are demonic then we have nothing to fear for they are creatures subject to the will of God. If they are benign we have nothing to fear, except the possibility that our presumptions to the contrary may lead us to treat that which is good as evil. Whatever the case, we should not presume but allow things to unfold trusting in the providence and sovereignty of the Almighty. The reality is there are enough unmistakable evils today with which to concern ourselves. The evils of tomorrow will have their own day.

Again the articles suggest that alien encounters increase the further you are into new age, have you ever wondered why aliens like arizona? New age territory. It's not that they like the desert. But anyway I am not saying that some of the encounters are not military they can be l. But the ones in arizona are not. And since we have numerous eye witnesses as to the evil of these creatures and to their religious preference we can either ignore the evidence and say they are benign or believe the mass accounts that reveal that they are just demonic. Remember possessions that are violent in nature have subsided for the most part. They still happen but possessions are typically thought of as mental illness, not the violent types you see in the new teatament. I believe the demonic host has an alien program, and removed for the most part the violent demonic possession program from the west. They can do more damage this way, by mass deception .

 

[FireDragon76]

Arizona is "new age territory"? No it isn't. I had family out in Arizona . Arizona is a conservative southwestern state that had white settlement primarily from the southern US.

 

[createdtoworship]

Arizona is "new age territory"? No it isn't. I had family out in Arizona . Arizona is a conservative southwestern state that had white settlement primarily from the southern US.

sedona is america's new age capital, not sure about the rest of the state:

Spiritual Sedona: the Arizona town bursting with positive vibes

 

[FireDragon76]

sedona is america's new age capital, not sure about the rest of the state:

Spiritual Sedona: the Arizona town bursting with positive vibes

There are people like that in many US states now, it isn't unique.

 

[createdtoworship]

There are people like that in many US states now, it isn't unique.

don't get all sensitive, it's just that it's not unknown that sedona area of arizona is "new agey"

 

[FireDragon76]

don't get all sensitive, it's just that it's not unknown that sedona area of arizona is "new agey"

Many Americans have new age beliefs to one degree or another, even some Christians. New Thought has relatively old roots in America.

 

[createdtoworship]

Many Americans have new age beliefs to one degree or another, even some Christians. New Thought has relatively old roots in America.

Oh I don't disagree with you there. But that is not a good thing, that is just a sign of how eastern religions have permeated the west which was once a christianized nation a hundred years ago.

 

[FireDragon76]

Oh I don't disagree with you there. But that is not a good thing, that is just a sign of how eastern religions have permeated the west which was once a christianized nation a hundred years ago.

100 years ago the US was a religiously diverse country, similar to today.