Please refute the conclusion that Judaism&Christianity are better explained by ancient aliens than Creator God.

[AetheriusLamia]

How would you refute this argument? Would you share resources online or citations for further study?

1. All the history and miracles in the Christian Bible (including Hebrew Scriptures, both Old and New Testament) can be explained by aliens with advanced technology who deceived humans, rather than a supernatural God telling the truth.
2. This theory has more explanatory power as it accounts for suffering, God's absence today, lack of miraculous answers to prayer today, reports of alien sightings, etc.
3. The only problem this theory appears to introduce is how to explain cause-and-effect, i.e. the reliability of the universe enabling the scientific method. (See Ed Feser's Aquinas, The Last Superstition.) However, just as Christians say God or God's nature is a brute fact, we are free to likewise say the universe being reliable and intelligible in this way simply is a brute fact. Thus there is no loss of explanatory power. Other issues: Exorcisms are explained through power of suggestion and imagination; other miracle claims are simply due to natural phenomenon or contain falsehoods in their reporting (or could be the same aliens operating again).
4. Thus "it was aliens" accounts for more of the facts (namely, suffering, unanswered prayer, God's absence) than the God-claims of Judaism or Christianity and is to be preferred rationally.

Please note the argument is not declaring that aliens exist. Rather, the supposition is that, since both God and aliens are not certainly known to exist, aliens provide more explanatory power. (I have studied philosophical proofs for the existence of God, and they all rest on uncertain premises, so remain uncertain arguments.)

Problems with an earlier attempt to refute this argument:

Consider the facts that Jesus of Nazareth is a historical figure, a man, born of Mary and was crucified under Pontius Pilate. This is firmly embedded in human history and rules out the possibility of Jesus being an alien.

It is not at all certain Mary wasn't abducted by aliens, inseminated via IVF, and brainwashed, for example. It's simply not true that it's an obvious fact that the Gospel is literal historical truth: It's merely what Luke wrote or was told to write.

Furthermore, it‘s also a fact that Jesus reveals Himself to be God.

Yes, and Jesus may have been an alien lying to us. This explains His silence and absence and false promises e.g. 'seek and you shall find', 'knock and the door shall be opened', 'believe that you receive it and it shall be yours.'

if you study Jesus’ words and actions, His character, you’ll also have a hard time making this case [that Jesus lied to us].

The previous comment shares my experience already that Jesus does not keep His promises, and even apart from this despair, it is not difficult to make a Biblical argument. The Gospel says for example 'to them Jesus only spoke in parables, speaking plainly only to His Disciples', i.e. he was not concerned that the general public understand him correctly from the outset, indicating a cunning manipulation strategy rather than telling everyone plainly the truth of the matter. He also spoke ambiguously so as to deliberately deceive and mislead, as for example when he discusses 'tearing down this temple and I shall raise it up again' referring to His Body while causing his hearers to naturally understand he was referring to the Jerusalem Temple. So it is plausible his moral code was consistent with deceiving all of mankind, especially if He determined it was 'for our own good' to survive as a species, sentient life being so rare in this universe.

 

[AetheriusLamia]

One possible way to rebut this argument may be through a sort of Bayesian probability analysis: Given X how probable is Y?

In particular:

1. Aliens doing it is just as unknowable in an empirical sense as God doing it. Functionally (semantically?), then, one is replacing "God" with a different god (Being G with Being A). This raises the question of why prefer one to the other if they are otherwise of equal merit. Social conformity if nothing else favors the Being G hypothesis.
2. How can we conclude "aliens worked in the past, thus prayers aren't answered today because no one is there to hear them" is more probable than "God has a good reason both for allowing it and not telling you why"? How is "well it explains why I'm suffering" not in effect 'grasping at straws' by illogically 'assuming your conclusion'? Given the social conformity behind the latter theory, one would need additional external evidence to favor the former, such as knowledge of ancient aliens existing or even current aliens existing.
3. With no such evidence, one is 'grasping at the ether': One should favor conforming to the group consensus, since some external stimuli occurred in favor of this theory, unlike the other theory, thus making it more probable.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I regret to say there’s a lot of problems here! What you say betray Biblical illiteracy and a lack of understanding of history. We can’t divorce the Bible and the people related to it from history. And if we want to understand the Bible, we’ll do well to understand it on its own terms and not to import our own ideas into the texts.

Very simply, is there anything from history that makes you think Jesus either is an alien or collaborated with aliens? First you’d have to prove the existence of aliens and their abilities, then you’d have to find evidence that Jesus has some connection with them. Then you’d have to offer an alternative explanation for the continuity of the Scriptures. That’s a tall order and is, to be charitable, at best an argument from silence. I think the more you study Jesus, the more you start to see the problem with your theory.

 

[NBB]

You can have experiences with God, as real as anything else. And biblical also.

 

[Strong in Him]

How would you refute this argument? Would you share resources online or citations for further study?

1. All the history and miracles in the Christian Bible (including Hebrew Scriptures, both Old and New Testament) can be explained by aliens with advanced technology who deceived humans, rather than a supernatural God telling the truth.

I don't believe in aliens - end of argument.

Please note the argument is not declaring that aliens exist. Rather, the supposition is that, since both God and aliens are not certainly known to exist,

But I do know God exists.
I know it because of his creation, because of his word - some of which contains historical detail and can be backed by archaeological evidence.
And I know it because he lives in me, has been faithful, always with me, answered my prayers and blessed me in many ways.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How would you refute this argument? Would you share resources online or citations for further study?

1. All the history and miracles in the Christian Bible (including Hebrew Scriptures, both Old and New Testament) can be explained by aliens with advanced technology who deceived humans, rather than a supernatural God telling the truth.
2. This theory has more explanatory power as it accounts for suffering, God's absence today, lack of miraculous answers to prayer today, reports of alien sightings, etc.
3. The only problem this theory appears to introduce is how to explain cause-and-effect, i.e. the reliability of the universe enabling the scientific method. (See Ed Feser's Aquinas, The Last Superstition.) However, just as Christians say God or God's nature is a brute fact, we are free to likewise say the universe being reliable and intelligible in this way simply is a brute fact. Thus there is no loss of explanatory power. Other issues: Exorcisms are explained through power of suggestion and imagination; other miracle claims are simply due to natural phenomenon or contain falsehoods in their reporting (or could be the same aliens operating again).
4. Thus "it was aliens" accounts for more of the facts (namely, suffering, unanswered prayer, God's absence) than the God-claims of Judaism or Christianity and is to be preferred rationally.

Please note the argument is not declaring that aliens exist. Rather, the supposition is that, since both God and aliens are not certainly known to exist, aliens provide more explanatory power. (I have studied philosophical proofs for the existence of God, and they all rest on uncertain premises, so remain uncertain arguments.)

Problems with an earlier attempt to refute this argument:

It is not at all certain Mary wasn't abducted by aliens, inseminated via IVF, and brainwashed, for example. It's simply not true that it's an obvious fact that the Gospel is literal historical truth: It's merely what Luke wrote or was told to write.

Yes, and Jesus may have been an alien lying to us. This explains His silence and absence and false promises e.g. 'seek and you shall find', 'knock and the door shall be opened', 'believe that you receive it and it shall be yours.'

The previous comment shares my experience already that Jesus does not keep His promises, and even apart from this despair, it is not difficult to make a Biblical argument. The Gospel says for example 'to them Jesus only spoke in parables, speaking plainly only to His Disciples', i.e. he was not concerned that the general public understand him correctly from the outset, indicating a cunning manipulation strategy rather than telling everyone plainly the truth of the matter. He also spoke ambiguously so as to deliberately deceive and mislead, as for example when he discusses 'tearing down this temple and I shall raise it up again' referring to His Body while causing his hearers to naturally understand he was referring to the Jerusalem Temple. So it is plausible his moral code was consistent with deceiving all of mankind, especially if He determined it was 'for our own good' to survive as a species, sentient life being so rare in this universe.

I'm confused. This whole post needs refuting? The onus is on the skeptic. Christians have proof they have a God who loves them through a personal relationship. Not something a skeptic possess so they are woefully unequipped to come into an understanding of our God.

Blessings.

 

[One God and Father of All]

As far as suffering goes, the Bible says that the human race has been condemned to die. Suffering is what happens to those condemned to die.
It also says that the condemnation to death is won through Christ. That does not mean we will no longer suffer and die, it means we will be raised from the dead to never die again and therefore to suffer no more.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Replace "aliens" with "bigfoot", "lizard people", or "fairies".

Is there any reason to believe it was all lizard people or fairies? Because it's just as likely to be lizard people and fairies as it is aliens. And there you have your answer.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[eleos1954]

How would you refute this argument? Would you share resources online or citations for further study?

1. All the history and miracles in the Christian Bible (including Hebrew Scriptures, both Old and New Testament) can be explained by aliens with advanced technology who deceived humans, rather than a supernatural God telling the truth.
2. This theory has more explanatory power as it accounts for suffering, God's absence today, lack of miraculous answers to prayer today, reports of alien sightings, etc.
3. The only problem this theory appears to introduce is how to explain cause-and-effect, i.e. the reliability of the universe enabling the scientific method. (See Ed Feser's Aquinas, The Last Superstition.) However, just as Christians say God or God's nature is a brute fact, we are free to likewise say the universe being reliable and intelligible in this way simply is a brute fact. Thus there is no loss of explanatory power. Other issues: Exorcisms are explained through power of suggestion and imagination; other miracle claims are simply due to natural phenomenon or contain falsehoods in their reporting (or could be the same aliens operating again).
4. Thus "it was aliens" accounts for more of the facts (namely, suffering, unanswered prayer, God's absence) than the God-claims of Judaism or Christianity and is to be preferred rationally.

Please note the argument is not declaring that aliens exist. Rather, the supposition is that, since both God and aliens are not certainly known to exist, aliens provide more explanatory power. (I have studied philosophical proofs for the existence of God, and they all rest on uncertain premises, so remain uncertain arguments.)

Problems with an earlier attempt to refute this argument:

It is not at all certain Mary wasn't abducted by aliens, inseminated via IVF, and brainwashed, for example. It's simply not true that it's an obvious fact that the Gospel is literal historical truth: It's merely what Luke wrote or was told to write.

Yes, and Jesus may have been an alien lying to us. This explains His silence and absence and false promises e.g. 'seek and you shall find', 'knock and the door shall be opened', 'believe that you receive it and it shall be yours.'

The previous comment shares my experience already that Jesus does not keep His promises, and even apart from this despair, it is not difficult to make a Biblical argument. The Gospel says for example 'to them Jesus only spoke in parables, speaking plainly only to His Disciples', i.e. he was not concerned that the general public understand him correctly from the outset, indicating a cunning manipulation strategy rather than telling everyone plainly the truth of the matter. He also spoke ambiguously so as to deliberately deceive and mislead, as for example when he discusses 'tearing down this temple and I shall raise it up again' referring to His Body while causing his hearers to naturally understand he was referring to the Jerusalem Temple. So it is plausible his moral code was consistent with deceiving all of mankind, especially if He determined it was 'for our own good' to survive as a species, sentient life being so rare in this universe.

He also spoke ambiguously so as to deliberately deceive and mislead, as for example when he discusses 'tearing down this temple and I shall raise it up again' referring to His Body

He didn't deceive them ... God/Jesus often speaks in parables and/or metaphors/symbolic language .... the intent is to provoke thought .... not deception .... nor is it deceptive to do so.

God has laws .... good laws ... nothing wrong with them. Sin by very definition is transgression of the law .... no God don't want us to sin and sin is NOT good for us. Sin is what brought death into the world.

Also remember lucifer and 1/3 of the angels sinned so law in heaven as well.

God created all his intelligent beings with free will and all make their choices.

 

[Jipsah]

How would you refute this argument?

Easy - What aliens? There's no real evidence that there are any. End of.

Would you share resources online or citations for further study?

1. All the history and miracles in the Christian Bible (including Hebrew Scriptures, both Old and New Testament) can be explained by aliens

Or fairies, except they don't exist either.

1. with advanced technology who deceived humans, rather than a supernatural God telling the truth.

Who, nonexistent aliens or nonexistent fairies?

1. This theory has more explanatory power as it accounts for suffering, God's absence today, lack of miraculous answers to prayer today, reports of alien sightings, etc.

It has no "power" at all, because it require believing in "aliens: who we have zero reason to believe exist at all.

1. The only problem this theory appears to introduce is how to explain cause-and-effect, i.e. the reliability of the universe enabling the scientific method.

The only problem? I'd think that it attributes to magicalpowers to beings who quite probably don't exist at all. Yeah, other than that...

Please note the argument is not declaring that aliens exist.

It would be very difficult for them to do the stuff they're claimed to have done if they don't exist

Rather, the supposition is that, since both God and aliens are not certainly known to exist, aliens provide more explanatory power.

For nincompoops.

(I have studied philosophical proofs for the existence of God, and they all rest on uncertain premises, so remain uncertain arguments.)

I reckon if people want to believe in magic aliens they're free to do so. People often embace ridiculous beliefs.

It is not at all certain Mary wasn't abducted by aliens

Again, what aliens?

Yes, and Jesus may have been an alien lying to us.

So might you be, or everyone except you.

This explains His silence and absence and false promises e.g. 'seek and you shall find', 'knock and the door shall be opened', 'believe that you receive it and it shall be yours.'

 

[Diamond7]

s

How would you refute this argument?

There is a Jodie Foster movie based on a Carl Sagan (agnostic) book about CONTACT with alien planets. This requires the use of worm holes to travel from here to there. God has designed this universe for there not to be contact between different worlds. It is sort of like the Back to the Future movie where you are dealing with different time zones. Everything requires a time and a place. Even if they can get from one place to another the time factor would be prohibitive. Science accepts evolution. Stephen William Hawking was a cosmologist. To have a vague theory that somehow someway aliens had a effect on us just does not meet the standards of science. I am not a Hawking fan anyways. I think his thinking was pretty screwed up. At least sagan makes an attempt to show how something like that could have happened.

 

[Diamond7]

we have zero reason to believe exist at all.

They would have to come from a planet the size of earth, with the same size sun and all of that.

 

[Soyeong]

How would you refute this argument? Would you share resources online or citations for further study?

1. All the history and miracles in the Christian Bible (including Hebrew Scriptures, both Old and New Testament) can be explained by aliens with advanced technology who deceived humans, rather than a supernatural God telling the truth.
2. This theory has more explanatory power as it accounts for suffering, God's absence today, lack of miraculous answers to prayer today, reports of alien sightings, etc.
3. The only problem this theory appears to introduce is how to explain cause-and-effect, i.e. the reliability of the universe enabling the scientific method. (See Ed Feser's Aquinas, The Last Superstition.) However, just as Christians say God or God's nature is a brute fact, we are free to likewise say the universe being reliable and intelligible in this way simply is a brute fact. Thus there is no loss of explanatory power. Other issues: Exorcisms are explained through power of suggestion and imagination; other miracle claims are simply due to natural phenomenon or contain falsehoods in their reporting (or could be the same aliens operating again).
4. Thus "it was aliens" accounts for more of the facts (namely, suffering, unanswered prayer, God's absence) than the God-claims of Judaism or Christianity and is to be preferred rationally.

Please note the argument is not declaring that aliens exist. Rather, the supposition is that, since both God and aliens are not certainly known to exist, aliens provide more explanatory power. (I have studied philosophical proofs for the existence of God, and they all rest on uncertain premises, so remain uncertain arguments.)

Problems with an earlier attempt to refute this argument:

It is not at all certain Mary wasn't abducted by aliens, inseminated via IVF, and brainwashed, for example. It's simply not true that it's an obvious fact that the Gospel is literal historical truth: It's merely what Luke wrote or was told to write.

Yes, and Jesus may have been an alien lying to us. This explains His silence and absence and false promises e.g. 'seek and you shall find', 'knock and the door shall be opened', 'believe that you receive it and it shall be yours.'

The previous comment shares my experience already that Jesus does not keep His promises, and even apart from this despair, it is not difficult to make a Biblical argument. The Gospel says for example 'to them Jesus only spoke in parables, speaking plainly only to His Disciples', i.e. he was not concerned that the general public understand him correctly from the outset, indicating a cunning manipulation strategy rather than telling everyone plainly the truth of the matter. He also spoke ambiguously so as to deliberately deceive and mislead, as for example when he discusses 'tearing down this temple and I shall raise it up again' referring to His Body while causing his hearers to naturally understand he was referring to the Jerusalem Temple. So it is plausible his moral code was consistent with deceiving all of mankind, especially if He determined it was 'for our own good' to survive as a species, sentient life being so rare in this universe.

If someone gives the attributes of God to aliens, then what they are calling aliens is God.

 

[com7fy8]

So, it seems you are saying that there are people who believe aliens were the ones answering prayers, in earlier times. And they say the aliens have left us and this is why now people's prayers aren't getting answered. And so, they mean that there is no God or He would still be here answering people's prayers.

Well, I hope I would not only argue against this, but offer things which can help us.

Today, we have people who are getting their prayer answered. The answer can be "no", "not you", "not now", "not a good idea, but I am doing something much better; you will see." And, of course, God does grant certain people their requests.

And I am finding how, because God is so more and better than I am, He does so much better than what I ask Him to do.

Also - - - God is our Father who wants us to share with Him, all the time, and all the time to be ruled by Him in His peace guiding each of us personally. Yes, God's word commands us to constantly be submissive to God in His own peace . . . I understand . . . through Colossians 3:15 >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, in case we use prayer to try to get God's attention only when we decide to schedule Him for a meeting . . . and then tune Him out after handing Him a chore and shopping list . . . that's not praying, I would say.

He wants us to pray in the way so we stay attentive to Him all the time. Stay sensitive so we can sense and submit to how He shares with us and rules us in His peace.

And in this peace God proves Himself to us. Arguing can't prove God. He is personal and sharing
. . . here in His peace.

God is quiet, not silent. But we can have our noisy stuff so we do not sense and hear God. We need to put away our noisy stuff so we can relate with God and share well as His family in His gentle and humble love >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

And our prayer in this family loving will be caring about our others and not only and mainly about our own selves.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Here is the argument.

Ancient Alien proponents routinely lie, misrepresent evidence, and leave out evidence that contradicts their claims, and virtually all of their arguments depend on not understanding historical context, or the cultures that they are talking about.