Forcing the Chruch to accept homosexuality..

[Zaac]

Just trying to work out apparent contradictions in some people's views, is all.

Then try to work them out in accordance with the board rules and start another thread.

 

[LightHorseman]

Thank you for acknowledging that Christians ARE IN FACT under attack by pro-gay forces.

Nonsense.

That being said, when you want to "become a member" of a club, you do so with the acceptance that there are rules in place to be followed. If you don't like them, you are free to leave and start your own club.

How very tolerant of you. Unless you are a Catholic, you probably don't understand how Catholics don't "join" the club, most of us are born into it. And This is not the first time that "members" have wanted a change in the rules. It won't be the last.

But you seemed to miss my previous post. I'm endorsing the right of members of a church to change the rules of that church. I'm not for a moment suggesting that anyone has any right to demand that ALL churches change their stance on any given issue. But then, I don't think anyone is trying to do that, it just makes for nice siege mentality rhetoric.

 

[Phinehas2]

Archivist,
You did however say who exactly, so now you know. Whether you do not consider them mainstream is another matter. I will add for the UK there are mainstream groups, Stonewall, National Secular Society. Stonewall want equality throughout

 

[onemorequestion]

Ok so does Archivist agree there are groups like Soulforce wanting to force the church?

Forget about Soulfoirce . . . there are major forces at work in the Catholic Church, the Anglican Union!, and the Lutheran Church to force the acceptance of gay sex on every Christian that makes up the millions and millions and millions of Christians there.

Schism is a sign of attack. Major attack.

 

[Archivist]

The Camel's nose under the tent.
We KNOW what's going on and why.

If you have proof of mainstream efforts to force churches to perform homosexual marriage, please offer it.

As I said, you will always have some on the fringe. There are people who advocate a restoration of the Bonapartes to the throne of France, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Phinehas2]

Lighthorseman

Nonsense.

Well, I believe what Soulforce say, and I believe whta the Bible says. Not sure I agree with much you say.

 

[Phinehas2]

onemorequestion.
Absolutely, there are indeed major forces at work in the church, the NT afterall warns believers that the danger is false teachers who come in. (ie the Jude and 2 Peter 2 passages we have both cited)

 

[Zaac]

That said, I see nothing wrong with members of the Catholic Church encouraging their church to change their stance on homosexuality. If you're a member of a club, its only reasonable to expect people to want to have a say in how its run.

This is why God is God alone. It's HIS CLUB. He sits at the head of the CHURCH ALONE.

And those churches that do not recognize this and want to be their own god will go the way of the seven churches of Revelation.

 

[Archivist]

Forget about Soulfoirce . . . there are major forces at work in the Catholic Church, the Anglican Union!, and the Lutheran Church to force the acceptance of gay sex on every Christian that makes up the millions and millions and millions of Christians there.

Schism is a sign of attack. Major attack.

You were the one who raised the issue of Soulforce, not me.

Again, show me proof of any mainsteam effort to force the church to perform homosexual marriage.

 

[onemorequestion]

Nonsense.

How very tolerant of you.

There is no such thing as tolerance of heresy or false teachings. Unless you think calling someone a weed that the Angels, at the authority of Jesus, are going to gather up and burn is tolerance.

Unless you are a Catholic, you probably don't understand how Catholics don't "join" the club, most of us are born into it.

I'm on their books. I was "born inot it." I didn't want to follow it, so I did the HONEST thing and left.

And This is not the first time that "members" have wanted a change in the rules. It won't be the last.

It will never be marriage that is corrupted by the rabble rousers. Unless all catholics want to deny Jesus and the Apostles on marriage.

But you seemed to miss my previous post. I'm endorsing the right of members of a church to change the rules of that church.

then you are endorsing the bad theology.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that anyone has any right to demand that ALL churches change their stance on any given issue.

That's what the Anglicans and Lutherans thiought.

But then, I don't think anyone is trying to do that, it just makes for nice siege mentality rhetoric.

That Christianity is being attacked by pro-gay forces is not debatable. As you have so effectively proven.

 

[Phinehas2]

I have done
By the way, how do you suppose if we cant seem to agree on anything, we will agree on what is mainstream?

 

[onemorequestion]

You were the one who raised the issue of Soulforce, not me.

Again, show me proof of any mainsteam effort to force the church to perform homosexual marriage.

In Catholic, Anglican and Lutheran Churches. That's what 700, 800, 900 MILLION Christians under attack?

That to me (anyway) would qualify as "mainstream."

 

[Archivist]

I have done
By the way, how do you suppose if we cant seem to agree on anything, we will agree on what is mainstream?

You have offered opinion, not proof. I'm still waiting for evidence.

 

[Archivist]

In Catholic, Anglican and Lutheran Churches. That's what 700, 800, 900 MILLION Christians under attack?

That to me (anyway) would qualify as "mainstream."

I'm Lutheran, and I don't feel that I am "under attack."

You could argue that the government of the United Kingdom is "under attack" because there are a handful of people who support the Stuart pretender to the throne. However, it isn't a mainstream attack.

Do you have any proof that a majority, or even a sizable minority, of those who support homosexual marriage want to force churches to sanction such marriages.

 

[onemorequestion]

You have offered opinion, not proof. I'm still waiting for evidence.

There it is once again P2.

"Where's your proof?"

And when its offered up?

"Where's your evidence?"

And when it is re-shown?

"Where's your proof?"

Ad infinitum, ad nauseuam . . .

Amazing huh?

 

[onemorequestion]

I'm Lutheran, and I don't feel that I am "under attack."

You could argue that the government of the United Kingdom is "under attack" because there are a handful of people who support the Stuart pretender to the throne. However, it isn't a mainstream attack.

Do you have any proof that a majority, or even a sizable minority, of those who support homosexual marriage want to force churches to sanction such marriages.

Um, uh, I, er, um, 900-million, uh, um, uh, 900-million . . . in the Catholic, Anglican and Lutheran denominations under attack, uh, um, er, uh, um.

No, I guess I don't have anything of proof-um, er, uh, uh-yeah.

 

[Archivist]

"Where's your proof?"

And when its offered up?

"Where's your evidence?"

And when it is re-shown?

"Where's your proof?"

Ad infinitum, ad nauseuam . . .

If you have PROOF that a majority or even a sizable minority of those who favor homosexual marriage are trying to force the church to sanction such marriages then offer it.

All I see from you is opinion.

 

[Archivist]

Um, uh, I, er, um, 900-million, uh, um, uh, 900-million . . . in the Catholic, Anglican and Lutheran denominations under attack, uh, um, er, uh, um.

No, I guess I don't have anything of proof-um, er, uh, uh-yeah.

Again, you have offered your opinion that 900-million in these denominations are under attack.

I'd like to see evidence to support your claim.

That isn't an unreasonable request on my part...demanding evidence to support allegations is a standard part of debate.

So, where is your proof?

 

[Archivist]

Here is a compilation of major polls conducted on the issues of homosexual marriage and homosexuals in the military: Civil Rights

Note that the polls dealing with marriage almost all use terms such as legal marriage, civil union, legal rights. I noticed one poll dealing with whether marriage was a religious or a civil function, but not one deals with forcing churches to perform homosexual marriage.

Again, the vast majority of those supporting homosexual marriage do so in terms of civil marriage, not in terms of forcing the church to perform homosexual marriages.

 

[LightHorseman]

This is why God is God alone. It's HIS CLUB. He sits at the head of the CHURCH ALONE.

And those churches that do not recognize this and want to be their own god will go the way of the seven churches of Revelation.

*pat pat* Yes dear. Won't that be nice?