For those who argue for the omnibenevolence of God…

[bling]

No, not a death sentence. It was actually death.

Before the person is put to death, they are under a death sentence which is discipline.

 

[Hammster]

Context only limits meaning when there's a clear contextual reason for such limitation, it doesn't reduce words and phrases to limitations that are unnatural. The way respecter of persons is used in context is as a broad principle that is apparent about God's nature, which is applied by Peter as the basis for including the gentiles. Nothing about the context implies that is the only application of the principle, nor that the full meaning of the phrase is captured in such an application so the most natural way to understand it both in context and without context is a full statement about God not showing partiality or displaying favortism. In other words, God treats people with equity.

Okay. Play free and loose.

 

[Hammster]

Before the person is put to death, they are under a death sentence which is discipline.

People were still killed. It wasn’t discipline.

 

[bling]

People were still killed. It wasn’t discipline.

The death itself is not disciplining the person with their death (never said it was), but having the punishment/discipline of death for a sin, does provide discipline for those who will not die and prior to those who are sentence and will die.

 

[Hammster]

The death itself is not disciplining the person with their death (never said it was)

Yes you did.

“God was going to have to severely discipline them to help those who will live through it, so Jerimiah should not be asking God to not severely discipline them.”

 

[Fervent]

Okay. Play free and loose.

It's not free and loose, it's understanding words how they typically are understood. Context matters, but over contextualizing is as much of an error as under contextualizing. Unless there's a reason for restricting how a phrase or word is understood within the context, it's natural to understand it how it would typically be used. In the case of "no respecter of persons" that's not a limited case of Jews and gentiles, but a general principle about God not showing favortism.

 

[Hammster]

It's not free and loose, it's understanding words how they typically are understood. Context matters, but over contextualizing is as much of an error as under contextualizing. Unless there's a reason for restricting how a phrase or word is understood within the context, it's natural to understand it how it would typically be used. In the case of "no respecter of persons" that's not a limited case of Jews and gentiles, but a general principle about God not showing favortism.

“Typically used” is how Peter wanted Cornelius to understand it.

 

[bling]

Yes you did.

“God was going to have to severely discipline them to help those who will live through it, so Jerimiah should not be asking God to not severely discipline them.”

You are reading into what I said. God was going to send an army to besiege the city for a long time and kill many afterwards inside, but those going through the besieging disciplining should not be prayed for to escape the besieging, since they needed that loving discipline to hopefully change before dying, however long that might be.

 

[Fervent]

“Typically used” is how Peter wanted Cornelius to understand it.

Sorry, I don't practice mind reading. I'll stick with evaluating the semantic range of words and phrases as they are typically employed, rather than assume the intent of the speaker.

 

[Hammster]

You are reading into what I said. God was going to send an army to besiege the city for a long time and kill many afterwards inside, but those going through the besieging disciplining should not be prayed for to escape the besieging, since they needed that loving discipline to hopefully change before dying, however long that might be.

So this omnibenevolent God killed some to show love for others?

 

[Hammster]

Here’s a psalm that Jesus sang.

Remember, O Lord, against the sons of Edom
The day of Jerusalem,
Who said, “Raze it, raze it
To its very foundation.”
O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one,
How blessed will be the one who repays you
With the recompense with which you have repaid us.
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones
Against the rock.
— Psalm 137:7-9

 

[bling]

So this omnibenevolent God killed some to show love for others?

Unless Christ comes again soon, we will all die. "Good" people do not look upon death as a "punishment", but a way home. With death, bad people quit doing bad stuff. God does not "kill" people, but quits providing life on this earth to them, death comes by many different means, do you say: "God killed my father because he had a heart attack?"
Death is a wonderful loving motivator for some living people to help them, turn away from self-reliance to reliance on God's Love/mercy/grace/forgiveness.
God was providing the threat of death, which will be happening to some in Jerusalem soon and does not want Jerimiah to pray for this loving motivator to not happen for the people.

 

[Hammster]

Unless Christ comes again soon, we will all die. "Good" people do not look upon death as a "punishment", but a way home. With death, bad people quit doing bad stuff. God does not "kill" people, but quits providing life on this earth to them, death comes by many different means, do you say: "God killed my father because he had a heart attack?"
Death is a wonderful loving motivator for some living people to help them, turn away from self-reliance to reliance on God's Love/mercy/grace/forgiveness.
God was providing the threat of death, which will be happening to some in Jerusalem soon and does not want Jerimiah to pray for this loving motivator to not happen for the people.

Actually, God kills people. Have you ever even read the OT?

 

[John Mullally]

Then what is it exactly that you are trying to say?

That the idea that God loves everyone equally and tries to save everyone is not found in scripture as a whole.

1 Timothy 2:4 says that God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. In accordance, John 3:14-15 shows Christ provided atonement for sin, but that atonement is received conditionally through faith.

Since Jesus took upon Himself the “sin of the world,” (John 1:29), His atonement is therefore available to all, though is only applied whenever people place their faith in Him, just like His illustration at John 3:14-15 of Numbers 21:6-9 shows. Before a person looked upon the serpent on a standard, was anyone healed? Before a person believes in Jesus, is anyone saved? God Himself established the condition.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.​

Numbers 21:6 Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.​

 

[Hammster]

1 Timothy 2:4 says that God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. In accordance, John 3:14-15 shows Christ provided atonement for sin, but that atonement is received conditionally through faith.

Since Jesus took upon Himself the “sin of the world,” (John 1:29), His atonement is therefore available to all, though is only applied whenever people place their faith in Him, just like His illustration at John 3:14-15 of Numbers 21:6-9 shows. Before a person looked upon the serpent on a standard, was anyone healed? Before a person believes in Jesus, is anyone saved? God Himself established the condition.

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.​

Numbers 21:6 Then the Lord sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, “We sinned when we spoke against the Lord and against you. Pray that the Lord will take the snakes away from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.​

Thanks for bringing those up. It really makes my point in this thread. When we look at scripture as a whole, we can see that these passages can’t be applied universally. For instance, after the walls of Jericho came down

They utterly destroyed everything in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.
— Joshua 6:21

How can you apply 1 Timothy 2:4 to the infants that were killed? You cannot. And how many infants and children were destroyed in the flood? Innumerable. Why was Israel ultimately cursed? Because they didn’t clear the land of pagans, and let many live, and were corrupted just as God said would happen.

So thanks again for bringing up those passages so that I could explain how they aren’t universal.

 

[bling]

Actually, God kills people. Have you ever even read the OT?

Just before those people died was God providing life to them and at their death did God stop providing life to them?

 

[Hammster]

Just before those people died was God providing life to them and at their death did God stop providing life to them?

Actually, in a lot of cases, no. Most cases, really. We really only know about the near east nations. And most of them were wicked and were either wiped out by Israel, or used by God to judge Israel. Only Israel had a covenant with God.

 

[John Mullally]

Thanks for bringing those up. It really makes my point in this thread. When we look at scripture as a whole, we can see that these passages can’t be applied universally. For instance, after the walls of Jericho came down

They utterly destroyed everything in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.
— Joshua 6:21

God is sometimes severe. Paul says, “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God” (Romans 11:22—KJV). But we are to focus on God's goodness and provision (Philippians 4:8-9). It is like when driving a truck , you don't neurotically concentrate on an upcoming obstruction, you focus on the path around the obstruction.

How can you apply 1 Timothy 2:4 to the infants that were killed? You cannot. And how many infants and children were destroyed in the flood? Innumerable. Why was Israel ultimately cursed? Because they didn’t clear the land of pagans, and let many live, and were corrupted just as God said would happen.

So thanks again for bringing up those passages so that I could explain how they aren’t universal.

We live in a fallen world and sometimes people suffer because of other's actions. But I trust God is just and I believe the innocents who perished are with God..

 

[Hammster]

God is sometimes severe. Paul says, “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God” (Romans 11:22—KJV). But we are to focus on God's goodness and provision (Philippians 4:8-9). It is like when driving a truck , you don't neurotically concentrate on an upcoming obstruction, you focus on the path around the obstruction.

We live in a fallen world and sometimes people suffer because of other's actions. But I trust God is just and I believe the innocents who perished are with God..

So if He is severe, He’s not omnibenevolent.

 

[bling]

Actually, in a lot of cases, no. Most cases, really. We really only know about the near east nations. And most of them were wicked and were either wiped out by Israel, or used by God to judge Israel. Only Israel had a covenant with God.

Not sure what you are saying here. Do you feel God does not moment by moment provide life to every individual? Can God continue to provide life to anyone under any situation?
Do you feel God saved only Israelites prior to Christ coming?
Do you feel, just because we do not know much about God's interaction with Gentiles, they were all lost?