Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Colter]

Faith is a belief held in the absence of proof.

Faith is proof of it's own existence, if you had any you would know. Former Atheist who also amused themselves with mental gymnastics attest to the childishness of their former attitude.

 

[FoxyRoxy]

Faith is proof of it's own existence, if you had any you would know. Former Atheist who also amused themselves with mental gymnastics attest to the childishness of their former attitude.

Something can never be proof of itself... If that were true I would have gotten a much better grade in calculus.

 

[Loudmouth]

Faith is proof of it's own existence,

Faith is only proof that humans can hold beliefs they have no evidence for.

 

[Loudmouth]

They hide behind logic, it's the only place to talk to them.

Right . . . we "hide" behind reason, logic, and rationality.

 

[Colter]

Faith is only proof that humans can hold beliefs they have no evidence for.

Faith is evidence, its a gift from God. But to the unborn no amount of evidence can or will be provided.

 

[Loudmouth]

Faith is evidence, its a gift from God.

How do you know it isn't a gift from the FSM?

But to the unborn no amount of evidence can or will be provided.

Then we found the reason that you don't believe in the FSM. You have no faith and are one of the unborn.

 

[Colter]

Right . . . we "hide" behind reason, logic, and rationality.

Yes, and you are hypocrites in that you don't apply those to all that you do, it's only when talking with religious people about religion that you turn into a friggen robot demanding a math path for every move.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes, and you are hypocrites in that you don't apply those to all that you do, it's only when talking with religious people about religion that you turn into a friggen robot demanding a math path for every move.

What things do we not apply it to?

 

[Colter]

How do you know it isn't a gift from the FSM?



Then we found the reason that you don't believe in the FSM. You have no faith and are one of the unborn.

Because you invented the childish false premise of FSM. Do you have faith in FSM?

 

[Colter]

What things do we not apply it to?

Valuing the worth of another's experience, you discount it, mock it, tell us we are imagining things when you have no such testable proof of the validity or lack there of concerning my experience. Your skepticism of my faith is a super material conclusion which is not based in mathematical analysis.

 

[Loudmouth]

Because you invented the childish false premise of FSM.

Yet another similarity shared with God.

Do you have faith in FSM?

I am one of the unborn like you are, remember? You don't have faith in the FSM because he has not gifted it to you, and no amount of evidence will make you believe in the FSM because you are one of the unborn.

 

[Loudmouth]

Valuing the worth of another's experience,

I judge another person's experience by the evidence they can produce of its worth. That doesn't require faith.

you discount it, mock it, tell us we are imagining things when you have no such testable proof of the validity or lack there of concerning my experience.

You can't present any evidence of its validity, so why should I accept it as true?

Your every skepticism of my faith is a super material conclusion which is nit based in mathematical analysis.

That makes zero sense.

 

[Colter]

Something can never be proof of itself... If that were true I would have gotten a much better grade in calculus.

Well then maybe you are on the wrong team.

 

[Colter]

I judge another person's experience by the evidence they can produce of its worth. That doesn't require faith.



You can't present any evidence of its validity, so why should I accept it as true?



That makes zero sense.

You don't have to accept my faith, you just have no right to tell me that my experience is invalid while at the same time claiming that everything you do is based on proof. You have no such proof. That is why you are a hypocrite. You demand proof but then don't require proof for you own assertions about my experience.

 

[Colter]

Yet another similarity shared with God.



I am one of the unborn like you are, remember? You don't have faith in the FSM because he has not gifted it to you, and no amount of evidence will make you believe in the FSM because you are one of the unborn.

I'm going to ask you again, don't avoid answering the question, do you have faith in the FSM God?

 

[Loudmouth]

You don't have to accept my faith, you just have no right to tell me that my experience is invalid while at the same time claiming that everything you do is based on proof.

Then you also have no right to say that the FSM is invalid.

 

[Loudmouth]

I'm going to ask you again, don't avoid answering the question, do you have faith in the FSM God?

Of course not. I am an atheist. I have answered this several times now.

 

[Chesterton]

Good for you. I don't see it that way. Both are supernatural entities that can be claimed to exist, and in that respect: they are the same.

It's confusing when you say "I don't see it that way" and then reiterate how I see it as being how you also see it. Are you agreeing with me or not?

The conclusion would be the same. If it can't be shown to exist, there's no valid reason to assume they exist. And that is, off course, also assuming that there are no other, perhaps more indirect, reasons to point in the direction of their existence.

A good example here would be black holes. Einstein's theories suggested they exist. Einstein actually thought he had to be wrong somewhere, becaue the idea of a black hole didn't sound very appealing to him and there was no observational evidence of such bodies. Nevertheless, his theories seemed to be very accurate, which was quite strong evidence that those black holes just might be real. And several years later, lo and behold, they were discovered - by prediction of Einstein's theories.

So I feel the need to nuance your example a bit.
Having said that, we have nothing even remotely close to such suggested existence for either gods or spaghetti monsters.

The nuancing of the example doesn't help. If someone had created a Flying Spaghetti Hole to mock Einstein's idea, would it have influenced any thinking person?

Now, you're simply misrepresenting the point of the analogy.
The FSM is not (repeat: NOT) a plea for god's non-existence. In fact, I explicitly stated that "they are claimed to exist, but can't be shown to exist".


To not accept the claim "they exist" as a truth statement is not the same as accepting the opposite of the statement.

If you flip a coin, don't show me the results and then assert "it's heads" and I reply "I don't accept your claim as a truth-statement", it does not mean that I accept the claim "it's tails" as a truth statement.

There's a huge difference.

Again, we seem to be in agreement. But maybe I can't tell what you're actually saying. But it raises the question "what is the point of FSM?".

Honestly, if FSM were just a cartoon/idea that someone came up with and a lot of people found funny, I wouldn't give it a second thought, not even enough to talk about it here. But it intrigues me that top atheist spokesmen like Dawkins and Hitchens have actually referred to it in books, lectures and debates as if there were something serious in the idea.

 

[Colter]

Of course not. I am an atheist. I have answered this several times now.

Exactly! That is the answer to this entire charade! You have no faith, your FSG has no gospel, no truth, no sincere followers! The false religion that you and others created is just a joke, my faith in Christ is real, it is something that I am conscious of. THAT is the difference between your insincere comparison and real religion. The spaghetti God people just look like a bunch of buffoons, comparing something that you don't even believe in with something that people do believe in based on a real person, with a real message with real followers that gives real hope to millions of people.

 

[Chesterton]

Weird you'd bring a subject up only to later tell us it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that.