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Florida rejects math books containing CRT

Ana the Ist

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rturner76

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Oh good....YES! magazine. This is who I turn to for answers to all the difficult social issues.
Just food for thought. I think they are pretty spot on.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Just food for thought. I think they are pretty spot on.

I'm not going to get into the whole list. I'll just point out this line in #8....

However, countless students of color have taught me a different lesson: Race is a fundamental part of their identities and deserves to be acknowledged and appreciated.

Does this seem like a problem to you? Do you think people should acknowledge and appreciate your race? Is being black a fundamental part of your identity?
 
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rturner76

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I'm not going to get into the whole list. I'll just point out this line in #8....

However, countless students of color have taught me a different lesson: Race is a fundamental part of their identities and deserves to be acknowledged and appreciated.

Does this seem like a problem to you? Do you think people should acknowledge and appreciate your race? Is being black a fundamental part of your identity?
yes
 
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Ana the Ist

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Well perhaps that's the issue....Black people insisting that race is important.

I'm concerned that this period of "politeness" where white people allow this sort of relentless attack on our history, morals, character, artists, heroes, etc...will end before too long. I worry that things will get ugly then.
 
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rturner76

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Well perhaps that's the issue....Black people insisting that race is important.

I'm concerned that this period of "politeness" where white people allow this sort of relentless attack on our history, morals, character, artists, heroes, etc...will end before too long. I worry that things will get ugly then.
Telling history how it was is not a relentless attack. It's not as important to some whites because they don't have to deal with racism. It matters when you do. Oh wait, I forgot, YOU get to decide what is and isn't racist and who is affected by it so I doubt you'll notice it.

Stuff like this shows how black people are being treated differently so one can't help but be conscious of it.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://mn.gov/mdhr/assets/Investigation into the City of Minneapolis and the Minneapolis Police Department_tcm1061-526417.pdf
 
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Ponderous Curmudgeon

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Well perhaps that's the issue....Black people insisting that race is important.

I'm concerned that this period of "politeness" where white people allow this sort of relentless attack on our history, morals, character, artists, heroes, etc...will end before too long. I worry that things will get ugly then.

I generally don't find you worth responding to but:

Even more important is white people understanding the continued importance of race in society. Your colorblind utopia will not exist till all races stop saying things like "white people allow this sort of relentless attack on our history, morals, character, artists, heroes, etc...will end before too long. I worry that things will get ugly then." If that is how you see history and social justice movements, you are the poster child for the problem.
Spoken as a white person.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Telling history how it was is not a relentless attack.,

We aren't telling history "how it was"...people are simply telling a new myth that appeals to their own racist sentiments. History of black people in the US, if we begin with the slave trade, goes something like this...

Slavery was endemic in Africa by the time European traders set up ports on the western shores. An estimated 2-5 million African tribal people were enslaved by other African tribes. Some of these were traded to Europeans...some were kept as slaves. Though slavery may have varied some from tribe to tribe, we don't have to doubt that the brutality of the practice was every bit as horrific as it was in the western hemisphere. We have, after all, some remaining accounts from the ancestors of African slavers as well as the accounts of those they traded with. The idea of European raiders carrying off hundreds of docile and friendly Africans is almost entirely myth. The average European life expectancy in the interior of Africa was 1 year....as they had no more defense against tropical diseases than the natives they would encounter in the colonies had against European diseases like smallpox. Europeans as a rule stayed out of Africa as much as possible. Slaves became one if the most valuable commodities of Africans because apart from some basic staples, they had little else of any value to either the Europeans or Arabs they traded with. This of course, caused a period of increased enslavement of weaker African tribes by stronger African tribes that would last over a century, as the strong enslaved the weak and then sold them for profit.

This is where the story picks up for most Americans. This is the point we start at because frankly, it's probably a little degrading to imagine your ancestors were basically the weak group of Africans who got enslaved by other African tribes. Nevertheless, that's "how it was".

We typically go onto talk about the plantations, conditions of slavery, people sold as property, underground railroads, Fredrick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, etc.

Then we magically skip to the Civil War as if there's not much else to say...but that's not true. The schism that erupted into the Civil War began at the very beginning of the nation's founding. Abolitionist movements began in the white Christian community (almost exclusively, imagine that, at one point only white people fought for the freedom of black people) as soon as slavery reached colonial shores. The movement grew and by the time of the nation's founding, many wanted slavery outlawed entirely. The discussion of this possibility was argued over by the founders and they ultimately decided that the US would lose the Southern colonies if it tried to end slavery, and thereby weaken the union they sought.

The effects of this argument are visible in the 3/5ths compromise whereby the freedom loving anti-slavery northerners sought to reduce the political influence of the south by regarding slaves as 3/5ths a person in matters of congressional representation. The slavery loving southerners, wanted slaves to be counted as whole people, which of course, later contradicted their racial beliefs which had not only not existed....they had not yet spread nor been popularized by academia. It would be more accurate at this time to say the slaves were seen as people, property, but human. The subhuman characterizations that were only being proposed would popularize later.

What else can be said?? Without going into the practice of slavery amongst the natives of North America....Black slave owners would become a more common sight than the average American knows. By the decade before the Civil War, many slave owning states had thousands of black slavers enslaving black slaves in many times their own number. Their treatment was no less harsh. Even newer slave states had hundreds of black slavers.

Why is this important? Because it should change your view of society back then. If you thought white people were bad or uniquely immoral....You're just racist. Slavery was normal. Why leave it out? To spare the feelings of black people today. I don't think we should....let's tell it how it was.




Stuff like this shows how black people are being treated differently so one can't help but be conscious of it.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://mn.gov/mdhr/assets/Investigation into the City of Minneapolis and the Minneapolis Police Department_tcm1061-526417.pdf

Someone made a thread, I commented.
 
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rturner76

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We aren't telling history "how it was"...people are simply telling a new myth that appeals to their own racist sentiments. History of black people in the US, if we begin with the slave trade, goes something like this...

Slavery was endemic in Africa by the time European traders set up ports on the western shores. An estimated 2-5 million African tribal people were enslaved by other African tribes. Some of these were traded to Europeans...some were kept as slaves. Though slavery may have varied some from tribe to tribe, we don't have to doubt that the brutality of the practice was every bit as horrific as it was in the western hemisphere. We have, after all, some remaining accounts from the ancestors of African slavers as well as the accounts of those they traded with. The idea of European raiders carrying off hundreds of docile and friendly Africans is almost entirely myth. The average European life expectancy in the interior of Africa was 1 year....as they had no more defense against tropical diseases than the natives they would encounter in the colonies had against European diseases like smallpox. Europeans as a rule stayed out of Africa as much as possible. Slaves became one if the most valuable commodities of Africans because apart from some basic staples, they had little else of any value to either the Europeans or Arabs they traded with. This of course, caused a period of increased enslavement of weaker African tribes by stronger African tribes that would last over a century, as the strong enslaved the weak and then sold them for profit.

This is where the story picks up for most Americans. This is the point we start at because frankly, it's probably a little degrading to imagine your ancestors were basically the weak group of Africans who got enslaved by other African tribes. Nevertheless, that's "how it was".

We typically go onto talk about the plantations, conditions of slavery, people sold as property, underground railroads, Fredrick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, etc.

Then we magically skip to the Civil War as if there's not much else to say...but that's not true. The schism that erupted into the Civil War began at the very beginning of the nation's founding. Abolitionist movements began in the white Christian community (almost exclusively, imagine that, at one point only white people fought for the freedom of black people) as soon as slavery reached colonial shores. The movement grew and by the time of the nation's founding, many wanted slavery outlawed entirely. The discussion of this possibility was argued over by the founders and they ultimately decided that the US would lose the Southern colonies if it tried to end slavery, and thereby weaken the union they sought.

The effects of this argument are visible in the 3/5ths compromise whereby the freedom loving anti-slavery northerners sought to reduce the political influence of the south by regarding slaves as 3/5ths a person in matters of congressional representation. The slavery loving southerners, wanted slaves to be counted as whole people, which of course, later contradicted their racial beliefs which had not only not existed....they had not yet spread nor been popularized by academia. It would be more accurate at this time to say the slaves were seen as people, property, but human. The subhuman characterizations that were only being proposed would popularize later.

What else can be said?? Without going into the practice of slavery amongst the natives of North America....Black slave owners would become a more common sight than the average American knows. By the decade before the Civil War, many slave owning states had thousands of black slavers enslaving black slaves in many times their own number. Their treatment was no less harsh. Even newer slave states had hundreds of black slavers.

Why is this important? Because it should change your view of society back then. If you thought white people were bad or uniquely immoral....You're just racist. Slavery was normal. Why leave it out? To spare the feelings of black people today. I don't think we should....let's tell it how it was.






Someone made a thread, I commented.
African slavery was mostly POWs European, and American slavery was based solely on race that's why it was racist.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I generally don't find you worth responding to but:

Even more important is white people understanding the continued importance of race in society.

Why?

If you genuinely want to end racism, I don't see how that's possible by teaching people to be racist. How is a hyper focus on racial identity going to end racism?

Your colorblind utopia will not exist till all races stop

...Seeing race as important parts of their identity.

That's really the only way this works.

saying things like "white people allow this sort of relentless attack on our history, morals, character, artists, heroes, etc...will end before too long. I worry that things will get ugly."

And what's wrong with saying that?

I was right when I said years ago that I was worried this would lead to institutional discrimination and I was correct.


that is how you see history and social justice movements, you are the poster child for the problem.

That's how this "social justice movement" sees white people.

To paraphrase Robin DiAngelo....there's no good aspect of whiteness and every white person is guilty and needs to atone for it, for the rest of their lives.

I'm sorry, but as far as social sentiments go....that one has a short expiration date.

Spoken as a white person.

I can't imagine why you would include this. Are you telling me that you're white and therefore I should consider your words because I'm white and blah blah blah I only listen to white people?

Or are you saying that my words are coming from me, as a white person, and therefore somehow should be considered less because you're racist and you devalue the views and opinions of white people?

It looks like it's one of the two.
 
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Ana the Ist

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African slavery was mostly POWs European, and American slavery was based solely on race that's why it was racist.

See? You don't even know history.

How are you going to tell it how it was?
 
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Ana the Ist

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African slavery was mostly POWs European, and American slavery was based solely on race that's why it was racist.

What you need to picture are hundreds of slaves, chained ankle to ankle, forced to march hundreds of miles to the coast where they were sold for profit....because they were enslaved, for profit.

In some estimates these marches killed more slaves than the boats that carried them to the colonies.

If you can't accept this, perhaps it's got something to do with your racial identity being sooooooo important to you.
 
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rturner76

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What you need to picture are hundreds of slaves, chained ankle to ankle, forced to march hundreds of miles to the coast where they were sold for profit....because they were enslaved, for profit.

In some estimates these marches killed more slaves than the boats that carried them to the colonies.

If you can't accept this, perhaps it's got something to do with your racial identity being sooooooo important to you.
I guess white people were innocent of any wrongdoing. Is anything other than that CRT to you?

Plus Africans didn't keep a lot of written history so I assume your history is HIS-STORY not mine.
 
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rturner76

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See? You don't even know history.

How are you going to tell it how it was?
I know American history with the white man enslaving only black people. They tackled and shackled plenty of Africans. They raped the women murdered babies and did medical experiments on slaves. Then they Jim Crowed the slaves that were finally set free. Now they just tell us what is racism and when it's okay to be offended by being treated differently.
 
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Ana the Ist

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European, and American slavery was based solely on race that's why it was racist.

Nope. Not even close. No early arguments for slavery were almost entirely economic. It was characterized as a "regrettably immoral economic necessity." It wasn't until around 1810 or so when concepts of race had become so widespread that African slaves were seen as less human in certain ways. You can see it in the arguments for slavery, it's "no longer regrettable or immoral because the black race needed civilizing".

Another thing we never talk about is whether or not it was ever an economic necessity. Hundreds of thousands of poor white southerners were unable to find any work due to slavery, lack of literacy, and lack of trade skills. The culture that developed between them has had almost as many names as black culture over time.
 
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rturner76

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Nope. Not even close. No early arguments for slavery were almost entirely economic. It was characterized as a "regrettably immoral economic necessity." It wasn't until around 1810 or so when concepts of race had become so widespread that African slaves were seen as less human in certain ways. You can see it in the arguments for slavery, it's "no longer regrettable or immoral because the black race needed civilizing".

Another thing we never talk about is whether or not it was ever an economic necessity. Hundreds of thousands of poor white southerners were unable to find any work due to slavery, lack of literacy, and lack of trade skills. The culture that developed between them has had almost as many names as black culture over time.
Oh those poor white people, slaves had it soooo good. WHy didn't they enslave the poor white people? Because they were white.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Oh those poor white people, slaves had it soooo good. WHy didn't they enslave the poor white people? Because they were white.

Well they couldn't because they were free. That's why you had to pay them. Which made slaves cheaper in the long run.

I'm not telling that part of history to play the victim nor do I wish to illicit sympathy for them....it's just what happened, it impoverished thousands of white people and we don't talk about it.
 
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rturner76

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Non-Christians. Europeans had already outlawed slavery amongst Christian nations...because Christianity. When an abundance of slaves for sale was discovered on the coast of Africa by Portuguese sailors, they sought permission from the Pope since they weren't Christian, and permission was granted.
RIght, that's when they based slavery on race.
Tackled and shackled. I'm sure you've seen Roots....I did too. You should see what the writer says of its historical accuracy. He openly admits to wanting to tell a myth.
Keep feeding me that white-washed His-Story.
They still are...in Africa....one of the few places where slave markets selling Africans still exists.
Is it based on race? No. Still wrong but it's not based on race like American slavery was.
[STAFF EDITED - DELETED QUOTE]

I'm not racist, I don't discriminate against any race. I do recognize what ehite people have done and are doing to minorities in the United States.
 
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rturner76

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Well they couldn't because they were free. That's why you had to pay them. Which made slaves cheaper in the long run.

I'm not telling that part of history to play the victim nor do I wish to illicit sympathy for them....it's just what happened, it impoverished thousands of white people and we don't talk about it.
Boo0hoo. THey had the FREEDOM to move. Blacks had no freedom in the south..
 
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Ponderous Curmudgeon

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So because you can find a Robin D'angelo to quote
Why?

If you genuinely want to end racism, I don't see how that's possible by teaching people to be racist. How is a hyper focus on racial identity going to end racism?



...Seeing race as important parts of their identity.

That's really the only way this works.



And what's wrong with saying that?

I was right when I said years ago that I was worried this would lead to institutional discrimination and I was correct.




That's how this "social justice movement" sees white people.

To paraphrase Robin DiAngelo....there's no good aspect of whiteness and every white person is guilty and needs to atone for it, for the rest of their lives.

I'm sorry, but as far as social sentiments go....that one has a short expiration date.



I can't imagine why you would include this. Are you telling me that you're white and therefore I should consider your words because I'm white and blah blah blah I only listen to white people?

Or are you saying that my words are coming from me, as a white person, and therefore somehow should be considered less because you're racist and you devalue the views and opinions of white people?

It looks like it's one of the two.
So because you can find a Robin D'angelo to quote, you consider your attitude to be fine. Tu Quoque is not a means to solve problems.

Beyond that NWRT
 
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