Florida rejects math books containing CRT

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

I'd be astonished if your average adult would get anywhere near a good pass mark.

I'd be ok with all the maths. But bear in mind there were no calculators, so you'd have to remember your long multiplication and long division and how to calculate a square root (it took me a good ten minutes to do the number of steps in a given distance the 'old way' - and about 10 seconds to do it on a calculator). But...I'll admit I'd struggle with some of the history and civil government questions.

No square root necessary, it was a 3,4,5 right triangle, but you also learned the general solution I see.

 

[Skye1300]

I'm not going to get into the whole list. I'll just point out this line in #8....

However, countless students of color have taught me a different lesson: Race is a fundamental part of their identities and deserves to be acknowledged and appreciated.

Does this seem like a problem to you? Do you think people should acknowledge and appreciate your race? Is being black a fundamental part of your identity?

What IS "race"? Race is nothing but a cultural man made concept invented to make slave owners feel better about owning slaves. The myth of race only serves to divide people. I think all ideas of the myth of race need to be abolished. Hanging on to such a primitive over simplified classification of people serves no one any good except the ones who want to keep people divided. Divide and conquer. It's time all of society moved on from this.

 

[Bradskii]

What IS "race"? Race is nothing but a cultural man made concept invented to make slave owners feel better about owning slaves. The myth of race only serves to divide people. I think all ideas of the myth of race need to be abolished. Hanging on to such a primitive over simplified classification of people serves no one any good except the ones who want to keep people divided. Divide and conquer. It's time all of society moved on from this.

I try to avoid the term, although it's sometimes not possible. 'Ethnic background' might be better. Or ''ethnic culture' perhaps?

 

[Skye1300]

African slavery was mostly POWs European, and American slavery was based solely on race that's why it was racist.

Yes, slavery has been around since Jesus' day but the myth of the concept of "race" was invented to justify people being BORN into slavery based on a mythical race. How else can you justify enslaving innocent children from birth unless you invent some fake category that they supposedly belong to that makes them different/inferior? How could you justify enslaving your own biological newborn child who's mom was enslaved? So "race" served that purpose. Before then slaves were CAPTURED, they were not BORN. They went from being ENSLAVED, to being slaves as if that was what they were born to be. Slaves became like their genetic makeup and "black" became synonymous with slave. This is why the concept of race needs to be abolished. Just acknowledging the false category is keeping the idea of slave alive. Black is synonymous with slave and people don't think of blacks as just people, they think of them as slaves who have been granted freedom to live like regular people. When people see blacks, they unconsciously see slaves who have been set free, even though none today have ever been enslaved. Race is the problem. Stop calling people "black" and you break that mental connection to slaves and slavery. Stop calling people "white" and you break that unconscious mental connection to superior or better. We are all just Americans now. The history of slavery should be about one group of people who went and enslaved another group of people. Not about "blacks" and "whites".

 

[Skye1300]

The guy who wrote Roots...arguably the definition of black identity mythos plagiarized a white man. He lifted entire sections from a better, white author. He turned it into a fake autobiography.

Kunta Kinte...or something very close, is a sort of warning shout of an African tribe in Gambia (if I remember correctly). The rest of the story is just as fake...apparently, none of the author's ancestors were enslaved on any plantation. He sold black America a sweet lie....a story of innate black goodness and righteous struggle. In reality....your ancestors got sold off by their black neighbors....probably for muskets and gunpowder. The author would later admit to not only stealing parts of his work....but making up the entire myth. He claimed to want to sell black people a story that made them proud. It wasn't Europeans who stole your culture, it was the African tribes that enslaved your ancestors for profit. Your ancestors had been stripped of their culture and personhood long before they ever reached the sea.

What!? Where did you hear that? A conspiracy theorist? LOL

 

[Skye1300]

Can You Pass This 8th Grade Exam from 1912? - Heads Up by Scout Life

Very interesting! I just barely passed! Hahaha! If it wasn't multiple choice, I would have been done.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What!? Where did you hear that? A conspiracy theorist? LOL

What part?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, slavery has been around since Jesus' day but the myth of the concept of "race" was invented to justify people being BORN into slavery based on a mythical race.

No it wasn't.

How else can you justify enslaving innocent children from birth unless you invent some fake category that they supposedly belong to that makes them different/inferior?

Same way you justify the Spanish Inquisition. They weren't Christian.

How could you justify enslaving your own biological newborn child who's mom was enslaved? So "race" served that purpose. Before then slaves were CAPTURED, they were not BORN. They went from being ENSLAVED, to being slaves as if that was what they were born to be. Slaves became like their genetic makeup and "black" became synonymous with slave. This is why the concept of race needs to be abolished. Just acknowledging the false category is keeping the idea of slave alive. Black is synonymous with slave and people don't think of blacks as just people, they think of them as slaves who have been granted freedom to live like regular people. When people see blacks, they unconsciously see slaves who have been set free, even though none today have ever been enslaved. Race is the problem. Stop calling people "black" and you break that mental connection to slaves and slavery. Stop calling people "white" and you break that unconscious mental connection to superior or better. We are all just Americans now. The history of slavery should be about one group of people who went and enslaved another group of people. Not about "blacks" and "whites".

There's a lot to unpack there.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What IS "race"? Race is nothing but a cultural man made concept invented to make slave owners feel better about owning slaves.

Do you have no idea where the concept of race came from?

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, slavery has been around since Jesus' day but the myth of the concept of "race" was invented to justify people being BORN into slavery based on a mythical race. How else can you justify enslaving innocent children from birth unless you invent some fake category that they supposedly belong to that makes them different/inferior? How could you justify enslaving your own biological newborn child who's mom was enslaved?

Ancient philosophers like Aristotle did that without the concept of race. They wrote that a class of people were fated by the gods to be slaves.

So "race" served that purpose. Before then slaves were CAPTURED, they were not BORN. They went from being ENSLAVED, to being slaves as if that was what they were born to be. Slaves became like their genetic makeup and "black" became synonymous with slave. This is why the concept of race needs to be abolished. Just acknowledging the false category is keeping the idea of slave alive. Black is synonymous with slave and people don't think of blacks as just people, they think of them as slaves who have been granted freedom to live like regular people. When people see blacks, they unconsciously see slaves who have been set free, even though none today have ever been enslaved. Race is the problem. Stop calling people "black" and you break that mental connection to slaves and slavery. Stop calling people "white" and you break that unconscious mental connection to superior or better. We are all just Americans now. The history of slavery should be about one group of people who went and enslaved another group of people. Not about "blacks" and "whites".

People came up with plenty of rationales for bigotry, there has always been "us" and "them," and any phenotype that was consistent with an element of culture was always a factor.

Pliny the Elder's essays "Natural History" would be comical, if people of his day didn't accept his wildly absurd speculations about the physical attributes of Sub-Saharan Africans as true: "...others again have their mouths grown shut and are without nostrils, breath and eat through a single passage, taking their sustenance which is liquid only through a hollow oak stalk...."

You might want to read "De Architectura, Book VI," written to Caesar by Marcus Vitruvius Pollio right around the time of Christ. He attempts to use climate at various latitudes to explain physical appearances and character traits of various peoples, with Romans, of course, being at just the right latitude to create just the right appearance and character. He's a hoot...except that emperors of Rome ruled by such nonsense.

...though, however, the southern nations are quick in understanding, and sagacious in council, yet in point of valour they are inferior, for the sun absorbs their animal spirits. Those, on the contrary, who are natives of cold climates are more courageous in war, and fearlessly attack their enemies, though, rushing on without consideration or judgment, their attacks are repulsed and their designs frustrated.

Since, then, nature herself has provided throughout the world, that all nations should differ according to the variation of the climate, she has also been pleased that in the middle of the earth, and of all nations, the Roman people should be seated.

On this account the people of Italy excel in both qualities, strength of body and vigour of mind. For as the planet Jupiter moves through a temperate region between the fiery Mars and icy Saturn, so Italy enjoys a temperate and unequalled climate between the north on one side, and the south on the other.

Hence it is, that by stratagem she is enabled to repress the attacks of the barbarians, and by her strength to overcome the subtilty of southern nations. Divine providence has so ordered it that the metropolis of the Roman people is placed in an excellent and temperate climate, whereby they have become the masters of the world.

LacusCurtius • Vitruvius on Architecture — Book VI (uchicago.edu)

 

[KCfromNC]

I'd be astonished if your average adult would get anywhere near a good pass mark.

I'd be ok with all the maths. But bear in mind there were no calculators, so you'd have to remember your long multiplication and long division and how to calculate a square root (it took me a good ten minutes to do the number of steps in a given distance the 'old way' - and about 10 seconds to do it on a calculator). But...I'll admit I'd struggle with some of the history and civil government questions.

I think all that means is that stuff students are (were?) forced to memorize don't have much use outside of trivia competitions. It's not a particularly good way to judge educational achievement.

 

[Fantine]

When my youngest took the ACT's calculators were allowed, and she attended an ACT workshop where they showed students how to install formulae into their calculators to make the process easier.

I found this surprising but figured if it wasn't prohibited by the ACT Board it was fair for her to use it. Math was not her strong point.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

When my youngest took the ACT's calculators were allowed, and she attended an ACT workshop where they showed students how to install formulae into their calculators to make the process easier.

I found this surprising but figured if it wasn't prohibited by the ACT Board it was fair for her to use it. Math was not her strong point.

Mixed bag from personal and parental experience. Basic calculators are not allowed till one has learned the basic calculator functions, this at least levels the field for people who understand the concepts but don't have the fast calculator skills. knowing every change difference by rote is not really a useful skill today, but knowing how to actually calculate it however slow you might be is. As for ACTs etc. one of the skills they are testing is knowing how to use the calculator/computer to solve problems that would otherwise take hours as well as you have to know what to input into the calculator.
A calculator is no more useful than a slide rule if you don't know how to use it. I am of an age where have used both and I can tell you that the function may be in there, but if you don't understand it and know how to use it, you won't pass the test.

And for the old nerds out there, I had RPN calculators and hate the AOS ones. anyone who has learned how to use RPN knows why.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ancient philosophers like Aristotle did that without the concept of race. They wrote that a class of people were fated by the gods to be slaves.



People came up with plenty of rationales for bigotry, there has always been "us" and "them," and any phenotype that was consistent with an element of culture was always a factor.

Pliny the Elder's essays "Natural History" would be comical, if people of his day didn't accept his wildly absurd speculations about the physical attributes of Sub-Saharan Africans as true: "...others again have their mouths grown shut and are without nostrils, breath and eat through a single passage, taking their sustenance which is liquid only through a hollow oak stalk...."

You might want to read "De Architectura, Book VI," written to Caesar by Marcus Vitruvius Pollio right around the time of Christ. He attempts to use climate at various latitudes to explain physical appearances and character traits of various peoples,

Not a bad guess.

with Romans, of course, being at just the right latitude to create just the right appearance and character. He's a hoot...except that emperors of Rome ruled by such nonsense.



LacusCurtius • Vitruvius on Architecture — Book VI (uchicago.edu)

There's a few exceptions. The Chinese were so impressive for thousands of years that when they were conquered (Manchurians, Mongols, and one other I think?) their conquerors actually adopted the culture of the population they conquered. One has to imagine the difference being dramatic and obvious....they were doing "civilization" better than their conquerors.

Arguably, Japan did the same thing to avoid being conquered....leaping from a complex sort of martial ruling feudalism to a very modern pre-industrial, then industrial, society.

It's not an easy thing to do...to admit the out group is more successful because of the way they do things. It's even harder to convince each other to change....and adopt out group practices. It's far fewer examples than the opposite.

I think all that means is that stuff students are (were?) forced to memorize don't have much use outside of trivia competitions. It's not a particularly good way to judge educational achievement.

Educational achievement? No.

If you want to have a job making lots of money and becoming wealthy, math is practically a necessity.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Mixed bag from personal and parental experience. Basic calculators are not allowed till one has learned the basic calculator functions, this at least levels the field for people who understand the concepts but don't have the fast calculator skills. knowing every change difference by rote is not really a useful skill today, but knowing how to actually calculate it however slow you might be is. As for ACTs etc. one of the skills they are testing is knowing how to use the calculator/computer to solve problems that would otherwise take hours as well as you have to know what to input into the calculator.
A calculator is no more useful than a slide rule if you don't know how to use it. I am of an age where have used both and I can tell you that the function may be in there, but if you don't understand it and know how to use it, you won't pass the test.

And for the old nerds out there, I had RPN calculators and hate the AOS ones. anyone who has learned how to use RPN knows why.

Never used a calculator in school. It was allowed, I just didn't. I would occasionally borrow a kid's expensive fancy Texas Instrument calculator to play Tetris on during class. Looking back, I might have been bullying him a bit.

 

[RDKirk]

I think all that means is that stuff students are (were?) forced to memorize don't have much use outside of trivia competitions. It's not a particularly good way to judge educational achievement.

People say that who don't like memorizing facts, but interestingly, those who can't or won't memorize anything are not proven as a group to have any greater level of achievement. But the ability to gain and retain vast amounts of information seems to be extremely common among those who have attained high educational achievement.

 

[RDKirk]

Mixed bag from personal and parental experience. Basic calculators are not allowed till one has learned the basic calculator functions, this at least levels the field for people who understand the concepts but don't have the fast calculator skills. knowing every change difference by rote is not really a useful skill today, but knowing how to actually calculate it however slow you might be is. As for ACTs etc. one of the skills they are testing is knowing how to use the calculator/computer to solve problems that would otherwise take hours as well as you have to know what to input into the calculator.
A calculator is no more useful than a slide rule if you don't know how to use it. I am of an age where have used both and I can tell you that the function may be in there, but if you don't understand it and know how to use it, you won't pass the test.

And for the old nerds out there, I had RPN calculators and hate the AOS ones. anyone who has learned how to use RPN knows why.

I was a freshman in college when the switch from the engineering students wearing slide rules on their belts to wearing TI calculators on their belts began.

I first got a slide rule in 1965, having read about the protagonist of Robert A. Heinlein's young adult novel "Have Space Suit--Will Travel" using one. I begged my mother to buy me one, then found a book by Isaac Asimov in how to use it.

I used a slide rule right up to the 80s. I've had a computer on my desk, however, continuously since 1974. At the moment, I have both a computer and a slide rule on my desk.

My early Air Force testing required slide rules. When they finally shifted to calculators as an option, it was clear that the questions had been rewritten to favor calculators.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

I was a freshman in college when the switch from the engineering students wearing slide rules on their belts to wearing TI calculators on their belts began.

I first got a slide rule in 1965, having read about the protagonist of Robert A. Heinlein's young adult novel "Have Space Suit--Will Travel" using one. I begged my mother to buy me one, then found a book by Isaac Asimov in how to use it.

I used a slide rule right up to the 80s. I've had a computer on my desk, however, continuously since 1974. At the moment, I have both a computer and a slide rule on my desk.

My early Air Force testing required slide rules. When they finally shifted to calculators as an option, it was clear that the questions had been rewritten to favor calculators.

Which makes me a little bit younger than you since my girlfriend at the time's father bought me an HP 32 that only the richest kids had. I wish I still had my fathers K+E but it has been lost over the years. I did however find a circular one recently that I don't remember ever using.

Actually, a nerd edit, TI calculators where cheesy when I got my HP, you may be younger than I thought.

 

[KCfromNC]

Educational achievement? No.

If you want to have a job making lots of money and becoming wealthy, math is practically a necessity.

My comment was replying to the "history and civil government questions" mention in the post I was replying to. Not a lot of need for regurgitating geography trivia from a century ago in modern high paying jobs.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So you have no idea what the conversation is about and are probably to young to even discuss the changes in math instruction over the years.

Sure...You're a couple of grumpy old men reminiscing about the "good old days".

If you can't add basic fractions what makes you think you'd be "ok with all the maths" as you put it?