Florida ‘effectively’ bans Advanced Placement Psychology course due to curriculum's discussion of gender and sexual orientation

rjs330

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Employment is still voluntary, so there's no real force involved, except that which you agree to follow. Further, if one has an objection to something new they're required to do for work, they can always complain to HR, or take legal action if necessary. So there are options.
It's happening because people are losing their livelihood over it. One shouldn't have to sue or fight HR over this. It's a shame.
I have no idea what they were hired for, so I can't comment.
Right, cause I'm sure there are a lot of jobs that part of the job description says must be able to lie. Or there are a lot of places that are open with their participants and tell them they must be subject to indecent exposure in order to participate.
So protest the law. You have that right, just like everyone else. But, I have a feeling there may be a detail or two missing from your description above, so I'll reserve further comment until more information is available.
I was just letting you know once again that you were wrong to claim there were no laws.
What minority rights are you referring to? Last I heard, African Americans have the same rights of equal protection under the law as everyone else, regardless of skin color.

The right to claim that that I'm being discriminated against because I'm black. Should I be allowed to say my race is black on all legal paperwork? My driver license? Those sorts of things. Why or why not?
You can identify as whatever you want, but your ethnicity and skin color are a different matter. Again, identity and biology aren't the same thing.
You keep missing the issue here. Yes you can identify in your personal life however you want. No one has denied that. The issue is your biology determines if you are correct in that identification. And whether or not I should be required by my job, the government, agencies etc to treat you as the opposite sex, race or whatever. And don't try and tell the kids that it's a legitimate identity and it's okay to medicalize that. Would it be okay that schools tell your kids that it's perfectly okay to identify as a cat and medicalize yourself to become a cat? Would it be okay to teach kids it perfectly legit to identify as an American Indian and put that on all their legal paperwork, and receive the American Indian benefits? Kids should then color their blonde hair black and get a dark tan. It's would be perfectly fine to do that correct?
I did before, you didn't like it. I'd post the same thing again, but I suspect your response would be the same.

I have no idea what answer you're looking for, so maybe you should provide it yourself. Might save you some time.
No you didn't. I asked you to define woman. You said a woman was an adult female. So what is a female? I'm looking for you to answer it and you are not.

I've found it very typical that the left can't answer that question. Obfuscation is what you do. Why is that. It's a very simple question. Why the obfuscation?
simply acknowledge that some people identify as a different gender than their genitalia. It's not my business to say they're wrong. I wouldn't even know how to make that claim, since I have no way of knowing whether or not their identity is what they claim.
Yet somehow you would know whether or not my identity of being African American is legitimate or not. You would know if my identity of being a redtail hawke was legit or not. Or are you making a claim that you would have no way of knowing?
I'm not a lawmaker, so my impact on the legal situation is pretty severely limited.

At best, if someone says to me, "I identify as a woman," I don't check their genitalia or say they're wrong, somehow. I generally say "Okay," and go about my life.

-- A2SG, if that simple acknowledgment is support and approval to you, that seems a pretty low bar to me. Flat on the ground, so far as I can tell....
But you vote for lawmakers, or do you not vote? Is that how you go through life? Feeling you have no impact on anything going on around you?

Do you somehow feel you would need to check everyone's genitalia? I don't.

Simple acknowledgement? Really?

Do you support or approve if men competing against women in women's sports?

Do you approve of or support men showering with women?

Do you approve of or support schools transitioning children without parental knowledge?

Do you support or approve of California's law removing parental rights from parents who's children come to California for medical transitioning?

These are simple yes or no questions. But I'm guessing you are going to continue to obfuscate.
 
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rjs330

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Ethnicity and biological genotype aren't synonymous. Serbs and Croats genetically are more or less the same, but ethnically, they are very different: Serbia is Orthodox and writes their language in Cyrillic; Croatia is Catholic and writes in Latin, and both groups have different customs as a result. Likewise, Pakistanis and northern Indians are more or less the same genetically, have the same languages in many cases (they even watch the same movies sometimes), but they don't see themselves as the same people or ethnicity due to religious differences.
Is there a point to this? What does this have to do with accepting that it's perfectly fine and legit for men to identify as women and that everyone should accept that they are because they said so.
 
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FireDragon76

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Is there a point to this? What does this have to do with accepting that it's perfectly fine and legit for men to identify as women and that everyone should accept that they are because they said so.

It was implied that ethnicity is the same as biology, and I just gave examples where that isn't the case.
 
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A2SG

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It's happening because people are losing their livelihood over it. One shouldn't have to sue or fight HR over this. It's a shame.
That may be, but if you want to get paid for doing a job, you kind of have to do that job. If you don't like it, you have options...up to, and including, finding other employment.

Right, cause I'm sure there are a lot of jobs that part of the job description says must be able to lie. Or there are a lot of places that are open with their participants and tell them they must be subject to indecent exposure in order to participate.
I'm not an employment counselor, it's none any of my business what someone is hired to do.

I was just letting you know once again that you were wrong to claim there were no laws.
So you claim, but I've yet to see exactly what this law says. Care to provide specifics? I don't recall seeing any specific laws cited in your sources, so I'd appreciate more information. Otherwise, I can't comment.

The right to claim that that I'm being discriminated against because I'm black.
You can claim that now, if you want to. I don't know how seriously anyone will take you, though.

Should I be allowed to say my race is black on all legal paperwork?
That would depend on how seriously perjury is taken with whoever issued those forms. You may run that risk unless you can prove, objectively, that you are black, should they require it. After all, they're not asking you what race you identify as, are they?

My driver license? Those sorts of things. Why or why not?
If they ask what race you identify as, you can answer that; but if they ask what race you are, you would need to answer that truthfully.

Remember how I keep saying that identity and biology aren't the same thing? This would be an example of one of their differences.

You keep missing the issue here. Yes you can identify in your personal life however you want. No one has denied that. The issue is your biology determines if you are correct in that identification.
And you keep missing the fact that identity and biology aren't the same thing.

And whether or not I should be required by my job, the government, agencies etc to treat you as the opposite sex, race or whatever.
The government doesn't require you do that...but I can't speak for your employer. That'd be between you and them.

And don't try and tell the kids that it's a legitimate identity and it's okay to medicalize that.
No one has asked me, or needs my permission.

Would it be okay that schools tell your kids that it's perfectly okay to identify as a cat and medicalize yourself to become a cat?
I don't know of any school district that assumes the role of health care proxy for its students.

Would it be okay to teach kids it perfectly legit to identify as an American Indian and put that on all their legal paperwork, and receive the American Indian benefits?
They can try, but the only American Indian benefits I'm aware of are issued through the specific tribes involved, and they usually require more than just identifying as a member of their tribe before they grant them.

Kids should then color their blonde hair black and get a dark tan. It's would be perfectly fine to do that correct?
Is there some reason why they can't dye their hair and sit in the sun now?

No you didn't. I asked you to define woman. You said a woman was an adult female.
No, that was not my answer. I could requote myself here, but I prefer to leave you to find out what I actually said instead. Otherwise, how would you learn?

So what is a female? I'm looking for you to answer it and you are not.
I did. You didn't like it then, and you didn't bother to read my previous post to remind yourself of what I said, so obviously you're not really interested in how I'm defining it. Why don't you define it, make whatever point you're trying to make, and see where that gets us.

But, just for fun, let me anticipate that conversation and offer the reply I'll most likely have to it: Identity and biology aren't the same thing.

I've found it very typical that the left can't answer that question.
I don't represent "the left", I only speak for myself.

Obfuscation is what you do.
I've only ever tried to be as clear as possible.

Why is that. It's a very simple question. Why the obfuscation?
I'm not obfuscating. I answered the question to the best of my ability, as clearly as possible.

Yet somehow you would know whether or not my identity of being African American is legitimate or not.
I have never, not at any time EVER said your identity, or anyone's identity wasn't legitimate. And this fact will be definitively confirmed in your next post when you fail to quote me saying anything even remotely close to that.

I have no way of knowing whether or not your identity is legitimate. Only you can know that.

You would know if my identity of being a redtail hawke was legit or not. Or are you making a claim that you would have no way of knowing?
I have no way of knowing what species you identify as, no.

But you vote for lawmakers, or do you not vote? Is that how you go through life? Feeling you have no impact on anything going on around you?
Sure, I vote. But they don't call and ask for my advice, so my impact on how they do their jobs is severely limited.

Do you somehow feel you would need to check everyone's genitalia? I don't.
I don't feel that need, no; and I wouldn't do it, even if I did.

Simple acknowledgement? Really?
Yup. Pretty much all I can do, really. Not that anyone's asked me to do anything else, mind you.

Do you support or approve if men competing against women in women's sports?
I have no opinion on the matter. I don't follow sports.

Do you approve of or support men showering with women?
I can only speak for myself, and if I started showering with women, my wife would have something to say about that.

Do you approve of or support schools transitioning children without parental knowledge?
No school has asked for, or requires, my approval or support. Beyond that, I don't know of any school that functions as health care proxy for its students, so it doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

Do you support or approve of California's law removing parental rights from parents who's children come to California for medical transitioning?
As I said earlier in this post, I haven't read that specific law, so I can't comment on it. I also don't live in California, so my support or approval is irrelevant anyway.

These are simple yes or no questions. But I'm guessing you are going to continue to obfuscate.
I did not obfuscate. I answered to the best of my ability.

Sorry if that's not what you wanted.

You seem to be seeking my approval, or disapproval for these things...but the fact of the matter is, my approval, or lack of it, is entirely irrelevant. I tend to not offer my approval or disapproval for things no one needs me to approve, or disapprove, of.

-- A2SG, does make me stand out on the internet, sometimes, though.....
 
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rjs330

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You can claim that now, if you want to. I don't know how seriously anyone will take you, though.
Why not?
If they ask what race you identify as, you can answer that; but if they ask what race you are, you would need to answer that truthfully.

Remember how I keep saying that identity and biology aren't the same thing? This would be an example of one of their differences.
Truthfully? So is there is a truth in the matter. If they asked if I was male or female could I say I was a female and would that be answering truthfully?
They can try, but the only American Indian benefits I'm aware of are issued through the specific tribes involved, and they usually require more than just identifying as a member of their tribe before they grant them.
Why is that? Why can't I get all the rights and privileges of being a member if I identify as one? Is there some sort of objective reason?
And you keep missing the fact that identity and biology aren't the same thing.
I obviously don't because I said so when I said "Yes you can identify in your personal life however you want. No one has denied that." I also said, "The issue is your biology determines if you are correct in that identification."

Do you agree that your biology determines if you are correct or not?
I don't know of any school district that assumes the role of health care proxy for its students.
Let me help you once again to show you where you are uniformed.


did before, you didn't like it. I'd post the same thing again, but I suspect your response would be the same.

I have no idea what answer you're looking for, so maybe you should provide it yourself. Might save you some time.
No you didn't. In post 231 you said and I quote "The female of the species, human in this case."

A species is determined by biological facts. When I said you used biology to define woman you denied it. Then I asked you to define female and you have refused to do so saying you did. I went back through your posts and you never defined female. Once again you defined woman as "The female of the species, human in this case."

Species is a biological concept.

You were talking biology. Then you claimed you weren't. You are most definitely obfuscating by refusing to define female. You used biological concept then said you weren't using a biological concept when referring to female of the species. Then you refused to define female. Prove to me you defined female. Show me because I can't find it. I just provided you your own direct quote and also the post number.
have never, not at any time EVER said your identity, or anyone's identity wasn't legitimate. And this fact will be definitively confirmed in your next post when you fail to quote me saying anything even remotely close to that.

I have no way of knowing whether or not your identity is legitimate. Only you can know that.
Ah so if I tell you I identify as an African American you would have no way of knowing if I am legitimately an African American?
I have no way of knowing what species you identify as, no.
You would if I told you. If I told you I identify as a red tailed hawke am I legitimately a red tailed hawke?
I can only speak for myself, and if I started showering with women, my wife would have something to say about that.
I see so you have no opinions on anything at all unless it affects you directly?

You've said things like:

I have no opinion on the matter. I don't follow sports.

The government doesn't require you do that...but I can't speak for your employer. That'd be between you and them.

I don't know of any school district that assumes the role of health care proxy for its students.


You seem to have an opinion on whether identity is different that biology. Why is it you have an opinion on that but nothing else?

Do you have an opinion on states passing laws against medical transitioning children?
 
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A2SG

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I guess some people only take claims of discrimination against blacks seriously if you are, in fact, black. But you never know, really...

Truthfully? So is there is a truth in the matter.
That's usually a factor in legal documents.

If they asked if I was male or female could I say I was a female and would that be answering truthfully?
That would probably depend on whether they were asking what your sex is, or what gender you identify as.

Why is that? Why can't I get all the rights and privileges of being a member if I identify as one? Is there some sort of objective reason?
Ask them. They're the ones who determine who qualifies.

I obviously don't because I said so when I said "Yes you can identify in your personal life however you want. No one has denied that." I also said, "The issue is your biology determines if you are correct in that identification."
How can it, if you acknowledge that biology and identity aren't the same thing?

Do you agree that your biology determines if you are correct or not?
I don't see how it can, since biology and identity aren't the same thing.

Let me help you once again to show you where you are uniformed.

Hmm...a teacher did something that was NOT school policy, so she was suspended. Doesn't sound like the school district was acting as the child's health care proxy.

From that article: "'School-Based Health Centers follow all applicable laws and regulations pertaining to the provision of health care, including those relating to parental consent and patient confidentiality,' the district added."

No you didn't. In post 231 you said and I quote "The female of the species, human in this case."
There you go, you quoted me this time. Progress!

A species is determined by biological facts.
Sure.

When I said you used biology to define woman you denied it.
Nope, I never denied that. It's a perfectly valid definition.

Then I asked you to define female and you have refused to do so saying you did.
Because I did.

I went back through your posts and you never defined female. Once again you defined woman as "The female of the species, human in this case."
Yup, that's what I said. See, I did define it, when you asked.

Yup.

You were talking biology.
In that case, sure.

Then you claimed you weren't.
I wasn't always talking about biology. Other stuff came up, that had nothing to do with biology.

You are most definitely obfuscating by refusing to define female.
Nope, not at all.

You used biological concept then said you weren't using a biological concept when referring to female of the species.
I never said I wasn't using a biological concept when referring to an aspect of a species.

Then you refused to define female. Prove to me you defined female. Show me because I can't find it. I just provided you your own direct quote and also the post number.
No, you found it.

But...and here's the thing you're missing:

THAT ISN'T THE ONLY DEFINITION.

I offered an objective definition of the term, but there are any number of subjective definitions individuals may mean when using the term. Sometimes, particularly when referring to one's identity, it's a subjective definition being used.

Ah so if I tell you I identify as an African American you would have no way of knowing if I am legitimately an African American?
I have no idea what you identify as, nor do I have any idea what your skin color or ethnicity is.

You would if I told you.
If I believed you. And, since I have no way to confirm you're being truthful, that'd only be an assumption on my part.

If I told you I identify as a red tailed hawke am I legitimately a red tailed hawke?
I have no idea what you identify as, nor do I have any idea what your species is.

I see so you have no opinions on anything at all unless it affects you directly?
I have plenty. But you know what they say, opinions are like hemorrhoids, every "one" has them.

You've said things like:

I have no opinion on the matter. I don't follow sports.

The government doesn't require you do that...but I can't speak for your employer. That'd be between you and them.

I don't know of any school district that assumes the role of health care proxy for its students.

You seem to have an opinion on whether identity is different that biology. Why is it you have an opinion on that but nothing else?
I have many. It's just that few of them are relevant to anyone else. I doubt you care about my opinion on which actor played the best Batman. (It's Michael Keaton, by the way.)

Do you have an opinion on states passing laws against medical transitioning children?
Still haven't seen any evidence this has happened. You've claimed it, but none of the articles you post seem to back up your claims. The two above, for example.

Cite the law you refer to, and if it's real and says what you think it does, I may render an opinion...if you'd care to hear it.

-- A2SG, not sure why you'd care, but that's your problem, not mine.....
 
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rjs330

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guess some people only take claims of discrimination against blacks seriously if you are, in fact, black. But you never know, really...
But I am in fact black because it's my Identity. Since it's my identity I am legitimately back right?
That's usually a factor in legal documents.
So in truth a man who says his identity is a woman is in truth not a woman correct,?
Ask them. They're the ones who determine who qualifies.
So now it doesn't depend on me, but on others to determine?
How can it, if you acknowledge that biology and identity aren't the same thing?
Just like you love to point out I can do whatever I want. It doesn't mean I am correct.
I don't see how it can, since biology and identity aren't the same thing.
However one determines the truthfulness of the other.
From that article: "'School-Based Health Centers follow all applicable laws and regulations pertaining to the provision of health care, including those relating to parental consent and patient confidentiality,' the district added."
So I was right and you were wrong. Again.
Because I did.
Where? It's not anywhere. I looked. You are now spreading disinformation.
Yup, that's what I said. See, I did define it, when you asked.
See you never defined female.
but there are any number of subjective definitions individuals may mean when using the term. Sometimes, particularly when referring to one's identity, it's a subjective definition being used.
Then please provide a subjective definition of female. You said that a woman was a female of the species. A scientific term that is objective. Now you claim you were using a subjective definition of female? Where is that in your statement? You never made any qualifications. You never said a woman is a female identity of the species. Are you now claiming you did?
I have no idea what you identify as, nor do I have any idea what your species is.
I think we all now know how full of baloney you are. This has become a joke. I really wonder how many red tailed hawkes there are that could participate in human conversation much less type it out on a computer or cell phone.
 
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A2SG

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But I am in fact black because it's my Identity. Since it's my identity I am legitimately back right?
As I said before, you can identify as whatever you like. I have no idea what your skin color or ethnicity is.

So in truth a man who says his identity is a woman is in truth not a woman correct,?
If she says she identifies as a woman, she can call herself a woman if she wishes. I have no idea what genitalia she has.

So now it doesn't depend on me, but on others to determine?
Nope, you can identify as whatever you like, that's entirely up to you.

Just like you love to point out I can do whatever I want. It doesn't mean I am correct.
I have no way of knowing how correct (or incorrect) your stated identity is. Nor does anyone else.

However one determines the truthfulness of the other.
If you know of some way of determining the truthfulness of someone's stated identity, feel free to let the rest of us know.

So I was right and you were wrong. Again.
Doesn't look like it. You claimed school districts were acting against the parents wishes, but the article says they complied with the law regarding parental consent.

Where? It's not anywhere. I looked. You are now spreading disinformation.
Hey, you quoted it. If you didn't look when you quoted it, that's not my problem.

See you never defined female.
Are you unclear on the term?

Look, why don't you just make whatever point you're trying to make here, if that's what you're going for. I'm obviously not going to play along with whatever game you want to play.

Then please provide a subjective definition of female.
What would you gain from that? It would only be my personal definition, and wouldn't apply to anyone else.

You said that a woman was a female of the species. A scientific term that is objective.
Yup.

Now you claim you were using a subjective definition of female?
Nope. I said there were other definitions, some of which are subjective. I never claimed to use one of them.

Where is that in your statement? You never made any qualifications.
Because I didn't need any.

You never said a woman is a female identity of the species. Are you now claiming you did?
Nope. I said what I said.

I think we all now know how full of baloney you are.
Well, you're welcome to your opinion, of course.

This has become a joke. I really wonder how many red tailed hawkes there are that could participate in human conversation much less type it out on a computer or cell phone.
Hey, you made the claim about your own species, I just chose not to make any assumptions about it.

-- A2SG, and let the absurdities fall where they may......
 
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rjs330

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Hey, you made the claim about your own species, I just chose not to make any assumptions about it.

-- A2SG, and let the absurdities fall where they may......
Yes let's. I think it's pretty obvious here. There is no reason to continue a conversation with someone who has no idea if I'm a red tailed hawke or not.
 
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A2SG

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Yes let's. I think it's pretty obvious here. There is no reason to continue a conversation with someone who has no idea if I'm a red tailed hawke or not.
Hey, use whatever excuse you want.

I wouldn't want to try defending some of the absurd claims you've made, either.

-- A2SG, have fun storming the castle!
 
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