FLAT or ROUND Earth?

[Bradskii]

I've posted flights from Sydney to Santiago before. If you plot the flight on the only flat earth model anyone seems to offer, the path takes it almost directly over L.A. The weird thing is that the flight from Sydney to L.A. takes longer than the allegedly greater distance flight to Santiago. Still hearing crickets about that one.

Exactly. If you went to Santiago via LA then total flight time would be 23h 15m. So that's your flat earth route. And I got to Santiago in (drum roll please)...12h 30m. And...I landed an hour before I took off. Explain that Mr. Flat-earther!

And where does this business come from of flying via LA or Houston? Where's the map on which this can be seen? I demand to see it!

 

[Lost4words]

What do you expect, when you cannot see over the dash! You should let a grown up dog drive.

Woof!!!!!!!

 

[Lost4words]

You can drive too?

Of course!! I learnt when i was a very young pup!

 

[Edwin Wright]

The irony of your post is not only is it wrong with regards to a stationary earth but also contradicts a flat earth by your use of tangential velocities as a central theme.
In case you didn’t know here is an example of tangential velocity and the centripetal force for circular motion.

Using your NY to Bogota example if the earth is flat a plane after it reaches a cruising altitude and speed will be travelling in a straight line, there is no tangential velocity otherwise it will be travelling along a curved flight path with potential disastrous consequences.

We can examine this problem in another way by attaching directional accelerometers on the plane and measuring the radial acceleration due to the centripetal or centrifugal force which would be absent for a straight line trajectory.
The existence of radial acceleration confirms the flight path follows a curve corresponding to a circular arc which means the earth must also be curved in order for a cruising altitude to be maintained.

Show me the data.

 

[Bradskii]

Show me the data.

Show me the map.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And: 'The reader is advised to study commercial air trafic as depicted on a Mercator projection. See for example, the interactive display at Flightradar24.'

I just did, and today's flight from Santiago to Melbourne is very close to that blue flight path. Close enough that you'd probably see the Antarctic coastline. It flies south down the South American coast and then heads out over the ocean. As opposed to...umm...north to ummm...Houston.

Neat! Funny, we've done just what the 'reader is advised' to do. A little armchair experiment as it were, but the results do not appear to agree with the predictions of the flat earth hypothesis. Perhaps we should discard it.

 

[Bradskii]

Neat! Funny, we've done just what the 'reader is advised' to do. A little armchair experiment as it were, but the results do not appear to agree with the predictions of the flat earth hypothesis. Perhaps we should discard it.

If someone didn't know that flights go from Oz to Santiago or that there was actually a free app that shows you the route then they may be dumb enough to to say those flights didn't exist and there was no way of seeing what routes they take. But good grief, tickets are available on those flights a few clicks away. Some of us have actualy flown the route. And anyone with an internet connection and is interested in aircraft has that app.

Why, oh why, oh why, don't they check these things out themselves? Don't they know how foolish they look?

And where is that map!

 

[Edwin Wright]

Neat! Funny, we've done just what the 'reader is advised' to do. A little armchair experiment as it were, but the results do not appear to agree with the predictions of the flat earth hypothesis. Perhaps we should discard it.

View attachment 339033

Do you understand the difference between the solid purple line and the dashed black line?

 

[Edwin Wright]

If someone didn't know that flights go from Oz to Santiago or that there was actually a free app that shows you the route then they may be dumb enough to to say those flights didn't exist and there was no way of seeing what routes they take. But good grief, tickets are available on those flights a few clicks away. Some of us have actualy flown the route. And anyone with an internet connection and is interested in aircraft has that app.

Why, oh why, oh why, don't they check these things out themselves? Don't they know how foolish they look?

And where is that map!

And where is that review (of https://planegeodesy.com/appendix-ii-evolutionism-refuted-by-the-ribosome)? But it's OK, I understand.

 

[returntosender]

Of course!! I learnt when i was a very young pup!

 

[essentialsaltes]

Do you understand the difference between the solid purple line and the dashed black line?

I guess we shouldn't go look at Flightradar24 after all. All the world's oceans are mare incognitum to radar.

 

[Edwin Wright]

I work in the aviation sector and fly a lot as part of work. Reading that section of your website, these parts are clearly wrong:

"There is virtually no direct air traffic across the South Atlantic Ocean between southern South America and South Africa, or across the Indian Ocean from South Africa to Western Australia, or across the South Pacific Ocean from either Australia or New Zealand to southern South America. Transoceanic flights between cities south of the Tropic of Capricorn typically involve stopover destinations north of the equator."

There is plenty of South Atlantic traffic. Off the top of my head, Ethiopian Airlines, TAAG Angola, South African Airways all operate South America-Africa direct connections. Maybe Kenya Airways too, I know they were planning both Sao Paulo and Perth routes before the start of the pandemic. Then there's all of TAP's routes from Southern Europe into South America.

There is also direct air traffic across the Indian Ocean into Western Australia (and then on to Eastern Australia). I've personally flown on Qantas from Sydney to India and I've also flown from Sydney to Johannesburg. Air India also operates from multiple Indian cities to multiple Australian cities on the east coast and Perth Airport and the WA government have been negotiating to open direct service to Perth.

There is also direct air traffic across the Southern Pacific. Again, I've personal experience. I've flown direct with LAN Chile (now LATAM) from Australia to Chile operating via New Zealand multiple times.

The reason that there's not as much traffic across the South Pacific and Indian Ocean is wealth, history, airline economics, regulation/protectionism from governments for state-own airlines and aircraft safety rules (ETOPS in particular).

Just a housekeeping item, the issue is exclusively about how flights between cities south of the Tropic of Capricorn are handled in terms of either stopovers or jet stream acquisition. Accordingly, neither the TAP flights from southern Europe to South America nor the flights from India to Australia are in the argument.

By the way, may I ask what your position is in the aviation sector? (You don't need to refer to a specific company or organization.)

 

[Edwin Wright]

I guess we shouldn't go look at Flightradar24 after all. All the world's oceans are mare incognitum to radar.

For flights between cities south of the Tropic of Capricorn, we really need to see the flight data. Big time!

 

[essentialsaltes]

For flights between cities south of the Tropic of Capricorn, we really need to see the flight data. Big time!

Right, pace what is written on WORLD MAPS (Part 1), Flightradar24 is not a suitable instrument to determine whether "southern transoceanic flights [are] based on great circle geometry"

If only we had that FE map, we could at least see how the purple bits near the origin and destination 'line up'.

This one seems promising!

 

[Edwin Wright]

Ah, bless you. You are asking for help in making one.

'Development of such a map will not be an easy task but will require many specialists, including, but certainly not limited to, cartographers, geographers, geodesists, astronomers, and earth scientists. Additionally, input from aviators, sailors, and RF operators at all levels is critical. Finally, information technology specialists with the skills to process and re-organize public or commercially available databases and real time data inputs, are indispensible.

Any readers with suggestions in this respect are encouraged to contact this website.'

You say the world is flat. You've been claiming this for years. But you have no idea what it looks like? All this convoluted maths. All these arguments. Claim after claim. Rejection of even the most basic of evidence. And you don't even have a simple map?

You want input from astronomers? And sailors? And aviators? And geographers? Oh, dear me...how are you not acutely embarressed.

I suspect that you'll be acutely embarrassed when the reality of the stationary, flat earth is released to the public. But perhaps not.

 

[Edwin Wright]

This quote is a prime example of why I don’t believe that these people actually believe that the earth is flat because obviously someone with a higher than typical intelligence and education wrote this quote in the bold letters. You can tell just by the wording, yet even the most elementary examples and observations that refute the flat earth theory allegedly escapes them. I don’t believe that for a second because the idea of such a widespread conspiracy and the overwhelming evidence that is stacked against a flat earth is beyond ridiculous. No one with an intelligence and education of this caliber could possibly be so ignorant as to fail to grasp these simple concepts. They’re intentionally being obtuse and dishonest about the whole thing.

You could say the same thing about heliocentrism in terms of its adherents being either flummoxed or disingenuous. It really comes out on this thread.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I suspect that you'll be acutely embarrassed when the reality of the stationary, flat earth is released to the public.

As long as we're indulging fantasy scenarios, how do you imagine that coming about?

Will the President give a press conference?

Will QANTAS reveal the 'crisis actors' who have been paid to pretend to ride their airplanes?

We've lost Apollo astronauts Ken Mattingly and Frank Borman recently. Will we find confessions of the conspiracy in their published diaries?

Will the antiearthers on the flip side surprise the crew at McMurdo and reveal the truth to the people of this side?

 

[Gene2memE]

Just a housekeeping item, the issue is exclusively about how flights between cities south of the Tropic of Capricorn are handled in terms of either stopovers or jet stream acquisition. Accordingly, neither the TAP flights from southern Europe to South America nor the flights from India to Australia are in the argument.

Then why bring up India - Australia flights? And why are you ignoring the flights from South Africa to South America?

By the way, may I ask what your position is in the aviation sector? (You don't need to refer to a specific company or organization.)

Consulting and research, including route planning and development.

The firms I work for get network and operational information from airlines and the same ADS-B data as Flightradar and other tracking sites. Literally gigabytes a day of it.

Nothing in that data is incongruous with a spherical earth. Unless you think commercial airlines are lying about their fuel use and operating hours data? Or that SYD - SCL flights aren't actually being operated?

 

[Lost4words]

Flat earth beliefs are based on unscientific 'data' no scientific evidence at all. Its all come from comic books!

No 'real' scientist takes the flat earth believers seriously.

 

[prodromos]

You could say the same thing about heliocentrism in terms of its adherents being either flummoxed or disingenuous. It really comes out on this thread.

It does?
Where?