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Do you have a citation, or is this just you saying?
So is the BibleI am pro Round Earth and pro flat maps!
““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”Post your verse that show these verse are wrong, just remember, the verses you post should directly and clearly address receiving eternal life.
Still nothing to do with flat Earth.-Never said it did, but if it did people still would not believe it. I mean how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life can not get any plainer than John 6:47. But people do not believe that simple and to the point verse.
The same is true of you and the same is true of me.Only God knows if he is my brother in Christ.
The same is true of you and the same is true of me.
I don't believe that there are that many Christians who believe it, however, atheists will only be too happy to point them out and make them front and center and the face of Christianity.I hear a lot of Christians saying that we live on a flat earth and nobody can go in or out the earth. Is the Bible clear on this subject?
The Bible is very clear.I hear a lot of Christians saying that we live on a flat earth and nobody can go in or out the earth. Is the Bible clear on this subject?
No they weren't.Early Jews and Christians were flat earthers.
Yes they were. Prior to the second temple period, the ancient isrealites were absolutely flat earthers, as were early church fathers that pondered the existence of "antipodes" or people living upside down on the other side of the earth. Many early church fathers held vehement sermons against spherical earth proponents, such as john chrysostom. Ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, sumerians, akkadians, Babylonians etc. We're all flat earthers, sometimes they even drew flat earth maps as well, such as the flat earth Babylonian map of the world.No they weren't.
Yes they were. Prior to the second temple period, the ancient isrealites were absolutely flat earthers, as were early church fathers that pondered the existence of "antipodes" or people living upside down on the other side of the earth. Many early church fathers held vehement sermons against spherical earth proponents, such as john chrysostom. Ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, sumerians, akkadians, Babylonians etc. We're all flat earthers, sometimes they even drew flat earth maps as well, such as the flat earth Babylonian map of the world.
Under “Antiochene Theology,” the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church explicitly lists Paul of Samosata (3rd century), Lucian of Antioch (d. 312), Marcellus of Ancyra (d. c. 374), John Chrysostom (347–407), Theodore of Mopsuestia (c.350–428), Nestorius (d. c. 451), and Theodoret (c.393–c.458). Elsewhere, it also identifies Diodorus of Tarsus (d. 394) and Severianus of Gabala (fl. 400–408) as Antiochene theologians. Of the nine so identified, at least four—Theodore, Diodorus, Chrysostom, and Severianus—were dyed-in-the-wool flat-earthers, and I am not aware that any Antiochene explicitly endorsed a spherical earth. It seems that flat-earthism may have been a de facto doctrine of the Antiochene school.
Regarding Chrysostom’s views, Cosmas wrote, “He places the air first, then the moon, then the sun; in the next place, the firmament, then again, the heaven of heaven, without saying there are more than two heavens, and he ridicules those who say that it is a sphere, and maintain that it is in motion.”
But none of this should surprise anyone. Eratosthenes hadn't first measured a spherical earth until around 200 BC, whereas Genesis, Job and much of the old testament dates back to something like 1500BC and beyond.
When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Proverbs 8:27
Isaiah 40:22 Amplified Bible (AMP)
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth
Heres a list I found onlineL
To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6
Let's look at some more verses on the raqia:
And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
Genesis 1:6
God made the dome, and separated the waters which were below the dome from the waters which were above the dome; and it was so. God called the dome heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:7-8
And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
Genesis 7:11
the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Genesis 8:2
And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the dome of the sky.”
Genesis 1:20
And he dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, the top of it reaching to heaven; and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. And the Lord stood beside him [or stood above it] and said, “I am the Lord, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring;
Genesis 28:12-13
“You shall not make for yourself a divine image with any form that is in the heavens above or that is in the earth below or that is in the water below the earth.
Exodus 20:4
and they saw the God of Israel. Under his feet there was something like a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness.
Exodus 24:10
He has described a circle on the face of the water between light and darkness. “The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:10-11
can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze?
Job 37:18
So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:13
Yet in all the world their line goes out, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has pitched a tent for the sun,
Psalms 19:4
To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6
Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place forever and ever, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4-6
Praise Yah. Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament.
Psalms 150:1
and all the host of heaven shall rot. And the skies shall roll up like a scroll, and all their host shall wither like the withering of a leaf from a vine, or like the withering from a fig tree.
Isaiah 34:4
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Isaiah 40:22
Over the heads of the angels there was something like a dome, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads.
Ezekiel 1:22
And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire stone; and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form.
Ezekiel 1:26
And I looked, and look! On the dome that was above the head of the cherubim something like a stone of sapphire, and like the appearance of the shape of a throne it appeared above them.
Ezekiel 10:1
He made strong the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
Proverbs 8:28-29
The sky vanished like a scroll rolling itself up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
Revelation 6:14
he will wind a winding tightly around you like a ball (The biblical authors had words for spherical objects that they could use if they wanted to), to a wide land. There you shall die, and there the chariots of your splendor will be, disgrace to your master’s house!
Isaiah 22:18
He raises up the poor from the dust. From the ash heap he lifts up the needy, to cause them to sit with noble people and to cause them to inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth belong to Yahweh and he has set the inhabited world on them.
1 Samuel 2:8
“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding. Who determined its measurement? Yes, you do know. Or who stretched the measuring line upon it? On what were its bases sunk (talking about the pillars that hold earth up)? Or who laid its cornerstone,
Job 38:4-6
The earth and all its inhabitants are shaking; I steady its columns. Selah
Psalms 75:3
For the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, And he hath set the world upon them.
1 Samuel 2:8
View attachment 330062
I'm not seeing any quotes directly from St John Chrysostom or the others mentioned. All I'm seeing is claims that they were flat earthers. I'm going to need to see well referenced quotes so I can read them myself in context.Regarding Chrysostom’s views, Cosmas wrote, “He places the air first, then the moon, then the sun; in the next place, the firmament, then again, the heaven of heaven, without saying there are more than two heavens, and he ridicules those who say that it is a sphere, and maintain that it is in motion.”
If you can provide such an image from ancient Hebrew sources then I will accept that some may have had such a view, but someone putting this image together and claiming it is ancient Hebrew cosmology is baseless. It is their personal interpretation of the what they believe the Scriptures say.
That is an embarrassing comment. You obviously did not read what Augustine said. He said no such thing as you stated.-Augustine who believed in works for receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. Has no influence on me for any Biblical teaching. So saying Augustine, saying that God's creation, is a stumbling block to christian witness. Would line up with one who like Augustine, does not believe God at God's own written words.
I like that. plus the mileage would be vastly different.I have stopped trying to debate flat earthers because it is akin to trying to convince cult members that they are in a cult. However, I will say that it is possible to prove the flat earth model of Antarctica surrounding the earth to be false by simply sailing along its coastline. Flat earthers tend to claim that a person cannot traverse Antarctica to the edge of the earth because it is forbidden to do so. It isn't, but accepting that it is forbidden as fact for the moment, it is definitely not forbidden to sail along its coastline. It has been done.
If the flat earth model of Antarctica surrounding the earth is true, then in order to sail along its coastline, keeping it to starboard, would require a ship to sail in an anticlockwise direction by steering to port as it sails.
If the spherical earth model of Antarctica is true then the same coastal journey would require a ship to sail in a clockwise direction by steering to starboard.
Here is one such journey:
View attachment 330052
Sailing Antarctica: Record-breaking voyage around the southern continent
In March 2018, Oyster 72 Katharsis II became the first yacht to sail round Antarctica below 62°S. Skipper Mariusz Koper recounts this extraordinary voyagewww.yachtingworld.com
Now I can almost hear the objections - Fake! Deception! Didn't happen! They were fooled! It wasn't Antarctica, they were just told it was! It doesn't prove anything! It's a conspiracy!
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