Flat-Earthers

[ThatRobGuy]

The same people that reject the science of an empirically spherical earth have no problems accepting science of medicine when they're sick. Funny how that works.

...actually, many don't.

Maybe it's coincidence, but (and I'm embarrassed to admit this), I have a family member who falls in the "flat earther" category, and he and all of his cronies swear that whenever you're sick, you actually need to be taking silver and seeing a chiropractor instead of actually trusting doctors...who they claim "are just part of the big phrama conspiracy to make us all subservient with their mind control drugs".

 

[High Fidelity]

If it's a globe we shouldn't be able to see Chicago across 54 miles of Lake Michigan.

Nothing more amusing than the smug self confidence of those who believe lies.

I don't think you appreciate just how big of a globe it is.

It isn't until you get much higher in altitude that you can see the curvature because of the sheer scale.

Also, age old question but it's never answered: If the earth is flat, where are the edges? Why don't we fall off? Please, show me where the edges of the world are.

 

[Hieronymus]

There seems to be a surge of Christian "flat-earthers" coming out of the woodwork in these last times before the Return of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. There are MANY who consider themselves "watchmen" of God and spend much of their time and effort to prove that science can almost never be used to prove the veracity of the Bible; and this often leads them to delusional beliefs and confusion.

It's most probably a "psyop" that was launched by people with an axe to grind.
All of a sudden there were many channels and FE prophets out there.
They PRETEND to be Bible believing Christians.
So, their victims are being lead to delusional beliefs and conclusions based on very little.
Sometimes they become fresh FE prophets.

Some points to consider also:
The Bible uses a flat earth model, with a dome.
NASA are freemasons and not as credible as they claim.
'The world' failed in brainwashing Christians with the evolution (speciation / specialization) myth, but they want to make Christians look stupid.
Often 'the world' is not truthful about things (in media and education).

The mindset of such people are that they are among the "chosen" few who are the purveyors of Absolute Truth in Christendom today.

Well, i think they could be if they would actually seek truth in stead of juicy controversies.
This is somewhat a trap for truth seekers in general.
Once you discover a few things about the world we live in, you know that incredible and horrific things are reality.
As a consequence truth seekers are open to anything, because it seems anything is possible, even if it's incredible.
But where they fail is in research and assessment and weighing the evidence.
They become like sucklings who need the teat to provide what they crave.
Conspiracy theory endorphins. That's a real thing.

The Word of God is the most authoritative book on the planet, and even SCIENCE can attest to its veracity. The bible clearly proves that the Earth was round long before astronomers have discovered this fact. It's tragic that Old Testament "scholars" and theologians CANNOT rightly divide the word of TRUTH.

Well, you're wrong.
Biblical earth is flat and rests on pillars, and has a dome over it.
But it is typical for the Bible to use ideas that were common when it was written.

By the way, aren't you doing the same as flat earthers now by putting "scholars" in quotes?
As if ALL scholars are the same and all wrong..
But that's probably in reaction to the untruths we've been fed under the guise of science and scholarship.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If that's not evidence, then what is?

People shouldn't even waste their time lol...I've played this game before.

It's a never-ending moving goalposts cycle. No matter what you provide, they'll always have some reason why that evidence "isn't real".

-Every piece of tangible, visual evidence like photos will be dismissed as "photoshopped"

-Every eyewitness report from astronauts and member of the ISS & NASA will be dismissed as "they're in on it because they'll be killed if they don't propagate the lie"

The irony is, they get their "evidence" from blogs using a very in-depth research technique.

It goes a little something like:

Here's the part I can't figure out...

Why? At least with the anti-vaxxers and the 9/11 truthers, there's at least a somewhat cogent explanation for "Why" the "powers that be" do what they do. For instance, the 9/11 truthers believe it was an inside job, so that the Bush administration could have an excuse to get military involvement in order to be able to shell out money to cronies in the defense industry. Their theory is junk, but at least there's an answer to "why?" when you ask them.

I don't know that the same exists for Flat Earth theorists...when I've asked this of them, I never really get an answer other than just a generic opposition to mainstream science due to the mainstream scientific community holding some other view that oppose their religious preferences.

 

[A_Thinker]

When you read Genesis for what it actually says you will find that it distinguishes between Adam's Flat Earth, which was only 22.5 feet in elevation on it's highest mountains Genesis 7:20 and the present Earth.

Since this is so obviously not definitive for the entire Earth (i.e. 22.5 feet in elevation on it's highest mountains), ... why do you expect the rest of the text to be definitive ?

 

[Hieronymus]

...actually, many don't.

Maybe it's coincidence, but (and I'm embarrassed to admit this), I have a family member who falls in the "flat earther" category, and he and all of his cronies swear that whenever you're sick, you actually need to be taking silver and seeing a chiropractor instead of actually trusting doctors...who they claim "are just part of the big phrama conspiracy to make us all subservient with their mind control drugs".

But they're not entirely wrong there though.
So why are you embarrassed?
I guess because they're unreasonable about it..

But this is the trick:
Make your opposition / enemy / object of hate believe crazy things and they lose their credibility.
Alex Jones is a well known example of how 'they' discredit the truth community and make them look like fools.
Flat Earth is in the same category.
It usually works because it's mixing controversial truths with bovine excrement.

It's like a spell...

 

[Hieronymus]

People shouldn't even waste their time lol...I've played this game before.

It's a never-ending moving goalposts cycle. No matter what you provide, they'll always have some reason why that evidence "isn't real".

The irony is, they get their "evidence" from blogs using a very in-depth research technique.

It goes a little something like:
View attachment 247095

Stop projecting.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Stop projecting.

I'm not projecting anything, simply stating a fact.

Did you not see how that earlier exchange went? A person posted their evidence (a photograph showing the curvature of the earth), and it was immediately dismissed as being "doctored" or "fake" by flat earthers.

When there are testimonials provided from people who have actually been in space, they're dismissed as being "in on it".

So tell me, what evidence would a flat earther need to see in order to change their viewpoint? I suspect there is nothing, because no matter what is provided, they'll dismiss it because they want to be in the alternative/conspiracy camp...that's just the way they're wired.

 

[Hieronymus]

I'm not projecting anything, simply stating a fact.

'course you are...

Did you not see how that earlier exchange went? A person posted their evidence (a photograph showing the curvature of the earth), and it was immediately dismissed as being "doctored" or "fake" by flat earthers.

That's just about as cringeworthy as people believing our reality came to be unintended and without intelligence...

My point is, and i explained this too in other posts, that it's easier to convince people of a lie than to convince them they've been lied to.
But once you're convinced you've been lied to, there's a definite risk of falling for lies that oppose your previous convictions that may have been a lie.

When there are testimonials provided from people who have actually been in space, they're dismissed as being "in on it".

You should have a look then, at what is the basis for the distrust.
You'll find compelling evidence that suggests we shouldn't just take what the media presents, at face value.
The narrow path of truth seeking...
It's essential to stay on track and / or get back on track when you've been distracted.

So tell me, what evidence would a flat earther need to see in order to change their viewpoint? I suspect there is nothing, because no matter what is provided, they'll dismiss it because they want to be in the alternative/conspiracy camp...that's just the way they're wired.

Just like atheists, in a way... Muslims too.
In fact, we all have that tendency.
People prefer to have their convictions confirmed.
It's also a matter of taking authority as truth versus taking the truth as authority.

Controversies, controversies...
There are many...
It makes me tired..

 

[Lost4words]

Flat earth believers dont believe:

• Scientists
• Astronomers
• Academics
• Governments
• NASA
• All the other space agencies in the world
• Space technology companies
• Entrepreneurs who are trying to put people ito space
• Universities tied to specific space programs
• TRUTH

 

[High Fidelity]

Flat earth believers dont believe:

• Scientists
• Astronomers
• Academics
• Governments
• NASA
• All the other space agencies in the world
• Space technology companies
• Entrepreneurs who are trying to put people ito space
• Universities tied to specific space programs
• TRUTH

Right? In their mind it must be the largest global(for lack of a better word...) conspiracy in the history of mankind.

And for what? There's literally no net gain to lie about it.

 

[Hieronymus]

Flat earth believers dont believe:

• Scientists
• Astronomers
• Academics
• Governments
• NASA
• All the other space agencies in the world
• Space technology companies
• Entrepreneurs who are trying to put people ito space
• Universities tied to specific space programs
• TRUTH

You're right, but unfortunately much of the above mentioned does not deserve blind faith either...
Once you know about who basically own everything in the world, and what their beliefs are and what agenda they push, you'll understand it is justified to at least have doubts about most things that are pushed as truth.
So i can relate to the mind set flat earthers have, but they're doing it wrong.
They have been lured over to extreme, unreasonable opposites.

 

[Hieronymus]

Right? In their mind it must be the largest global(for lack of a better word...) conspiracy in the history of mankind.

And for what? There's literally no net gain to lie about it.

It's a psyop to make truth seekers, conspiracy investigators and Bible believing Christians look like fools.
It works...

 

[Tom 1]

Have you ever tried comparing satellite coordinates (ball-Earth) to those obtained from a base-station (flat-Earth), on a larger scale (up to ~5km by ~2km). I have seen this, and found that the base-station provided more consistently accurate coordinates across the field. The satellites seemed to give large errors at the edges of the system (when calibrated to best-fit). The base-station, smaller errors, and fairly consistent along the square (not significantly worse at the edges).

At the time, I didn't understand why. Now I realise it was probably due to mapping a ball-Earth shape onto a flat Earth plane.

If a genuinely flat earth model for a GPS type system was possible, i.e if the earth was actually completely flat, with no large obstacles etc, then it wouldn't have to deal with sending signals through the atmosphere, or with the gadget allowing for the relative movements of satellites. Not sure how it would actually work though, on anything other than a fixed object or over completely flat land. How would you trilaterate the position of someone moving across deep valleys and mountains? Or even just above a certain height? Even if you somehow had repeaters that could by some means be kept in a fixed position above the earth, how would they track your position relative to the base with the same accuracy?

 

[Tom 1]

It's a psyop to make truth seekers, conspiracy investigators and Bible believing Christians look like fools.
It works...

Honestly, who would have the time to waste on such nonsense? Really, this kind of idea would require the world to be quite literally 'unreal', to actually be the fantasy land your internet sources make it out to be.

 

[Hieronymus]

Honestly, who would have the time to waste on such nonsense?

You'd be surprised.
As long as there's money for it, there are people who will do the job.
Shills and gatekeepers are real.

Really, this kind of idea would require the world to be quite literally 'unreal', to actually be the fantasy land your internet sources make it out to be.

You only need a few dedicated folks to start channels and webpages to push a story.
Pay some Goolag and ThemTube folks to get it high up in the search results and suggestions et voila, people are reached.
Make it juicy and appealing and it will go viral.

It's like the pop culture and the hippy movement.
People still believe it was a grassroots thing, while in reality it was all planned and payed for to make people do away with the old morals and values.

 

[Hieronymus]

Honestly, who would have the time to waste on such nonsense? Really, this kind of idea would require the world to be quite literally 'unreal', to actually be the fantasy land your internet sources make it out to be.

Your comment actually proves it works.
You assume it's a grassroots thing, by stupid people.

 

[Tom 1]

Your comment actually proves it works.
You assume it's a grassroots thing, by stupid people.

No, I don't think it's 'stupid'. Stupid and wrong isn't the same thing. But it is a kind of mindset that seems to incorporate some inability to properly assess things. Most of the people I know who believe this kind of thing spend a lot of time on the internet, and have jobs that are more technical than people based, or involve working individually. I know that's pretty vague, but I do ponder what it is that leads people to not be able to evaluate how things actually work in the world of 'people', how things happen in the world and so on.

 

[Hieronymus]

No, I don't think it's 'stupid'. Stupid and wrong isn't the same thing.

They go hand in hand though.

But it is a kind of mindset that seems to incorporate some inability to properly assess things.

And that's a bit stupid...

Most of the people I know who believe this kind of thing spend a lot of time on the internet, and have jobs that are more technical than people based, or involve working individually. I know that's pretty vague, but I do ponder what it is that leads people to not be able to evaluate how things actually work in the world of 'people', how things happen in the world and so on.

It seems you're looking for ad hominem arguments against these things.
But 2 can play that game.
The majority of people are gullible 'normies' who have blind faith in anyone who assumes authority and is backed by the mainstream.
Often better educated people even, who apparently have been more thoroughly prepped by 'the system'.

Either way, the discussions ought to be about the content and the evidence.
Not about who is smart and who is dumb.
Not about what's the majority or the minority view.

But don't forget the 0.1% of the people, who own everything, have a huge and very powerful propaganda apparatus in their hands.

 

[Tom 1]

They go hand in hand though.And that's a bit stupid... It seems you're looking for ad hominem arguments against these things.
But 2 can play that game.
The majority of people are gullible 'normies' who have blind faith in anyone who assumes authority and is backed by the mainstream.
Often better educated people even, who apparently have been more thoroughly prepped by 'the system'.

Either way, the discussions ought to be about the content and the evidence.
Not about who is smart and who is dumb.
Not about what's the majority or the minority view.

But don't forget the 0.1% of the people, who own everything, have a huge and very powerful propaganda apparatus in their hands.

But it is mindset that is the issue - on threads of this sort you get nowhere trying to address anything concrete, the conspiracy theorist mindset is elusive by definition and won’t be tied to anything that can actually be discussed in detail in any useful way, it’s all about random assertions based in a sort of collective ‘feeling’, linked up with various obscure notions that involve joining up dots based on supposition and a general way of thinking, rather than actual things that actually have relationships between them. Some of it is the exact outcome the (then) Soviets had in mind when they first started these disinformation programs in the 80s, but perhaps even they underestimated how much people love to be deluded, and to what extent it would take on a life of its own.