Flat Earth V.S Round Earth? (Also helio/geocentrism)

[Aldebaran]

You mean we can't do that now? We can, just haven't. Why is that?

Well, we actually have. But then when the pictures are taken that show the earth as a sphere, then some people say they are fakes. So what's the point of trying to prove anything that way?

 

[Aldebaran]

But can you prove that? Physics doesn't work that way with anything else. Try riding the wing of an airplane and the wind will make you fly off the other direction. Wind never goes in the direction of any moving object. But it does with the Earth?

The airplane in your example is moving against the air. It has to do that in order to fly. However, as the earth rotates, the atmosphere is more "connected" to the earth than it is to space. Therefore, as the earth rotates, the atmosphere generally rotates along with it.

 

[Aldebaran]

That's along the lines of the Felix Buamgartner free fall record in 2012. He ascended into the stratosphere, an ascent that lasted just over 2 1/2 hours. After his jump, he landed less than 2 miles from his launch site (his craft landed later 55 miles away).

If the earth's rotation was approaching 1,000 mph below him, and the ascent took 2 1/2 hours to make, how did his launch site remain beneath him without rotating away? And if the claim is that he was also being dragged at a speed greater than the rotating ground in order to stay above it, then where is this force when airliners travel east to west or when there are multiple levels of multidirectional wind above the earth's surface? One can't have it both ways.

I'm glad you bring up Felix Baumgartner. He ascended to a height just before his jump to where he could see the curvature of the Earth. https://blogs-images.forbes.com/jim...gartner-super-bowl-gopro-red-bull-stratos.jpg

 

[Aldebaran]

Now why do you believe all of that? Because secular scientists say so? May as well just go all the way and accept the big bang theory.

Why wouldn't I? If there's some part of what I said that you don't think is correct, you're free to point it out so we can discuss it.

 

[Aldebaran]

I wouldn't???

No, you wouldn't. If you want to prove to yourself whether or not it is true, you can do the experiment yourself if you're on a train or even a bus. Don't just assume a statement to be false if you have the means to discover the answer for yourself.

 

[Repented797]

The airplane in your example is moving against the air. It has to do that in order to fly. However, as the earth rotates, the atmosphere is more "connected" to the earth than it is to space. Therefore, as the earth rotates, the atmosphere generally rotates along with it.

Yes, I understand that's what we have been told by secular, atheistic fallible "scientists" - but can you prove it?

 

[Repented797]

No, you wouldn't. If you want to prove to yourself whether or not it is true, you can do the experiment yourself if you're on a train or even a bus. Don't just assume a statement to be false if you have the means to discover the answer for yourself.

Inside a moving vehicle, the wind air inside indeed moves with the vehicle because it is enclosed. The Earth is not enclosed. Therefore if the Earth is really spinning at 1000 MPH, we should all be flying off as we would if we were on a Merry go round that was moving that fast.

As a side note, while 70MPH wind might not send you flying to the back of the bus even if the windows were open, stick a piece of paper near the window of a bus and tell me what happens.

But hey. Believe whatever secular scientists with no fear of God tell you if you want. I'll choose to question with critical thinking instead. ........with bible in hand

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, I understand that's what we have been told by secular, atheistic fallible "scientists" - but can you prove it?

I'm not sure how you want me to prove to you that space doesn't put a drag on the atmosphere to hold it in place while the earth rotates. I guess if scientists with all their instrumentation and technology can't prove it to you, then I doubt I have much of a chance.

But if you're convinced that these things aren't true, then what is your explanation of the shape of the earth and all that indicates that it's a sphere and rotates on its axis?

 

[Repented797]

Why wouldn't I? If there's some part of what I said that you don't think is correct, you're free to point it out so we can discuss it.

Why wouldn't you? Well -

1. I'm assuming you are a Christian? So for starters - how about the bible teaches contrary?

2. Because such a theory as you describe is only speculative. It can't be proven. Granted, neither can God (that's why they call it faith).

So.... CHOOSE. You can't have both. The bible says "choose this day who you will serve".

Either believe the bible or believe secular scientists....but you can't have both.

 

[Aldebaran]

Inside a moving vehicle, the wind air inside indeed moves with the vehicle because it is enclosed. The Earth is not enclosed. Therefore if the Earth is really spinning at 1000 MPH, we should all be flying off as we would if we were on a Merry go round that was moving that fast.

Actually, the earth is enclosed. It's enclosed by an atmosphere held in place by gravity, which is why we don't go flying off while it spins at 1,000 MPH. If you were on a Merry Go Round going that fast and the MGR had a gravitational center that pulled you toward the center as it spun, then you wouldn't go flying off of that either.

As a side note, while 70MPH wind might not send you flying to the back of the bus even if the windows were open, stick a piece of paper near the window of a bus and tell me what happens.

But hey. Believe whatever secular scientists with no fear of God tell you if you want. I'll choose to question with critical thinking instead. ........with bible in hand

What you're speaking of here is a closed versus open system. The bus and it's air are moving at the same speed. However, if you open the windows, or more accurately if you were to remove the entire windshield and rear windows, then the air would move at 70MPH because the air inside the bus is taken over by the non-moving air outside that the bus is moving through.

 

[Aldebaran]

Why wouldn't you? Well -

1. I'm assuming you are a Christian? So for starters - how about the bible teaches contrary?

Show me where it teaches contrary to what I've said so far.

2. Because such a theory as you describe is only speculative. It can't be proven. Granted, neither can God (that's why they call it faith).

It's been proven well enough that calculations and trajectories have been based on them and have been accurate. Can you please explain to me how they can be accurate if they're based on something that is completely false?

So.... CHOOSE. You can't have both. The bible says "choose this day who you will serve".

Either believe the bible or believe secular scientists....but you can't have both.

Believing what has been proven in science doesn't mean I don't serve God.

 

[SeventyOne]

I'm glad you bring up Felix Baumgartner. He ascended to a height just before his jump to where he could see the curvature of the Earth. https://blogs-images.forbes.com/jim...gartner-super-bowl-gopro-red-bull-stratos.jpg

You should check out the camera shot taken from inside the capsule as he was exiting. Uh-oh, where'd that curve from the other camera go?

Seconds 46 and 47 of the video...

 

[Aldebaran]

You should check out the camera shot taken from inside the capsule as he was exiting. Uh-oh, where'd that curve from the other camera go?

Seconds 46 and 47 of the video...

That shot you're referring to shows such a small portion of the earth through the doorway (with Felix blocking half of it) that it's hard to see the curve. From the external view, you can see it much better. If you take a large ball, such as a beach ball, and look at it from a normal distance, it is clearly round. But if you look at the edge of it close-up enough to where you only see a tiny portion of it, it will appear flat.

However, if I'm wrong about this, then I wonder why Felix himself isn't on record telling people, "Hey everyone! NASA has been lying about the earth being a sphere! I was up there and it was clearly flat!" I mean, this would be pretty major news.

 

[SeventyOne]

That shot you're referring to shows such a small portion of the earth through the doorway (with Felix blocking half of it) that it's hard to see the curve. From the external view, you can see it much better. If you take a large ball, such as a beach ball, and look at it from a normal distance, it is clearly round. But if you look at the edge of it close-up enough to where you only see a tiny portion of it, it will appear flat.

However, if I'm incorrect about this, then I wonder why Felix himself isn't on record telling people, "Hey everyone! NASA has been lying about the earth being a sphere!" I mean, this would be pretty major news.

Nice try, but no. That curve from the fish-eye lens outside the capsule was very pronounced, and a wee bit lopsided. Had that been reality, it would have been seen from the inside as well.

You should look up the X-15 footage on YouTube sometimes. It was 315,000 feet in the air, about 2 1/2 times higher than Felix.

Not only will you not see a curve as pronounced as seen in the Felix footage, you actually won't see any curve at all. Let that sink in, 315k feet and no curve.

 

[Repented797]

Show me where it teaches contrary to what I've said.

The following two passages clearly indicate that it is the sun and moon that move - not Earth.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Those are enough for me to believe that we are not moving.

 

[Aldebaran]

Nice try, but no. That curve from the fish-eye lens outside the capsule was very pronounced, and a wee bit lopsided. Had that been reality, it would have been seen from the inside as well.

You should look up the X-15 footage on YouTube sometimes. It was 315,000 feet in the air, about 2 1/2 times higher than Felix.

Not only will you not see a curve as pronounced as seen in the Felix footage, you actually won't see any curve at all. Let that sink in, 315k feet and no curve.

How do you know it was at 315,000 feet? Maybe they were lying about that. The X-15 was a military plane you know!

 

[Repented797]

Actually, the earth is enclosed. It's enclosed by an atmosphere held in place by gravity, which is why we don't go flying off while it spins at 1,000 MPH. If you were on a Merry Go Round going that fast and the MGR had a gravitational center that pulled you toward the center as it spun, then you wouldn't go flying off of that either.



What you're speaking of here is a closed versus open system. The bus and it's air are moving at the same speed. However, if you open the windows, or more accurately if you were to remove the entire windshield and rear windows, then the air would move at 70MPH because the air inside the bus is taken over by the non-moving air outside that the bus is moving through.

More circular reasoning. If our "gravitational pull" is achieved by the object we are standing on "spinning", why can't we pull that trick off in a science lab? (Same argument Is give to people who believe in the big bang fairy tale).

Show me a spinning ball that causes items to suddenly "attach themselves" to it and you will have successfully proven a Heliocentric experiment. Until then - I am going with "we are stuck to this Earth because God designed it that way"

 

[Aldebaran]

The following two passages clearly indicate that it is the sun and moon that move - not Earth.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Those are enough for me to believe that we are not moving.

Do you think it would have made sense to anyone living in those days if it had said that the earth slowed to a stop in its rotation rather than that the sun and moon stayed in their place in the sky? Even today, people still refer to the sun coming up and going down because that's the way it appears from our standpoint.

I'd like to hear your interpretations of how certain things can be if things are as you say. Why do people see different stars in the southern hemisphere than in the northern hemisphere? If the earth was flat, then everyone would see the same stars. But the fact is that those in the southern hemisphere are in a different position and are looking up into space from a different place on the earth. Clearly, this is not just speculative. People have flown on airplanes from one hemisphere to the other and can attest to this.

 

[Aldebaran]

More circular reasoning. If our "gravitational pull" is achieved by the object we are standing on "spinning", why can't we pull that trick off in a science lab? (Same argument Is give to people who believe in the big bang fairy tale).

Gravity is caused by objects of great mass, which is something you're not going to be able to pull off in a lab, although it may or may not be possible to create a small object with super-density that could have its own gravity.

Show me a spinning ball that causes items to suddenly "attach themselves" to it and you will have successfully proven a Heliocentric experiment.

A ball that spins isn't what causes anything to "suddenly attach" to it. It's gravity that causes that. If the rotation wasn't present, then the gravity would have an increased effect.

Until then - I am going with "we are stuck to this Earth because God designed it that way"

Uh, yes! God did design it that way. The only disagreement we have is the design itself.

 

[Repented797]

Gravity is caused by objects of great mass, which is something you're not going to be able to pull off in a lab, although it may or may not be possible to create a small object with super-density that could have its own gravity.



A ball that spins isn't what causes anything to "suddenly attach" to it. It's gravity that causes that. If the rotation wasn't present, then the gravity would have an increased effect.



Uh, yes! God did design it that way. The only disagreement we have is the design itself.

Exactly. And there is one thing both of our conclusions have in common along with one thing they don't have in common.

What your theory and my theory have in common is that we can't do a lab experiment on it. Therefore both are speculative.

What your theory and my theory DON'T have in common is that there is Scriptural support for my theory and absolutely ZERO for yours.