Five Misconceptions About Calvinism

redleghunter

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So?

The 39 articles were written in a time when witches were still being burnt at the stake, Africans were still being taken by force and sold as slaves, Catholic Queens were ordering the killing Protestants and Protestant Queens were ordering the killing of Catholics. As someone who believes the Oxford movement was a breath of fresh air for the Church of England I read the 39 Articles as guidelines and an historical document and definitely not infallible. I am not a fundamentalist and will never be a fundamentalist and I consider myself a thinking Christian and the Bible as the Living word of God that contains all we need for our salvation.
Was just curious no offense intended as most Anglicans I come across here on line and in person have a more firm view of the 39 Articles of Religion as it is what makes them Anglican in unity with other Anglicans and not Methodist or some other church.
 
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gordonhooker

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Was just curious no offense intended as most Anglicans I come across here on line and in person have a more firm view of the 39 Articles of Religion as it is what makes them Anglican in unity with other Anglicans and not Methodist or some other church.

No offence taken brother - for Anglicans it depends on whether your leaning is toward High Church, Low Church or somewhere in between. I was formed in High Church CofE and as a Franciscan I am very Anglo Catholic in my theological worldview, so some of the articles in the 39 Articles are just a little too Protestant and I am also quite liberal in some areas. Lets just say looking outward I have found that all Christian denominations have their things that I agree with and things that I don't agree with, so when I returned to Church after a number of years following other things I figured I would return to Church of my childhood and live with the bits I don't agree with. That said as Lay leader and preacher in the Church I would not preach anything that is contrary to the 39 Articles and I would not preach anything that went against the Canons of the Anglican Church of Australia.
 
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redleghunter

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If regeneration precedes faith, then its regeneration against the will, which is the same thing as worn down.
If we are not made alive in our spiritually dead state (Ephesians 2) then we don’t have ears that hear and eyes that see.

I’m curious why are so many people opposed to God acting first in regeneration? Did not Jesus say all that the Father gives Him? Not all that come to the Father?

I’m a bit baffled at some of the comments from Catholics lately denying original sin and historic church council canons.

For example, the Council of Orange 529 AD settled the matter of even our saving faith is by the Grace of God. Here’s some canons from the council.

CANON 2. If anyone asserts that Adam's sin affected him alone and not his descendants also, or at least if he declares that it is only the death of the body which is the punishment for sin, and not also that sin, which is the death of the soul, passed through one man to the whole human race, he does injustice to God and contradicts the Apostle, who says, "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" (Rom. 5:12).

CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, "The will is prepared by the Lord" (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

CANON 5. If anyone says that not only the increase of faith but also its beginning and the very desire for faith, by which we believe in Him who justifies the ungodly and comes to the regeneration of holy baptism -- if anyone says that this belongs to us by nature and not by a gift of grace, that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit amending our will and turning it from unbelief to faith and from godlessness to godliness, it is proof that he is opposed to the teaching of the Apostles, for blessed Paul says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). And again, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8). For those who state that the faith by which we believe in God is natural make all who are separated from the Church of Christ by definition in some measure believers.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).

There’s more:


Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org
 
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Tree of Life

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Original sin it not something everyone agrees with, I realise Augustine pushed it but I don't agree with it. Although it does make a great scapegoat for human nature.

They let Anglican clergy get away with quite a bit these days!
 
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Sorry I don't understand, what is your point?

I think the point is the modern Anglican Church is a pale reflection of the historical past Anglican Church, he can correct me if I am mistaken. This is true of other denominations as well I know, so don't feel alone. However there are modern folks whom would like for their modernized denomination to be closer in form to the historical roots of their denomination, especially concerning emphasis and importance of confessions and doctrines.
 
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gordonhooker

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I think the point is the modern Anglican Church is a pale reflection of the historical past Anglican Church, he can correct me if I am mistaken. This is true of other denominations as well I know, so don't feel alone. However there are modern folks whom would like for their modernized denomination to be closer in form to the historical roots of their denomination, especially concerning emphasis and importance of confessions and doctrines.

Thanks for you reply brother.

From the outside looking in it may seem that way but the Anglican Church has always been very broad... and like others groups with any community there are very conservative people and very liberal, I like to think I am somewhere in the middle.
 
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Thanks for you reply brother.

From the outside looking in it may seem that way but the Anglican Church has always been very broad... and like others groups with any community there are very conservative people and very liberal, I like to think I am somewhere in the middle.

I've always thought, on paper at least, the Anglican Church to be a curious mixture of Reformed Catholic and Reformed Protestant peoples. I only know of one local Anglican Church and it's too far of a drive, maybe someday I will visit to get the experience, a taste. I think the best way to discern between conservative and liberal theology would be in doctrinal statements and outside of Scripture, most authoritatively in the historical creeds and confessions. However, over time and listening to teachers within a Church the subtleties of their personal leanings be they towards conservative or liberal theology may become apparent.
 
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gordonhooker

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My point is that if an Anglican clergyman can reject original sin, this means that you can get away with quite a bit within Anglicanism these days!

I am not clergy in the Anglican Church I am a Lay Preacher and as I said in an earlier comment I would not preach anything that was against the 39 Articles or the Canon of the Anglican Church of Australia. My personal view on Augustines theology of Original Sin and its misuse over the years is my own view not the view of the Anglican Church of Australia. When I write on this forum I am writing as an individual not a spokesman for the Anglican Church of Australia.
 
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Si_monfaith

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Below are 5 common misconceptions about Calvinism. Please post either in either pro or anti arguments on any of these 5 misconceptions. (yes, they are all misconceptions)

1. It kills evangelism

2. It is a man-made doctrine

3. It eliminates free will and human responsibility

4. It promotes “easy believism”

5. It makes God a moral monster
1. It kills evangelism: Calvinists expect the elect to be saved. Noncalvies evangelise expecting those who might never respond and thus waste time, money etc.

2. It is a man-made doctrine: Calvinism gives excellent Scriptural proofs.

3. It eliminates free will and human responsibility: Noncalvies fail to understand the difference between causal will and instrumental will.

4. It promotes “easy believism”: Calvinism believes faith is God's gift. There's nothing called easy believism.

5. It makes God a moral monster: Noncalvies disbelieve in God's purpose behind all His actions. So they accuse so.
 
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Si_monfaith

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I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the teachings of John Calvin come out of the Sardisean age... And the Lord gives his input on the Salvation doctrines...

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3

So, according to Christ Jesus it is possible to have ones name blotted out of the book of life... Which scripture also proves Calvinism false.
God does not change. Malachi 3:6. Neither does He blot nor does He add anew.

He appears to change as He speaks in the level of revelation humans have.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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My point is that if an Anglican clergyman can reject original sin, this means that you can get away with quite a bit within Anglicanism these days!
If, as is the case some say , God Himself reveals to His children that they reject 'original sin' teachings and dogmas and practices related to it (interwoven in or with it),
then
His children, if they are faithful in their testimony and unwavering in their faith in Him
will not try to "get away with quite a bit" in any group they are in -

they will simply tell what God has shown them,

no matter what the consequences...

as written throughout Scripture.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="rockytopva, post: ]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the teachings of John Calvin come out of the Sardisean age... And the Lord gives his input on the Salvation doctrines...

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3

So, according to Christ Jesus it is possible to have ones name blotted out of the book of life... Which scripture also proves Calvinism false.[/QUOT
E

True, and they (and others likewise proven false), do not like this.
 
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Si_monfaith

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If, as is the case some say , God Himself reveals to His children that they reject 'original sin' teachings and dogmas and practices related to it (interwoven in or with it),
then
His children, if they are faithful in their testimony and unwavering in their faith in Him
will not try to "get away with quite a bit" in any group they are in -

they will simply tell what God has shown them,

no matter what the consequences...

as written throughout Scripture.
Who bound humans under the power called sin which makes them commit acts of sin as per Galatians 3:22 and Romans 7: 20?
 
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redleghunter

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I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the teachings of John Calvin come out of the Sardisean age... And the Lord gives his input on the Salvation doctrines...

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3

So, according to Christ Jesus it is possible to have ones name blotted out of the book of life... Which scripture also proves Calvinism false.
Semper Reformanda brother!

And of course, Soli Deo Gloria!
 
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Si_monfaith

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QUOTE="rockytopva, post: ]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

In which the teachings of John Calvin come out of the Sardisean age... And the Lord gives his input on the Salvation doctrines...

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3

So, according to Christ Jesus it is possible to have ones name blotted out of the book of life... Which scripture also proves Calvinism false.[/QUOT
E

True, and they (and others likewise proven false), do not like this.
If names could be blotted out, why would Lord Jesus tell His disciples to rejoice at their names having been written? What if they stop believing in the future? Did the Lord's exhortation to rejoice a meaningless one?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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There are multitudes today 'rejoicing' who don't make it, but they don't realize this until Jesus tells them
Matthew 7:21 English Standard Version (ESV)

'I Never Knew You'
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
 
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Below are 5 common misconceptions about Calvinism. Please post either in either pro or anti arguments on any of these 5 misconceptions. (yes, they are all misconceptions)

1. It kills evangelism

History proves this common misconception wrong. By simply considering America's "Great Awakening" and the leaders of this evangelistic movement, two primary leaders that are mentioned in American history textbooks are Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield, both were Calvinists. Another Calvinist that comes to mind is C.H. Spurgeon, given by some the title the "Prince of Preachers", and he was very much concerned with "winning souls" to Christ. It would not require much investigation to realize the centrality of the Gospel in Spurgeon's ministry. Another Calvinist evangelical from the past whom comes to mind is A.T. Pierson, but he is not as well known or discussed as others. Nevertheless he is just as important especially to the history of evangelicalism, he should be recognized by evangelicals, but he is all but forgotten. If I may, would like to quote just a portion about him from wikipedia, which I think amply makes the point in disproving "it kills evangelism":

"Arthur Tappan Pierson (March 6, 1837 – June 3, 1911) was an American Presbyterian pastor, Christian leader, missionary and writer who preached over 13,000 sermons, wrote over fifty books, and gave Bible lectures as part of a transatlantic preaching ministry that made him famous in Scotland, England, and Korea. He was a consulting editor for the original "Scofield Reference Bible" (1909) for his friend, C. I. Scofield and was also a friend of D. L. Moody, George Müller (whose biography 'George Muller of Bristol' he wrote), Adoniram Judson Gordon, and C. H. Spurgeon, whom he succeeded in the pulpit of the Metropolitan Tabernacle, London, from 1891 to 1893. Throughout his career, Pierson filled several pulpit positions around the world as an urban pastor who cared passionately for the poor.

Pierson was also a pioneer advocate of faith missions who was determined to see the world evangelized in his generation. Prior to 1870, there had been only about 2000 missionaries from the United States in full-time service, roughly ten percent of whom had engaged in work among Native Americans. A great movement of foreign missions began in the 1880s and accelerated into the 20th century, in some measure due to the work of Pierson.[1] He acted as the elder statesman of the student missionary movement and was the leading evangelical advocate of foreign missions in the late 19th century."
If Calvinism kills evangelism, it should have killed the desire in the men mentioned here. None of these men were of average or below average intelligence. It cannot be said they were ignorant (I challenge anyone to read Pierson, it will be humbling), such that they knew Calvinism kills evangelism but charged full speed against what they knew. Neither do I think God would have blessed their testimony and witness in the manner He did if that were the case. History has been quite generous, merciful, and kind to Calvinists in general, because God is the sovereign Lord of history, and we can be sure He will make sure His people are victorious against the evil one leaving traces of the sovereignty of God behind them like a spectacle or cloud of witnesses to us to future generations.
 
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