Five Misconceptions About Calvinism

[Meowzltov]

So no?

no what?

 

[Meowzltov]

If you read the whole thing as intended, you'll see his point. Regeneration precedes faith. You shouldn't take things out of context.

If regeneration precedes faith, then its regeneration against the will, which is the same thing as worn down.

I'm done with this. As far as I'm concerned, you are weaseling. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Meowzltov]

1. Is man capable of responding to grace, cooperating with God on his own? In other words, do we still have some good in us?
My guess is that you will say no.
Matthew 12:34
Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

2. Does God choose who is elect based on something we do such as have faith?
My guess is that you will say no.
Romans 9:11
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),

3. Did God send his son to die for the whole world, which he loved?
My guess is that you will say no.
John 10:7
[ Jesus the Good Shepherd ] Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:8
All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
John 10:11
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

The sheep are all over the world and Caiaphas prophesied they are the children of God for whom Christ had to die to bring them together under one Good Shepherd.
John 11:48-52 New King James Version (NKJV)
48 If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.”

49 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.” 51 Now this he did not say on his own authority;but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

4. Does a man have the free will to turn down the Holy Spirit and grace and go to hell?
My guess is that you will say no.
It is not of our will that we come to Christ, it is of His will that we come to Christ, and so those who do come to Christ do so because it was His will that they come.

John 5:40
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
John 6
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
5. Can the elect ever become a not-elect-any-more?
My guess is that you will say no.
Jude 1
Greeting to the Called
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

You did not follow instructions. You 1. did not answer yes/no and 2. did not put it into your own words. Therefore I didn't even bother reading your post.

 

[Hammster]

no what?

No scriptural support.

 

[Hammster]

If regeneration precedes faith, then its regeneration against the will, which is the same thing as worn down.

I'm done with this. As far as I'm concerned, you are weaseling. Call a spade a spade.

Okay.

 

[sdowney717]

You did not follow instructions. You 1. did not answer yes/no and 2. did not put it into your own words. Therefore I didn't even bother reading your post.

It does not matter if you read it or not, Others have.
I am not out to convince you of anything, but just to defend the faith, once for all time delivered to the saints'. You will know them by their fruits, out of the hearth the mouth speaks or types on a forum. And if you type so much stuff contrary to the scriptures, then how is this good fruit? A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. So by their fruits you will know them. People who are contrary to what the scripture says makes me wonder if they have been regenerated-born of God at all or have been captured by the devil to do his will. Only God can grant repentance for someone to come to their senses and know the truth.

 

[EmSw]

It does not matter if you read it or not, Others have.
I am not out to convince you of anything, but just to defend the faith, once for all time delivered to the saints'. You will know them by their fruits, out of the hearth the mouth speaks or types on a forum. And if you type so much stuff contrary to the scriptures, then how is this good fruit? A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. So by their fruits you will know them. People who are contrary to what the scripture says makes me wonder if they have been regenerated-born of God at all or have been captured by the devil to do his will. Only God can grant repentance for someone to come to their senses and know the truth.

So, did you obey Jesus, so He could be the Author of your eternal salvation?

 

[sdowney717]

So, did you obey Jesus, so He could be the Author of your eternal salvation?

People who speak contrary to scripture, speak evil against the truth and only are speaking of what they know naturally, not spiritually, because they are naturally minded not spiritually minded.
They are of the flesh and not of the Spirit of God. They corrupt themselves. They do not know God and Christ, they are not born of God, so they can not know, receive or believe the truth, but fight against the truth, they resist the Holy Spirit.

Jude
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15New King James Version (NKJV)
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

 

[sdowney717]

I believe God makes provisions for those who have no chance to hear the Gospel. But I also believe that we should do what we can reasonably do to give people opportunity to hear the Gospel. And again, you have no idea of what concepts I hold, what I know, what I think, what I believe other than what I have shown you here. Insulting me doesn't win you any points in the debate.

Provision? The provision of hell if they do not believe in Christ.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well there you have it, God says none seek Him, and you say as far as it is properly interpreted...
God says those He foreknew He predestined, and you don't believe any of it.
Maybe the words are just poetry to you?

No, I just interpret it differently than the Calvinists do.

 

[Foxfyre]

Provision? The provision of hell if they do not believe in Christ.

I'm sorry, but I just believe in a loving God who is not unjust and who doesn't create something wonderful just to put it through its paces, torment, even torture, and then destroy it. And I think we are commanded to love and to be honorable, just, and do good to others. I believe many passages are intended for a specific issue/situation and not intended to be taken literally for all even if universal truths are to be found in the teaching.

The Calvinists in this thread have made it abundantly clear that I am unworthy to even comment on this and that I understand nothing. And that's okay. God loves them too.

 

[EmSw]

People who speak contrary to scripture, speak evil against the truth and only are speaking of what they know naturally, not spiritually, because they are naturally minded not spiritually minded.
They are of the flesh and not of the Spirit of God. They corrupt themselves. They do not know God and Christ, they are not born of God, so they can not know, receive or believe the truth, but fight against the truth, they resist the Holy Spirit.

Jude
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15New King James Version (NKJV)
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

Did you say all that to say you didn't obey Jesus to become the Author of your eternal salvation?

 

[sdowney717]

I'm sorry, but I just believe in a loving God who is not unjust and who doesn't create something wonderful just to put it through its paces, torment, even torture, and then destroy it. And I think we are commanded to love and to be honorable, just, and do good to others. I believe many passages are intended for a specific issue/situation and not intended to be taken literally for all even if universal truths are to be found in the teaching.

The Calvinists in this thread have made it abundantly clear that I am unworthy to even comment on this and that I understand nothing. And that's okay. God loves them too.

Read the parable of the tares and the wheat, also Christ explained it privately.
God does not plant the tares, God did plant the wheat. Plenty like you blame calvinism for teaching God planted the tares. Everyone born sins and are the tares by their nature, only Christ can plant you as the wheat in the field which is this world. He does that by making you born again.

A wheat planting is a brand new creation in Christ, the old tare no longer exists.
2 Corinthians 5:17

• New International Version
  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
  
  
• New King James Version
  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

If Christ does not set you free, planting you as the wheat, then you are a tare, planted by Satan, having Satan as your spiritual father and not God. You're DEAD in your sins and you are following Satan and desiring to do Satan's will.

Ephesians 2:1-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

 

[EmSw]

Well there you have it, God says none seek Him, and you say as far as it is properly interpreted...

sdowney, why do you not agree with me? I DID seek God, I AM seeking God, and I WILL ALWAYS seek God.

How does your theology deal with that?

 

[EmSw]

Read the parable of the tares and the wheat, also Christ explained it privately.
God does not plant the tares, God did plant the wheat. Plenty like you blame calvinism for teaching God planted the tares. Everyone born sins and are the tares by their nature, only Christ can plant you as the wheat in the field which is this world. He does that by making you born again.

A wheat planting is a brand new creation in Christ, the old tare no longer exists.
2 Corinthians 5:17

• New International Version
  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
  
  
• New King James Version
  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

If Christ does not set you free, planting you as the wheat, then you are a tare, planted by Satan, having Satan as your spiritual father and not God. You're DEAD in your sins and you are following Satan and desiring to do Satan's will.

Ephesians 2:1-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

So sdowney, in your total depravity, when you were dead in sin, walking according the the devil, being a son of disobedience, living in the lusts of your flesh, indulging in the desires of your flesh, and a child of wrath, were you a tare? Who planted you to live in your total depravity?

 

[sdowney717]

sdowney, why do you not agree with me? I DID seek God, I AM seeking God, and I WILL ALWAYS seek God.

How does your theology deal with that?

You don't believe what Paul wrote into the scriptures?

Romans 3
9 What then? [g]Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”

So yes, Paul properly points out no one seeks for God, all have turned away.
Paul has already charged that all are under sin.

It is God's grace mercy and great love that saved you as Paul rightly describes in Ephesians 2, this is NOT of yourselves, it is the gift of God, salvation is a gift, you did not seek, it was given to you, you did not ask to be born of God, God simply made you born of God by His choice.

Once your a child of God, then you can and do receive spiritual things of God.
Otherwise it is just foolishness to you.

 

[Foxfyre]

Read the parable of the tares and the wheat, also Christ explained it privately.
God does not plant the tares, God did plant the wheat. Plenty like you blame calvinism for teaching God planted the tares. Everyone born sins and are the tares by their nature, only Christ can plant you as the wheat in the field which is this world. He does that by making you born again.

A wheat planting is a brand new creation in Christ, the old tare no longer exists.
2 Corinthians 5:17

• New International Version
  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
  
  
• New King James Version
  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

If Christ does not set you free, planting you as the wheat, then you are a tare, planted by Satan, having Satan as your spiritual father and not God. You're DEAD in your sins and you are following Satan and desiring to do Satan's will.

Ephesians 2:1-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

So where did the tares come from? I am not aware that Calvinism teaches that there are dual gods, dual Creators.

 

[EmSw]

You don't believe what Paul wrote into the scriptures?

Romans 3
9 What then? [g]Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”

So yes, Paul properly points out no one seeks for God, all have turned away.
Paul has already charged that all are under sin.

It is God's grace mercy and great love that saved you as Paul rightly describes in Ephesians 2, this is NOT of yourselves, it is the gift of God, salvation is a gift, you did not seek, it was given to you, you did not ask to be born of God, God simply made you born of God by His choice.

Once your a child of God, then you can and do receive spiritual things of God.
Otherwise it is just foolishness to you.

Why don't you read what David said in context? Shall we see about whom David was speaking?

The very first verse of Psalm 14 tells us.

1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.

These fools are corrupt, do abominable works, and none of them do good. God looked down upon the children of men, and not upon His children, to see if any understand and seek God.

All these fools became (not born) filthy, did no good, no, not one of them. In fact, these fools have no knowledge and EAT UP GOD'S PEOPLE (those who did not say in their hearts, there is no God).

So we have two groups of people mentioned here, the fools and God's people. If you are going to make a doctrine, keep it in context.

 

[sdowney717]

So where did the tares come from? I am not aware that Calvinism teaches that there are dual gods, dual Creators.

You must not agree with the doctrine of original sin, or that all have sinned?

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Afterbirth, once you sin, you are become of Satan because you desire to be like Satan and do the things Satan does. Satan was the first sinner. Satan is the tempter, and tempted Eve, so Satan's sin must have come before. Satan is totally corrupt.
Jesus identifies people as having Satan or God as their father, or gardener... Regarding tares, Jesus says Satan plants the tares. And the Son of Man, Christ plants the wheat. Somehow you think this is dualism?.
Unless God actively chooses to redeem you, your going to remain sinful and of Satan, you will share Satan's desires and Satan's fate.

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

 

[EmSw]

Afterbirth, once you sin, you are become of Satan because you desire to be like Satan and do the things Satan does. Satan was the first sinner. Satan is the tempter, and tempted Eve, so Satan's sin must have come before. Satan is totally corrupt.
Jesus identifies people as having Satan or God as their father, or gardener... Regarding tares, Jesus says Satan plants the tares. And the Son of Man, Christ plants the wheat. Somehow you think this is dualism?.
Unless God actively chooses to redeem you, your going to remain sinful and of Satan, you will share Satan's desires and Satan's fate.

There you said it sdowney. You were a tare, you were a goat. You said you were a child of satan.

What wheat does Jesus plant, if everyone is born of satan?