Few will be saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

I've put my money on a gospel which makes provision for our defeating sin by giving us the sealing Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and lead us into a life of righteous living - while making provision for when we fail.

I am not against believers who honestly stumble into sin (Especially in their early walk with God) and then repent of it (i.e. they confess their sin with the intention of turning away from it). But a believer matures and they no longer just stick with the milk of the Word. They move on to the meat of the Word (that is solid). They do not make excuses for being a slave to sin in this life.

As for the seal of God:

What is the condition of having the seal of God?

Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).

In fact, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).

You folks can put your money on a gospel which makes no provision for sins and removes the Holy Spirit with whom we were sealed if we do sin.

We'll see which of us is reckoned to have had in their life the assurance of the hope of salvation when we meet Him face to face.

You said, "A gospel which makes no provision for sins."
My reply: Okay. First, that just sounds wrong.
Second, that is not what the gospel is for.
The purpose of the gospel is to lead you into living righteously.
How so?

Well, Scripture says Christ gave Himself for the purpose so as to sanctify the church (us) and to make it holy and without blemish (Ephesians 5:25-27) and to redeem us from all iniquity and make us zealous of good works (Titus 2:14). The purpose of the gospel is not so that we can continue in sin. Yes, there can be grace and forgiveness, but Paul says sin shall not have dominion over us believers.

And don't bother to say that anyone here is condoning sin in any way or saying that there are not consequences for when we do sin.

The Bible teaches that we can overcome sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. 1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, and 1 Peter 4:2 says that he should live the rest of his time to the will of God and not to the lusts of the flesh. 2 Corinthians 7:1 says we are to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Your view really does not line up with these verses (among many others).

The iniquity which will keep them from ever being known by Christ is the sin of preaching and believing another gospel - which is in reality no gospel at all.

It is written...

12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel."
(2 Thessalonians 2:12-14).

Good luck in your quest for salvation.

Salvation is in abiding in Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12).
A person can have an assurance of their salvation if they find that they are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). One is not really genuinely keeping his commandments if they are planning on breaking them at some unknown future date again because of an erroneous belief that they are a slave to their own sin.

As for me - "I know whom I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against that day."

But wouldn't God have to agree with your idea or plan of salvation that says you can sin again in the future and yet still be saved? Would not God have to agree with sin in order for this plan of salvation to work?

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

A few will. Why do you think different from what is plainly stated in Scripture.
Or
to put it more simply, who told you that people will repent, when the Bible says that most will refuse to repent.
Even Jesus Confirms that most never find the road to life.

Oh they will refuse and do today refuse to repent. And they do that as long and as hard as they can get away with it.

Still, you need to step back, you are not understanding what I am saying.

This Day is a Day of Great Darkness and Dread....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've put my money on a gospel which makes provision for our defeating sin by giving us the sealing Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and lead us into a life of righteous living - while making provision for when we fail.

You folks can put your money on a gospel which makes no provision for sins and removes the Holy Spirit with whom we were sealed if we do sin.

We'll see which of us is reckoned to have had in their life the assurance of the hope of salvation when we meet Him face to face.

And don't bother to say that anyone here is condoning sin in any way or saying that there are not consequences for when we do sin.

The iniquity which will keep them from ever being known by Christ is the sin of preaching and believing another gospel - which is in reality no gospel at all.

Good luck in your quest for salvation.

As for me - "I know whom I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against that day."

Also, you never really addressed the verses I posted in post #192.
What do you think they are saying?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've put my money on a gospel which makes provision for our defeating sin by giving us the sealing Holy Spirit to convict us of sin and lead us into a life of righteous living - while making provision for when we fail.

You folks can put your money on a gospel which makes no provision for sins and removes the Holy Spirit with whom we were sealed if we do sin.

We'll see which of us is reckoned to have had in their life the assurance of the hope of salvation when we meet Him face to face.

And don't bother to say that anyone here is condoning sin in any way or saying that there are not consequences for when we do sin.

The iniquity which will keep them from ever being known by Christ is the sin of preaching and believing another gospel - which is in reality no gospel at all.

Good luck in your quest for salvation.

As for me - "I know whom I have believed and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against that day."

Also, how do you reconcile 1 John 2:3-4 with your out of context interpretation on 1 John 1:8?

What do you think 1 John 2:3-4 is saying?

Also, 1 John 1:9 says we can be cleansed from ALL unrighteousnes. How can one be cleansed of all unrighteousness if they are also always in some kind of sin according to your view on 1 John 1:8?

 

[ClementofA]

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14

Matthew wrote of "few" finding it. Paul says "many" will (Rom.5:18-19). Who is wrong? How to harmonize?

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

Answer:

Matthew was speaking in the present tense (not final destiny)

Paul was speaking in the future tense (final destiny).

Also Paul was teaching universalism. The "many" in v.19 is a Hebraism meaning all. Just as Jesus says He would give His life a ransom for "many" (Mk.10:45) which Paul says is "all" people (1 Tim.2:4-6).

--------------------------


1 Jn.2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If God doesn't save all, is it because He can't or doesn't want to?
"...it doesn't say what most evangelizers of hopelessness want it to say in that regard either."
"It is false, he maintained, to translate that phrase as "everlasting punishment," introducing into the New Testament the concept found in the Islamic Quran that God is going to torture the wicked forever."

"...non-Christians are punished forever for not recieving grace, which doesn't seem very graceful to me."

Forum
Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism
https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Love Wins Because God Is Love… | For Whom nothing is impossible…Love NEVER Fails!

 

[Marvin Knox]

But wouldn't God have to agree with your idea or plan of salvation that says you can sin again in the future and yet still be saved?

Yes.

Would not God have to agree with sin in order for this plan of salvation to work?

No.

I'd love to believe that the net of salvation God casts is so wide that it includes all of the cults and those who have just a vague idea of grace.

Sadly, I do not believe that to be the case. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

I believe there will be many who'll fall short of the grace of God. I doubt very much that their falling short will be, in most cases, because they did not have a particular doctrine exactly right - even a doctrine like the Trinity (as important as it is).

I believe the most important dividing line will be whether or not they believed that their self righteousness played a part in their standing before God or if they trusted solely on the imputed righteousness of Christ for that salvation.

There is a way which seems right to men. But the end is the way of death.

I sincerely wish you all the best with your religion.

I hope to see you on the other side of this life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Oh they will refuse and do today refuse to repent. And they do that as long and as hard as they can get away with it.

Still, you need to step back, you are not understanding what I am saying.

This Day is a Day of Great Darkness and Dread....

Clearly, you have contradicted Scripture. I understand.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Matthew wrote of "few" finding it. Paul says "many" will (Rom.5:18-19). Who is wrong? How to harmonize?

All Scripture is TRUTH.

Do you honestly not realize how Matthew and Paul are both faithful to Jesus and teaching what He taught them !?

p.s. edit in: not as you posted, btw, following the above quote...

 

[1stcenturylady]

I believe when God opens the gates, there will be people that will be there we didn't expect, and there will be people that won't be there we thought would be.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes.

No.

Contradiction. The first question is the same as the second question.

I'd love to believe that the net of salvation God casts is so wide that it includes all of the cults and those who have just a vague idea of grace.

No cult here. I just believe the Bible. Titus 2:11-12 says the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness. Yet, you want me to believe that we do not have to deny ungodliness because you think we will always sin at some point in the future.

Sadly, I do not believe that to be the case. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

You mean, you do not know?
I know for sure what Scripture says in regards to Soteriology.

I believe there will be many who'll fall short of the grace of God. I doubt very much that their falling short will be, in most cases, because they did not have a particular doctrine exactly right - even a doctrine like the Trinity (as important as it is).

A person can be saved on their death bed not knowing about the Trinity. The problem only arises if they deny the teaching of the Trinity, once that truth from Scripture is revealed to them.

As for falling short of the grace of God: If you are to assume that Romans 3 is saying that we all have fallen short every waking moment of our entire lives as believers, then you must also conclude that we as believers are without understanding and do not seek after God, too (See Romans 3:11).

I believe the most important dividing line will be whether or not they believed that their self righteousness played a part in their standing before God or if they trusted solely on the imputed righteousness of Christ for that salvation.

1 John 1:7 says,
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

5 "God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:5-11).

There is a way which seems right to men. But the end is the way of death.

A few verses down, it says this,

"A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil..." (Proverbs 14:16).

Proverbs also says,

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13).

I sincerely wish you all the best with your religion.

I follow God's Word and Jesus Christ.
For what good work will Christ condemn me for?
I would rather be doing what the Lord says, then trying to make excuses in not obeying Him.
For Jesus says, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say?
Jesus says you cannot serve two masters.

I hope to see you on the other side of this life.

Everyone will be at the judgment. Whether we see each other is up to God.

 

[Gottservant]

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

Did he mean "relatively" few? Relative to "what could have been saved"?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Did he mean "relatively" few? Relative to "what could have been saved"?

There's a possibility at least, due to conditions beyond the scope of this thread,
that they could not have been saved. (according to english language usage and meanings)...

Also, perhaps in the Hebrew/ Aramaic/ or Greek language there is a much fuller and richer meaning (as is often the case) than is seen in english language and teachings and life. Simple enough for a 3 to 6 year old to understand, but beyond the grasp of scholars.... (as Jesus puts it)

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Clearly, you have contradicted Scripture. I understand.

Okay, when something looks like a contradiction, you have to step back and examine it more closely.

But, again, I do not think you understand what I am saying. It is hard to understand.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Okay, when something looks like a contradiction, you have to step back and examine it more closely.

But, again, I do not think you understand what I am saying. It is hard to understand.

Dream on in what? Never can be true land ? See - you cannot support your position since it is opposed to Scripture. Something like universal salvation isn't it ? or "don't worry" you can be saved later ? Perhaps you'd like to clarify, especially if it is different from this, though it seems clear enough already .....

There's no hope apart from Jesus.

There's no hope opposed to Scripture.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Dream on in what? Never can be true land ? See - you cannot support your position since it is opposed to Scripture. Something like universal salvation isn't it ? or "don't worry" you can be saved later ? Perhaps you'd like to clarify, especially if it is different from this, though it seems clear enough already .....

There's no hope apart from Jesus.

There's no hope opposed to Scripture.

Sorry, "dream on in what"? What do you mean?

You are not getting what I am saying. I am stating that God can always save people. Regardless of how bad it looks.

Do you want for the vast majority of the world to burn forever in eternal hell?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You are not getting what I am saying. I am stating that God can always save people. Regardless of how bad it looks.

Yes, I got that from the start - it was obvious what you were posting. And it is false - it is directly opposed to His Word.

 

[Geralt]

it is not nor will ever be a 'membership' or 'affiliate' salvation.

even those who bow down before idols and images call or classify themselves as 'christians'.

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

 

[Adstar]

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

Most christian churches believe in a works salvation religion in different variations..

Very few actually believe Jesus and trust 100% in the Atonement He secured on the cross for their salvation..

Most of them add works into their salvation blend...

So yes Jesus is right,, As always..

 

[he-man]

Jesus always presented the Kingdom of God as a mixture of true saving faith and something else - which is not saving faith. In one case He likened the Kingdom to a simple little mustard seed which grew into a monstrosity of a tree - so big that the birds of the air (a type of evil in the scriptures) perched in it's branches. Many of those birds will be cardinals if I'm not mistaken. But - be that as it may - we are told to let the tree grow, let the birds perch and let the weeds grow until He comes again. Many will say to Him on the day of judgment, "Lord, Lord". He will tell them that He "never" knew them. They will be speechless when that happens - never having had any insight into the fact that they did not have saving faith even though they had done many good works, and even miracles, in His name. Narrow is the way which leads to life and few there are that find it. To rest in the work of Christ on our behalf "only" for our hope of salvation is not the way which seems right to religious men. To have "assurance" of things hoped for (the definition of faith) based on Christ's work only is the way to salvation. Read through the soteriology portion of this forum to see just how many do not understand that amazingly simple gospel.

Matthew 20:16 Thus will be the last first, and the first last. For many are called but few chosen [ABP+]. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few chosen. Are there few that will be saved? [ει ολιγοι ηοι σοζομενοι] -It was the prevalent opinion among the Jews that few would enter into the Kingdom. As but two of all the hosts that came out of Egypt entered into the land of promise, so some of them maintained that a proportionally small number would enter the Kingdom. [Lightfoot]. Luke 13:23"...many will seek to enter and will not be able [ABP+].
Not only would the multitude not enter in, but many rejecting the gate, would desire to enter into the Kingdom and not to be able. And, moreover, when once the master of the house has risen up, and the door was shut, it would be too late. He would say unto them, 'I know you not, or whence you are". [DARBY]

 

[Marvin Knox]

Contradiction. The first question is the same as the second question.

Here they are for all to see. They are obviously not the same. One has to do with God agreeing to a certain plan of salvation. The other has to do with God agreeing with sin.
Jason0047 said: ↑
But wouldn't God have to agree with your idea or plan of salvation that says you can sin again in the future and yet still be saved?
Marvin said: Yes.
Jason0047 said: ↑
Would not God have to agree with sin in order for this plan of salvation to work?
Marvin said: No.

Everyone will be at the judgment. Whether we see each other is up to God.

God's decision will depend on which persons have their life hidden in Jesus Christ and which are presenting their own righteousness as a means of commending themselves to God for salvation.

"The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:11-14

As I said before -
"I sincerely wish you all the best with your religion."