Feminism

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Today show ratings have not been lower with Hoda Kotb ... then they were with Matt Lauer ...

NBC's 'Today Show' Ratings Soaring Without Matt Lauer

if that's the case then she will be able to negotiate for higher pay when her contract is up.

These actors were all in the same movies with Jennifer Lawrence ...

and did they go see these movies for jennifer lawrence or these other actors? how have movie revenues been when she is in a movie without these unnamed male actors?

 

[A_Thinker]

if that's the case then she will be able to negotiate for higher pay when her contract is up.


and did they go see these movies for jennifer lawrence or these other actors? how have movie revenues been when she is in a movie without these unnamed male actors?

It's not just Jennifer Lawrence. It's across the board.

Actresses make significantly less ... than their male counterparts ...

11 of the most alarming examples of Hollywood's gender pay gap

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Something must be wrong with my browser, it shows you mentioning pregnancy first.

But you brought this up, a direct reference to the next generation.

When women are pregnant, they are not producing anything of value.

Whole different subject.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

One would think us men would get tired from constantly patting ourselves on the back.

I don't.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's an odd social order considering the New Testament highly values celibacy.

I never got that from the NT.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

It's not just Jennifer Lawrence. It's across the board.

Actresses make significantly less ... than their male counterparts ...

11 of the most alarming examples of Hollywood's gender pay gap

yet again, same examples.

let's say you have a show where you got 4 guys on a panel. the shows rating are average. one of the guys attempts to negotiate for higher pay and is denied so he leaves. they go out to find a replacement and find a guy who is pretty popular and has been successful on other shows. they bring him on the show and the rating increase significantly. he makes twice as much as the other guys on the panel. why? because he brings more eyeballs to the show. that's how it works, bud.

your examples are women who are with well-known highly successful A-list actors. they're not getting paid more because they're men, they're getting paid more because of their success in attracting viewership versus women who have not done as well. it's like people who blamed sexism because the new ghostbusters movie tanked.

 

[ChicanaRose]

How do you define pro-women?

As celebrating diversity among women. The feminists often stigmatize women who choose to stay home to take care of their families as:

a. "Wasting" their opportunities, education, and skills;
b. Being a poor career role models for their children;
c. Failing to contribute to society.

Pro-women movement would support women's freedom to choose between work and home.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

another thing to point out is do these women know how to negotiate contracts?

if they're generating as much money for the films they star in as the males why are they not asking for more money? the men don't get the contracts they get just because they're males or even for their performances. they get it because they leverage their value in order to get studios to pay them more. there are numerous examples of actors refusing jobs and striking out on work in order to get a higher pay out.

 

[Silmarien]

Can you expound on that? How do you address the subject as a believer and what are the pitfalls you feel we should avoid?

Sure. I think one of the major issues is autonomy in general, since there's a very serious difference between the way the secular and Christian worlds approach the notion of freedom. Christianity obviously involves a ton of paradoxes when it comes to identity and the self (you gain your freedom by abandoning it, etc.), whereas the secular focus is far more subjectivist: everyone is ultimately the master of their own destiny.

Feminism in particular has many, many deep-set issues with the notion of submission, which I think is both helpful and harmful in the Christian context. Helpful, because it is not actually that hard to turn the Christian ideal of voluntary submission and self-sacrifice into a tool for oppression, and we should be aware of the way that systematic oppression works. Harmful, because feminists will often turn this sort of analysis against theology itself and frame God as the ultimate oppressive patriarchal figure. I've even seen some Christian feminist theologians go down this route, and it strikes me as both idolatrous and kind of myopic. Submission in the sacred and secular contexts are very different things, and we shouldn't conflate them. (Unfortunately, when it comes to church hierarchies, this can be easier said than done.)

I think feminism is often very reductionistic when it addresses these sorts of issues, and that a lot of it doesn't really work in the Christian context, where elements of what I'd consider traditionally "passive" femininity are actually recast as the ideal for all of humanity instead of being devalued. I'm not sure that's something that gets discussed much by anyone, though.

 

[zephcom]

yet again, same examples.

let's say you have a show where you got 4 guys on a panel. the shows rating are average. one of the guys attempts to negotiate for higher pay and is denied so he leaves. they go out to find a replacement and find a guy who is pretty popular and has been successful on other shows. they bring him on the show and the rating increase significantly. he makes twice as much as the other guys on the panel. why? because he brings more eyeballs to the show. that's how it works, bud.

your examples are women who are with well-known highly successful A-list actors. they're not getting paid more because they're men, they're getting paid more because of their success in attracting viewership versus women who have not done as well. it's like people who blamed sexism because the new ghostbusters movie tanked.

U.S. women's soccer equal pay fight: What's the latest, and what's next?

Women more successful, men higher pay.

 

[Chris V++]

I think men and women should exhibit godliness to one another. Do you agree that women dislike each other?

I think I've observed women casually verbally bully each other, maybe to assert dominance. My wife complains that whenever she meets someone new she gets 'looked up and down' (assessed of shoes, clothes, hair, nails etc) A lot of women I knew in college said they had better platonic friendships with men.

And if that’s true, why do they resent when men behave the same (in your opinion)?

This probably sounds sexist or cliche but younger women seem to be more attracted to men who treat them poorly. Maybe they want a challenge or a project, or maybe they perceive the 'treat you like dirt' quality in a man as confidence or strength, and maybe that makes that bad boy, subliminally at least, a better choice for a potential mate? Hence the expression 'nice guys finish last.'

Women tend not to respect guys who let themselves get hen pecked.

And if that’s true, why do they resent when men behave the same (in your opinion)?

Maybe it's because everyone is constantly being told that all men are the enemy.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Women more successful, men higher pay.

what are the viewership ratings for women's soccer compared to men's soccer?

 

[zephcom]

what are the viewership ratings for women's soccer compared to men's soccer?

Look it up.

Oh all right. Here is what I found:

US viewership of the 2019 Women's World Cup final was 22% higher than the 2018 men's final

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Look it up.

you look it up,

you made the claim that there is a gender pay gap, you provide the evidence to support it.

 

[zephcom]

you look it up,

you made the claim that there is a gender pay gap, you provide the evidence to support it.

I edited my other post.

US viewership of the 2019 Women's World Cup final was 22% higher than the 2018 men's final

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I edited my other post.

US viewership of the 2019 Women's World Cup final was 22% higher than the 2018 men's final

looks like the success of women soccer in terms of ratings and revenue is pretty recent(within the last 5 years). if they keep it up, they have a case to get equal pay.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Feminism

versus

Pro-women

 

[zephcom]

looks like the success of women soccer in terms of ratings and revenue is pretty recent(within the last 5 years). if they keep it up, they have a case to get equal pay.

How many more years should they expect to wait for higher pay?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

How many more years should they expect to wait for higher pay?

they'll have to wait until they can equal the men's revenue and viewership worldwide and not just in the US. they're still way behind in that regard.

point of all this is that while there are pay gaps, they're because of money, not gender inequality.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Germany is hardly the only nation that has soccer as its most popular sport. It's the most popular sport of the world. I don't care much about soccer, or sports in general. But in board games, I prefer those with symmetrical balance.

I think you are taking your own bias on what is entertaining and pretend that this is some absolute law. It isn't, and the huge success of chess, go and yes, soccer proves that the vast majority of people prefer symmetrical balance, at least as far as the rules are concerned.

And I think this is one big rabbit trail from the point that you can have a balanced game with asymmetrical design.