Fellowship with Non-Adventists

awesumtenor

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2005
694
2
59
✟8,351.00
Faith
SDA
tall73 said:
That would be for all who do it.



No, sorry, the comment has implied meaning to those who see it. He was trying to take your comment seriously by giving it what he thought was the most sensible interpretation. Once you put it out there people will interpret it. Correcting the meaning is fine, but not berating those who didn't get your precise meaning when you posted something that was vague to start with.




No thanks, I chose to comment here. I posted it here to clarify an issue that happens often. If the mods wish to correct me that is fine. But you publicly took 2Tim to task for assuming, when he was trying his best to make sense of your comment. So I publicly stated that I thought you were wrong to do so. It is already a public issue. If you wish to relegate things to pm perhaps you could make your initial comment to him by pm.

Whatever... I find it interesting that you feel the need to take me to task for purportedly 'berating' 2tim for his response to me, yet you feel no similar need to take 2tim to task for calling me 'silly' ( which is far closer to berating than anything said to him ) for my responding to him...

But hey; if it makes you sleep better, I'm glad to be of assistance.

In His service,
Mr. J
 
Upvote 0

Seraph1m

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2005
466
3
In His Presence
✟15,634.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Pro 28:21 To have respect of persons [is] not good: for for a piece of bread [that] man will transgress.


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

With that said, lets get back to the OP.

I will reiterate that NOTHING in scripture even suggests that one is breaking the sabbath when in fellowship with other believers on a day other than Sabbath... It is just not there.
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
455
✟59,815.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Seraph1m said:
I will reiterate that NOTHING in scripture even suggests that one is breaking the sabbath when in fellowship with other believers on a day other than Sabbath... It is just not there.


I agree. As I said in my previous post, the early Christians in Jerusalem met every day in the temple courts. I do not believe that the Bible forbids going to church on Sunday. I guess I wouldn't do it every Sunday, though, because I wouldn't want them to think that I was going to become a regular member. I also would not take communion at a Lutheran church anymore if I had the opportunity (although I did a couple of times when I was a teenager since my dad still had Lutheran ties) because I do not agree with their beliefs on the meaning of the bread and the wine. (Just as a side note, they also had grape juice at their communion services, which were open to non-Lutherans, as an alternative for those who didn't drink wine.)

Sassy, I understand why you would feel uncomfortable, as if you were going back to where you came from. And I don't know what your earlier experience with Christianity was like apart from the doctrines that you later learned were unbiblical.

My experience, as I grew up in the Adventist Church, was somewhat different. I knew many of the correct doctrines, but I wasn't taught about having a relationship with Jesus. I wasn't taught to pray or to read the Bible regularly or anything like that although I wasn't discouraged from it either. And I wasn't taught how any of our doctrines relate to Jesus. I was taught legalism although I don't think that was really the intention of my parents; they just didn't understand what being a Christian was supposed to be about themselves. It wasn't until I was 16 and began to read the Bible myself that I actually accepted Jesus into my life in a personal way.

For me, going to other churches occasionally as a teenager was a good experience because I met people who were more spiritual and who studied the Bible more than most of my Adventist acquaintances at the time. I didn't have any Adventist friends my age because I went to public high school, and my church had pretty much no youth program during those years.

There were some awkward moments when fellowshiping with non-Adventists, such as telling people that I couldn't eat pepperoni pizza (though I wasn't a vegetarian then), but they were generally considerate of my beliefs. I was well-grounded in Adventist doctrines and not at all likely to be swayed by things that I thought were unbiblical. However, many of the people that I met in the Baptist church that I visited sometimes for church and youth group and at the Baptist summer camp that I worked at were sincere Christians even though they didn't share our beliefs about the Sabbath or the state of the dead or hell or dietary principles or whatever.

Those experiences definitely gave me a better understanding of people outside of my Adventist culture, as did attending public school, and for me that was a good thing. For those who were not raised Adventist and have left other churches, I can understand your position, and if you want to make the choice never to visit a Sunday-keeping church, you are free to do so. In general, though, I do not believe that it is wrong to visit another church on Sunday occasionally, especially if we have friends there that we would like to invite to our church. Also, I think that we would all do well to have more fellowship with other believers every day, not just on Sabbath or Sunday.
 
Upvote 0

SassySDA

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
926
19
69
OH
✟1,169.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Sophia7 said:


I agree. As I said in my previous post, the early Christians in Jerusalem met every day in the temple courts. I do not believe that the Bible forbids going to church on Sunday. I guess I wouldn't do it every Sunday, though, because I wouldn't want them to think that I was going to become a regular member. I also would not take communion at a Lutheran church anymore if I had the opportunity (although I did a couple of times when I was a teenager since my dad still had Lutheran ties) because I do not agree with their beliefs on the meaning of the bread and the wine. (Just as a side note, they also had grape juice at their communion services, which were open to non-Lutherans, as an alternative for those who didn't drink wine.)

Sassy, I understand why you would feel uncomfortable, as if you were going back to where you came from. And I don't know what your earlier experience with Christianity was like apart from the doctrines that you later learned were unbiblical.

My experience, as I grew up in the Adventist Church, was somewhat different. I knew many of the correct doctrines, but I wasn't taught about having a relationship with Jesus. I wasn't taught to pray or to read the Bible regularly or anything like that although I wasn't discouraged from it either. And I wasn't taught how any of our doctrines relate to Jesus. I was taught legalism although I don't think that was really the intention of my parents; they just didn't understand what being a Christian was supposed to be about themselves. It wasn't until I was 16 and began to read the Bible myself that I actually accepted Jesus into my life in a personal way.

For me, going to other churches occasionally as a teenager was a good experience because I met people who were more spiritual and who studied the Bible more than most of my Adventist acquaintances at the time. I didn't have any Adventist friends my age because I went to public high school, and my church had pretty much no youth program during those years.

There were some awkward moments when fellowshiping with non-Adventists, such as telling people that I couldn't eat pepperoni pizza (though I wasn't a vegetarian then), but they were generally considerate of my beliefs. I was well-grounded in Adventist doctrines and not at all likely to be swayed by things that I thought were unbiblical. However, many of the people that I met in the Baptist church that I visited sometimes for church and youth group and at the Baptist summer camp that I worked at were sincere Christians even though they didn't share our beliefs about the Sabbath or the state of the dead or hell or dietary principles or whatever.

Those experiences definitely gave me a better understanding of people outside of my Adventist culture, as did attending public school, and for me that was a good thing. For those who were not raised Adventist and have left other churches, I can understand your position, and if you want to make the choice never to visit a Sunday-keeping church, you are free to do so. In general, though, I do not believe that it is wrong to visit another church on Sunday occasionally, especially if we have friends there that we would like to invite to our church. Also, I think that we would all do well to have more fellowship with other believers every day, not just on Sabbath or Sunday.

Well said, Sophia. I didn't think I WAS saying it is a "sin" to go to church on Sunday. But...I do think it's important to set an example. As long as one has kept the Sabbath, if they wish to go to church with friends, or whathave you on Sunday, I cannot state that that would be a "sin". I do not, however, think it's all that good of an idea. It's almost like we would be saying one thing, but doing another.

I've been in plenty of other denominational churches, more than I care to count. I just have no desire to go back into what God called and told me to come out of.


I have not EVER professed to be speaking for everyone, but yet, it appears that that is how they are often taken.

I was born a baptist, I was pretty much raised a baptist. I have attended everything from Pentecostal to Churches of God, with a little bit of Methodist thrown in for flavor. I am still saddened at all that I wasn't taught at all, and all of the error I was taught and believed.

I have friends and family that are scattered along the denominational trail, I have no problem with fellowshipping with other Adventists at all. I just have no desire to go to their churches with them any longer.

God's holy day, His Sabbath is on SATURDAY, and I KNOW there is way more to it than just going to church, for those of you who think I do not. If I don't know THAT much, I have no business calling myself an Adventist. However, I do believe that it is when I should be going to worship service, and I can't show others the right way by example, if I'm going to other ones on the wrong day. Teaching by example is a much stronger way than by word. It's important, to me, to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk.

Now, notice, I am not saying that EVERYONE should feel the way that I feel about it, or that they shouldn't go to Sunday keeping churches...this is how I feel about it for MYSELF.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

PaleHorse

Veteran
Jun 1, 2005
1,405
32
55
Arkansas
Visit site
✟16,859.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
No one should "nuke" you, Sassy, for speaking from your heart. Even though I haven't walked in your shoes I can understand why you would feel this way - it's pretty obvious to me at least.

To give a extreme example; as everyone here is well aware, I used to be Wiccan. Now, I would love to be a witness for Christ to them and invite them to my visit my church. But, on the other hand, how would folks perceive it if I attended a coven's esbat? Not a very pretty picture, eh? Do I need to do such to be a "good" witness to them - do I need to do such to "bridge the gap"? No.

So, using the admittedly extreme example, I see your point completely.
 
Upvote 0

Seraph1m

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2005
466
3
In His Presence
✟15,634.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Sophia7 said:

I agree. As I said in my previous post, the early Christians in Jerusalem met every day in the temple courts. I do not believe that the Bible forbids going to church on Sunday. I guess I wouldn't do it every Sunday, though, because I wouldn't want them to think that I was going to become a regular member.

Good point regarding the early church. However, the original question was never about attending church every Sunday, thus it is not an issue of contention.
I also would not take communion at a Lutheran church anymore if I had the opportunity (although I did a couple of times when I was a teenager since my dad still had Lutheran ties) because I do not agree with their beliefs on the meaning of the bread and the wine.

Also, taking communion has never been a part of the original question. But, since you mention it, if that is how you feel that is between you and Jesus. Simply bear in mind that the only qualifications that God puts on taking communion is that we have made peace with each other, settling any issues with our fellow man before bringing our gifts to the alter. God knows our hearts therefore, there is no need to be concerned about what anyone else might think. Not to mention, our communion services are open to anyone, including those who are not members of the Adventist church If they are not members then it is likely they do not agree with our beliefs but that would not disqualify them from taking communion in an Adventist church.

Sassy, I understand why you would feel uncomfortable, as if you were going back to where you came from.
I have also stated that I agree wit this point at least twice.
My experience, as I grew up in the Adventist Church, was somewhat different. I knew many of the correct doctrines, but I wasn't taught about having a relationship with Jesus. I wasn't taught to pray or to read the Bible regularly or anything like that although I wasn't discouraged from it either. And I wasn't taught how any of our doctrines relate to Jesus. I was taught legalism although I don't think that was really the intention of my parents; they just didn't understand what being a Christian was supposed to be about themselves. It wasn't until I was 16 and began to read the Bible myself that I actually accepted Jesus into my life in a personal way.
It is a blessing to know you came to the understanding that we must all have an individual relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. What I find frightening is that after years of being in a church, Adventist or not, many do not take responsiblity for their salvation by leaning on Jesus, reading their bible for themselves and asking for understanding, which is promised to us through the Holy Spirit. To many people lean on what they hear from pastor/elder/well meaning bro, so and so. Then when they do not come to an understand that a personal "relationship" with them and Jesus is needed, they say I was not told. . Even though they had a bible of their own, pretty much the whole time, and had an opportunity to learn of Him for themselves. Knowing the words is a blessing but it is knowing the one who gave us the word that will bring us into His kingdom.
There were some awkward moments when fellowshiping with non-Adventists, such as telling people that I couldn't eat pepperoni pizza (though I wasn't a vegetarian then), but they were generally considerate of my beliefs.

Frankly, I do not tell people I can not do so and so because the reality is I can. My point is this. We do whatever we desire however, we do not desire to do certain things because we have been personlally convicted that those things are not acceptable for us.

That is a part of the issue, from where I stand. If other believers have not been convicted in their hearts about a matter we have no right to suggest that they are not doing what is right as far as their relationship goes with the Lord. We do not know where other believers are in their walk with Christ Jesus, outside of viewing the fruit they bear. So, to suggest that other believers are sinning when they may not have been personally convicted, as we have been, is condescending.

Those experiences definitely gave me a better understanding of people outside of my Adventist culture, as did attending public school, and for me that was a good thing. For those who were not raised Adventist and have left other churches, I can understand your position, and if you want to make the choice never to visit a Sunday-keeping church, you are free to do so. In general, though, I do not believe that it is wrong to visit another church on Sunday occasionally, especially if we have friends there that we would like to invite to our church.

As one who left the Baptist church many years ago, I can appreciate where you are both coming from. A number of people here have suggest that they do not see any need to cut off fellowship with friends and family members of other denominations and I agree with that. Cutting off fellowship with other believers is not required by God. I also know my salvation is not threatened if I fellowship with others, because I know in whom I believe, as it is stated in Rom 8:

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

The issue comes down to personal conviction. I simply can not agree that God commands something of us that is clearly not in His word.

Peace
 
Upvote 0

Sophia7

Tall73's Wife
Site Supporter
Sep 24, 2005
12,364
455
✟59,815.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Seraph1m said:
Frankly, I do not tell people I can not do so and so because the reality is I can. My point is this. We do whatever we desire however, we do not desire to do certain things because we have been personlally convicted that those things are not acceptable for us.

That is a part of the issue, from where I stand. If other believers have not been convicted in their hearts about a matter we have no right to suggest that they are not doing what is right as far as their relationship goes with the Lord. We do not know where other believers are in their walk with Christ Jesus, outside of viewing the fruit they bear. So, to suggest that other believers are sinning when they may not have been personally convicted, as we have been, is condescending.

I would like to clarify the fact that I never told anyone else that they were sinning. According to my beliefs at the time, I couldn't eat unclean meats (i.e. I believed that the Bible prohibited it). Now I am a vegetarian, so it's not a concern to me, and I don't even think that the clean/unclean food distinction is necessarily binding on Christians today. But that's another topic, one that has been discussed previously on the Adventist forum. And the issue did come up occasionally when I ate with non-Adventists. I didn't tell them that they couldn't do it, though, and they were very considerate of my beliefs. I mentioned that originally as an example of how even though I didn't agree with them on many things, I still enjoyed fellowship with other Christians who were not Adventists and didn't think it was wrong to do so.

Also, if we as Adventists have convictions (and we should have some) that would keep us from participating in certain activities that other Christians feel are perfectly acceptable, there is nothing wrong with explaining to them why we believe the way we do when the situation lends itself to that kind of discussion, especially when they ask us about our differences (which they inevitably do). That is not condescending, as long as we do not look down on them for not agreeing with our beliefs when they have not been convicted of them.

Finally, I mentioned the Lutheran communion thing only because that is something that I personally would feel uncomfortable with at this point in my life, not because I expect everyone else to agree with me. In that respect, I can relate to Sassy's point of view. We all have things that we are uncomfortable doing but that are not necessarily wrong for everyone else to do. On the other hand, there are absolutes, things that would clearly go against God's will for us, and I would say that PaleHorse's extreme example of worshiping with Wiccans would fit into that category, although it is not at all on the same level as going to another Christian church on Sunday.
 
Upvote 0
T

TrustAndObey

Guest
PaleHorse said:
No one should "nuke" you, Sassy, for speaking from your heart. Even though I haven't walked in your shoes I can understand why you would feel this way - it's pretty obvious to me at least.

To give a extreme example; as everyone here is well aware, I used to be Wiccan. Now, I would love to be a witness for Christ to them and invite them to my visit my church. But, on the other hand, how would folks perceive it if I attended a coven's esbat? Not a very pretty picture, eh? Do I need to do such to be a "good" witness to them - do I need to do such to "bridge the gap"? No.

So, using the admittedly extreme example, I see your point completely.

It wasn't such an "extreme" example to me. In fact, I think it's right on the money.
 
Upvote 0

2tim

Active Member
Feb 17, 2005
257
6
56
Maine, USA
✟7,888.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I liken attending worship service on Sunday, any Sunday, to drinking non-alchoholic beer at a cookout.

Will folks notice you're drinking "near beer"? Perhaps.
Will you have an opportunity to point out that you don't drink alchohol? Maybe.

But neither of these situations would have nearly the impact that simply not having anything to do with beer, "near" or otherwise would. This would stand out. It would be peculiar, in the positive sense of the word.

To glorify God is to make him obvious in our lives. Rather than get mired in a discussion about what will get us in trouble and what won't, let's talk about how much we can do (or not do) to glorify the Lord. ;)

Much love,
2Tim
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

awesumtenor

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2005
694
2
59
✟8,351.00
Faith
SDA
2tim said:
But neither of these situations would have nearly the impact that simply not having anything to do with beer, "near" or otherwise would. This would stand out. It would be peculiar, in the positive sense of the word.

The problem is that it is not anything that we do that makes us 'peculiar'. We are God's peculiar treasure solely on the basis of what God has done, not on the basis of anything we've done. One can make the argument that one should avoid 'near bear' to use your example, because we are admonished to avoid even the appearance of evil; one can argue that because "ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus" that we should walk worthy of our calling.

But the 'be peculiar' argument wrests the word, IMO.

In His service,
Mr. J
 
Upvote 0
T

TrustAndObey

Guest
StormyOne said:
Jesus was accused of hangin out with the prostitutes and drunks... even accused of being a winebibber.... so where does that leave us?

He also got accused of breaking the Sabbath because He healed. His response was to tell them "it is LAWFUL to do well on the Sabbath day".

And Jesus did hang out with some of the lowliest of sinners, but He still went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day. It was His custom, and since we know He never sinned, He never broke the Sabbath commandment.

I fellowship with non-Adventists all the time. My new friend on here is a Catholic woman. I really appreciate her as a person and as a very intelligent woman. She disagrees with me with just about everything, and vice versa, lol, but we do it with love and we both LISTEN.

I don't think you have to go to someone's church with them in order to understand their faith. All you really have to do is ask them and they'll tell you. If they're a true friend, they'll ask you back.
 
Upvote 0

SassySDA

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
926
19
69
OH
✟1,169.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Seraph1m said:
Sis, it is very disconcerting and unfortunate that you consistantly fall back on emotional blackmail when you are asked to simply provide scripture to substantiate a point you claim is a command of God.

I suggest we all consider the following.
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Peace


If I need to quote scripture for you to understand what I am saying about keeping the Sabbath, then I would have to say..."Houston, we have a problem".

I don't believe I need to quote scripture to support the fact that God set the 7th day apart and SANCTIFIED it. I don't believe I need to quote scripture to support the fact that God called me out of a Sunday keeping church, and I have no desire to disobey Him, and return to where He called me out of.

I have a RIGHT to the feelings I have in my heart, seraph1m. I have a right to be able to express them without knowing before I even log back on here, that the post will be torn apart piece by piece. That's NOT emotional blackmail, sis, it's the truth. I read things in here everyday that I disagree with...but I pick and choose what I decide to make an issue out of.

Now, that being said, if I were creating posts that said ALL OF YOU have to listen to me and do as I do, then I could see your zealousness in tearing every post I make apart. Because I would be WRONG to state any such thing. But I have never posted anything even remotely close to that. I do what I feel is right in my heart, what God tells me in my heart is right, everyone else must do the same. They must make those decisions on their own.

God bless
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SassySDA

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
926
19
69
OH
✟1,169.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Seraph1m said:
Pro 28:21 To have respect of persons [is] not good: for for a piece of bread [that] man will transgress.


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

With that said, lets get back to the OP.

I will reiterate that NOTHING in scripture even suggests that one is breaking the sabbath when in fellowship with other believers on a day other than Sabbath... It is just not there.

and I never said it was.

I spoke from my heart...I never said it was scripturally proven to be a "sin" or wrong. I said, "I don't think it's a good idea" and I don't. But others are free to do as they feel is right.
 
Upvote 0