Fear of Preterism

[franklin]

Originally posted by seebs
Franklin: That's like saying that, if the earth doesn't have four corners, the Bible is a lie. Sometimes we don't understand things correctly, or they need to be taken in context.

Well Seebs, Jesus said he was coming back in the generation that was living when He spoke (Mt24:34), are you willing to accept the word of the Lord of Heaven or your own preconceived ideas about the end of the world? If you are willing to accept the words of Jesus just as it is written then who do you choose to believe? The word of the Lord or the words of the modern day theologians? Just what does the authority of the scriptures mean to you Seebs? What does the inspiration of the scripture mean to you? As for not understanding things correctly, it's no one else's fault but your own if you don't understand things correctly, we all have to study to show ourselves approved! Are we going to continue to raise up the next generation on false teaching and error?
Going back to my original statement: If Jesus returned within His generation, (which I believe with my whole heart & i'm rejoicing in that) then the futurist view is a lie! yes I believe the futurist view is a flat out lie and the ultimate deception and nowhere to be found in scripture!

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by prodigal
Bump? Bump what? There is nothing else to talk about, preter[ism] is wrong, period.

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from.
It's best not to attempt to defend your point with substantive arguments, when you don't have any.

 

[Autumn]

Originally posted by franklin


Well Seebs, Jesus said he was coming back in the generation that was living when He spoke (Mt24:34), are you willing to accept the word of the Lord of Heaven or your own preconceived ideas about the end of the world?

This depends on your definition of generation. "Generation" may mean age or nation.

 

[davo]

Originally posted by Autumn
This depends on your definition of generation. "Generation" may mean age or nation.

G'day Autumn

If you do a study of the word [particulary in the Greek] nowhere anywhere is generation as "age"=aion -hence our word "aeon," or "nation"=ethnos -hence our word "ethnic." But "generation" means generation -and this [Mt 24] is the ONLY place where futurists interpret "generation" to be something other than what the plain sense of the text says it to be. One could use the phrase "this generation" in any context about any thing and any futurist would know and accept it the only way it is meant -their contemporary generation. But contempt for context turns text into pretext = an excuse to say otherwise -why? to make scripture fit doctrine.

davo

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by davo


G'day Autumn

If you do a study of the word [particulary in the Greek] nowhere anywhere is generation as "age"=aion -hence our word "aeon," or "nation"=ethnos -hence our word "ethnic." But "generation" means generation -and this [Mt 24] is the ONLY place where futurists interpret "generation" to be something other than what the plain sense of the text says it to be. One could use the phrase "this generation" in any context about any thing and any futurist would know and accept it the only way it is meant -their contemporary generation. But contempt for context turns text into pretext = an excuse to say otherwise -why? to make scripture fit doctrine.

davo

Thank you brother Davo! I was heading for my Greek info as I read Autumn's reply! Plain sence and common sence is something I never applied either when I was a zealous futurist also! It never ceases to amaze me why and how these futurists keep coming up with one excuse after another to reject preterism! I wonder what they are going to do when realized eschatology is the main position in the body of Christ!

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by prodigal
Bump? Bump what? There is nothing else to talk about, preter is wrong, period.

Prodical, If there is nothing else to talk about, then what are you doing in our neck of the woods? Preterism is here to stay and we are not moved brother! If you think it is wrong then show us from the word of God where you think it is wrong but be careful, when you go to the scriptures it'll just backfire on you and proove Preterism my friend! Especially when you start quoting the time statements! So go ahead, make my day! Let me make a suggestion if I may, why don't you go to Mt 24 or 1Thess4 or Revelation (any chapter) and see how far you get! I'll be just a waitin with my cup of coffee to see what you come up with! I know this is going to be veeeery interesting!

 

[gwyyn]

jeez are boasting about our knowledge now

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Autumn


This depends on your definition of generation. "Generation" may mean age or nation.

Autumn, Actually the word generation refers to the Greek word "Genea" meaning, The whole multitude of men living at the same time. All you have to do is ask yourself, which generation? Be honest with yourself and if you apply a little common sence and logic when you approach the words of Jesus, it's as simple as asking yourself, well, who was our Lord addressing in these passages? You have to look at it this way, the Bible was not written TO us, it was written FOR us! One of the things I never heard of when I was a futurist like you was to read the scripture using audience relevence. Who was the audience that heard the message, what was the writers message, who were the hearers, and what was the historical setting. This is basic Hermeneutics. Think of it this way, when you read your Bible, try reading it with first century eyes and not twenty first century eyes. Try it, it will amaze you.
Have a nice day,
Franklin

 

[Mandy]

Originally posted by franklin
If Jesus returned within His generation, then the futurist view is a lie.

If Jesus didn't return within His generation, then Christianity is a lie.

Christianity is not about when Christ returns, it is based on His death and resurrection and His life. That is the foundation of Christianity.
As Paul stated: For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1Cor 2:2

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Mandy


Christianity is not about when Christ returns, it is based on His death and resurrection and His life. That is the foundation of Christianity.
As Paul stated: For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1Cor 2:2

Wait a sec.....

are you saying that Christ never needs to return?

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Mandy


Christianity is not about when Christ returns, it is based on His death and resurrection and His life. That is the foundation of Christianity.
As Paul stated: For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 1Cor 2:2

Dear Mandy, I agree with you to a point that Christianity is based on Christ's death, burial and resurrection, however, don't leave out His asention and I'm afraid that if we leave out His second appearing, we are guilty of only telling part of the entire story! Let me ask you some questions.....
How does the futurist view and your deferred hope theory look to the unbelieving world? To non-Christians they view Christ as a failure! He was not victorious and He didn't keep His word to the people He spoke to!
Did not Jesus Himself speak those words to the generation of believers he was addressing in the first century? Are you willing to accept the word of the Lord of Heaven or your own preconceived ideas about the end of the world? This is why I am pointing out the fact that the futurist view makes Christianity look like a lie! Not to mention how false and misguided futurism is! It's based on man's interpretations and preconceived speculations of scripture!

 

[Kelier]

I believe the word of God and the word of God says that Jesus will return to establish His kingdom here on earth and will reign!! Oh but Jesus was victorious, by His death and resurrection!
It is preterism that makes Christianity look like a lie!
Preterism teaches that the kingdom is now! Look around you!! This is no kingdom! Believe the truth of God!!
You are like those mocking, "where is the promise of His coming?"
The Jesus of the Holy Scriptures is coming again! I am sorry that you have been led to believe a lie.

 

[Mandy]

Cool it down or this thread will be closed.

 

[parousia70]

Originally posted by Kelier
I believe the word of God and the word of God says that Jesus will return to establish His kingdom here on earth and will reign!! Oh but Jesus was victorious, by His death and resurrection!
It is preterism that makes Christianity look like a lie!
Preterism teaches that the kingdom is now! Look around you!! This is no kingdom! Believe the truth of God!!
You are like those mocking, "where is the promise of His coming?"
The Jesus of the Holy Scriptures is coming again! I am sorry that you have been led to believe a lie.

Kelier, (p70 says, keeping his cool) Jesus reigns now, Jesus rules the earth now, Jesus Kingdom is within us, on earth now. Jesus is already the victor, yet you seem to imply that Jesus hasn't won anything yet.

How much MORE will the earth belong to Jesus after a supposed fleshy "return"?

You seem to be implying that, yes, Jesus rules the earth right now, but when He returns He's really gonna rule!

Please explain the difference

 

[Manifestation1*AD70]

Originally posted by Kelier
I believe the word of God and the word of God says that Jesus will return to establish His kingdom here on earth and will reign!!

Just one question? Where is the verse that states Jesus will reign on earth?

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Kelier
I believe the word of God and the word of God says that Jesus will return to establish His kingdom here on earth and will reign!!

Dear Ms Kelier, We past fulfilled believers believe God's word too, however, we rejoice in the fact that Jesus has kept and fulfilled everything He said would come to pass to the generation He addressed 2K yrs ago & yes Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you, does He live in you Ms Kelier? His kingdom is spiritual not physical! you are making the same error the Jews made during the first century and that is looking for a physical kingdom here on planet earth nowhere to be found in scriputre, that is another one of man's speculations and imaginations

Oh but Jesus was victorious, by His death and resurrection! [/B]

Yes Jesus was victorious over death and the grave but that is only part of the story, He also returned during the lifetime of His contemporaries to put an end to Satan and sin and to bring His everlasting covenant that has no last days! Praise God!!! To say he didn't return makes him a failure according to your way of thinking which was the way I used to think and believe until God revealed true Biblical teaching to me through His word! Biblical teaching, preterism, they are one in the same as opposed to dispensationism (the doctrine of imagination)

It is preterism that makes Christianity look like a lie!
Preterism teaches that the kingdom is now! Look around you!! This is no kingdom! [/B]

This like saying God's precious gift (His Son) was not good enough! I wonder what He must think when He hears you futurists say, 'look all around, you call this God's kingdom? Christ died for our sins, gave us eternal life and that's all there is? Sad, sad, sad, my dear sister! so sad! I love this standard quote used by most futurists, "look around"? What are we supposed to be looking around for? Are we to look in the NY Times to see what prophocies are yet to be fulfilled? Actually, it's the usual futuristic cop out when they are confronted and asked by the non-christian world about when and what prophecies are yet to be fulfilled? Well, all you have to do is look around! I'm sure that really gives them a great picture of Bible believing Christians! Preterism provides the only consistant answer to all fulfilled prophesy!

[/QUOTE]
Believe the truth of God!!
You are like those mocking, "where is the promise of His coming?"[/B][/QUOTE]

Ms K, you are taking more scripture out of context! Peter wasn't talking to us two thousand years into the future and the scoffers he was referring to are looking pretty good compared to the scoffers today who are still saying He hasn't returned yet! Be careful of what scriptures you use to try to proove that preterists are scoffers because as you can see, it just backfired on you!

[/QUOTE]
The Jesus of the Holy Scriptures is coming again! I am sorry that you have been led to believe a lie. [/B][/QUOTE]

sounds like your doing it again... go back to the previous quote and my reply.... the scoffers that Peter spoke to are looking great today compared to the ones of the 21st century who are still looking for Him

 

[Back To The Future]

The Kingdom of God is Within YOu. Those few words changed my life in such a big way.
I use to go for walks and I would talk to God and just say over and over, The kingdom of God is within you.
Even before I ever heard of preterisn, this verse was drawing me towards it.
The kingdom is a spiritual one. Not physical.
Oh happy day!

Nancy

 

[GW]

Originally posted by Josephus
Would preterists be willing to conceed to the precedent of God using prophecy in double-fulfillments? Such as, the Davidic Psalms, the Feasts, and Israelogy?

Hi Josephus, and Christ's great riches to you.

I wrote an article on this exact topic here at planetpreterist.com

Answering Futurist Objections: Multiple Fulfillments in Bible Prophecy?
http://www.planetpreterist.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=323

I hope you will take a moment and read, and part two of the article will come soon.

(and by "soon" I don't mean thousands of years) --

 

[GW]

Originally posted by Mandy

From Chuck Smith's commentary:
v.27 The seventieth seven will begin when the Antichrist makes a covenant with Israel for a 7-year period (Isaiah 28:14-17). There are several hints in the Bible that tie Caesar Nero to the Antichrist....

Jesus Christ's crucifixion took place in the midst of week number 70, after the 69 weeks had been completed.

 

[jenlu]

Hey Back to the Future...

I know this has been covered before, but I would like to ask you...Do you believe Christ's ressurrection was physical as well as spiritual...or just spiritual...I know he was touched and handled by the disciple's, but do you believe they were just touching a shell of what really was standing before them or actual "spiritual flesh", if you will...what ya think?