Falling from faith.

[d taylor]

Another excellent written article on: Saving Faith and Apostasy: Do Believers Ever Stop Believing?

Saving Faith and Apostasy: Do Believers Ever Stop Believing? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[BNR32FAN]

Another excellent written article on: Saving Faith and Apostasy: Do Believers Ever Stop Believing?

Saving Faith and Apostasy: Do Believers Ever Stop Believing? – Grace Evangelical Society

You mean another source of heresy.

 

[d taylor]

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People who believe they can obtain the status of a born again child of God through obedience of works. Can not understand God eternal life security, that God gives a person the very moment they believe in Jesus. Why because they place their security, not on God promise, but on themselves and their obedience of works.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

People who believe they can obtain the status of a born again child of God through obedience of works. Can not understand God eternal life security, that God gives a person the very moment they believe in Jesus. Why because they place their security, not on God promise, but on themselves and their obedience of works.​

--- just a little something to see ---​

People who presume to have eternal security cannot understand the teaching of Christ that God judges people on what they do as well as what they say they believe even when they say it oh so sincerely. Why? because they place all their trust in what they say and feel but may not bother to do.

 

[d taylor]

--- just a little something to see ---​

People who presume to have eternal security cannot understand the teaching of Christ that God judges people on what they do as well as what they say they believe even when they say it oh so sincerely. Why? because they place all their trust in what they say and feel but may not bother to do.

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I understand God's judgment of a born again child of God perfectly, that will occur at the judgment seat of The Messiah. Which is a rewards based judgment, eternal rewards. No born again child of God, will face a judgment to see if they are really a born again child of God. If yoy believe they will, then that is a works based effort to receive Eternal Life salvation.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I understand God's judgment of a born again child of God perfectly

This statement seems very proud.

No born again child of God, will face a judgment to see if they are really a born again child of God.

Yet everyone who claims to be born again must face judgement not only to sift the truth of the claim but also to show that their works are in truth good.

If yoy believe they will, then that is a works based effort to receive Eternal Life salvation.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.

 

[Dan Perez]

--- just a little something to see ---​

People who presume to have eternal security cannot understand the teaching of Christ that God judges people on what they do as well as what they say they believe even when they say it oh so sincerely. Why? because they place all their trust in what they say and feel but may not bother to do.

Will you provide a verse that teaches that ?? and where are those teaching taught , with A VERSE ? PLEASE .

dan p

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Will you provide a verse that teaches that ?? and where are those teaching taught , with A VERSE ? PLEASE .

dan p

No! Scripture is not a grab bag of verses to prove one's point! Holy Scripture has a great deal to teach but it has to be read well and widely to properly grasp what it teaches. Fragmented verses are not worth too much taken apart from the wider context in which they exist. It's fine to quote a verse as long as the verse is being used properly with its context providing the context for the discussion where the verse is cited.

People who presume to have eternal security cannot understand the teaching of Christ that God judges people on what they do as well as what they say they believe even when they say it oh so sincerely. Why? because they place all their trust in what they say and feel but may not bother to do.

You want me to back that up with scripture, well read the gospels, see what Jesus has to say about judgement and you'll see why I wrote that. It comes from what Jesus says about the way men and women will be judged - you could look at Matthew 25:31-46, you can look at John 3 and 15 and you can look at the sermon on the mount, all of which teach what people will be judged by.

 

[d taylor]

This statement seems very proud.

Yet everyone who claims to be born again must face judgement not only to sift the truth of the claim but also to show that their works are in truth good.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.

Not one single example of a born again child of God facing a judgment to see if they are a born again child of God. John 5:24 states the born again child of God at the moment of faith in Jesus crosses over form death to life. So does John 11: 25,26

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not one single example of a born again child of God facing a judgment to see if they are a born again child of God. John 5:24 states the born again child of God at the moment of faith in Jesus crosses over form death to life. So does John 11: 25,26

And as I showed you already James 5:19-20 proves that believers (the brethren) can stray from the truth resulting in the death of their soul. Claiming that the word “brethren” doesn’t refer to a believer is just refusing to accept what the word of God plainly states. You need to figure out what is more important, your pride or the truth of God’s word.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

No! Scripture is not a grab bag of verses to prove one's point! Holy Scripture has a great deal to teach but it has to be read well and widely to properly grasp what it teaches. Fragmented verses are not worth too much taken apart from the wider context in which they exist. It's fine to quote a verse as long as the verse is being used properly with its context providing the context for the discussion where the verse is cited.

Amen, “he who has ears to hear, let him hear”.

 

[d taylor]

And as I showed you already James 5:19-20 proves that believers (the brethren) can stray from the truth resulting in the death of their soul. Claiming that the word “brethren” doesn’t refer to a believer is just refusing to accept what the word of God plainly states. You need to figure out what is more important, your pride or the truth of God’s word.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This shows you complete misunderstanding, because i never said the people addressed in James were not born again children of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This shows you complete misunderstanding, because i never said the people addressed in James were not born again children of God.

You’re dancing around the issue. James specifically states that the believer who is brought back from unbelief has been saved from the death of his soul. You said that once a person believes they have passed from death to life and cannot pass back from life to death. James says otherwise.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Not one single example of a born again child of God facing a judgment

If it pleases you not to see it then you'll not see it. Thanks for your posts.

 

[d taylor]

You’re dancing around the issue. James specifically states that the believer who is brought back from unbelief has been saved from the death of his soul. You said that once a person believes they have passed from death to life and cannot pass back from life to death. James says otherwise.

What is sad is your inability to distinguish between death of spirit and death of soul, which is a person's physical life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What is sad is your inability to distinguish between death of spirit and death of soul, which is a person's physical life.

Wrong, the soul is destroyed in hell.

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

That didn’t work, wanna try again?

 

[d taylor]

Wrong, the soul is destroyed in hell.

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

That didn’t work, wanna try again?

It still escapes you, that a person who is a permanent born again child of God. Is because they have received at the very moment of faith in Jesus, the life of God (Spirit), they do not receive a soul. Every person born is body and soul, the person who has never believed in Jesus remains only body and soul. So why is a soul and body in hell because they never at a point in their life believed in The Messiah for The Life of God.

There are no Biblical uses of the expression "the salvation of the soul" in reference to eternal life salvation from hell.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It still escapes you, that a person who is a permanent born again child of God. Is because they have received at the very moment of faith in Jesus, the life of God (Spirit), they do not receive a soul. Every person born is body and soul, the person who has never believed in Jesus remains only body and soul. So why is a soul and body in hell because they never at a point in their life believed in The Messiah for The Life of God.

There are no Biblical uses of the expression "the salvation of the soul" in reference to eternal life salvation from hell.

The destruction of the soul takes place in hell. So now you’re saying that saved people will burn in hell?

 

[bbbbbbb]

The destruction of the soul takes place in hell. So now you’re saying that saved people will burn in hell?

Nah, that's why we have Purgatory.

 

[d taylor]

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No the verse does not state the soul will be destroyed in Hell but states fear God who is able to destroy the soul in hell.

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell

A born again child of God will never be in danger of hell. They are a permanent member of the family of God, no matter how they lived their earthly life.