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Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:I'm not sure how that would apply since it's about charity towards others, rather than believe, faith and perseverance.
Because they performed an act of charity to someone in need.Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:34
Because they failed to perform an act of charity to someone in need.And these [those on his left] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:46
This is true, but possible the good did good constantly and helped many of Christ's brethren. And the wicked constantly did not help those in need and so when the wicked were in need Christ did not saved save them. Matthew 6 and 7 explain that to be forgiven one must forgive others, and if a person does not forgive others then they cannot expect to be forgiven.Because they performed an act of charity to someone in need.
Because they failed to perform an act of charity to someone in need.
Jesus specifically says "one of" as in helping one single person. And the only thing the story is about is an act of charity to one person.This is true, but possible the good did good constantly and helped many of Christ's brethren. And the wicked constantly did not help those in need and so when the wicked were in need Christ did not saved save them. Matthew 6 and 7 explain that to be forgiven one must forgive others, and if a person does not forgive others then they cannot expect to be forgiven.
I do not agree that the passage is figurative in the sense in which you say it is.Jesus specifically says "one of" as in helping one single person. And the only thing the story is about is an act of charity to one person.
Personally I think the entire passage is figurative to emphasize how important charity is, rather than a theological statement regarding heaven and hell. Because as you point out, if Jesus is speaking in a litteral sense, he is contradicting what he said in Matthew 6 and 7 etc.
Could you elaborate please?I do not agree that the passage is figurative in the sense in which you say it is.
I do not agree that the passage is figurative in the sense in which you say it is.
When it comes to apostasy and salvation, there's usually a number of passages many have been taught to use, that don't really address apostasy.In general I don't see your exegesis to have much merit.
I'm seeing in this thread references to passages of Scripture that scholarship traditionally believes refers to a discussion about whether someone who, after they were baptized into the church, later declared Caesar Lord to avoid death (believe it or not while many stood for Christ in the face of death, some fell away in that hour) could be restored to Christian fellowship.
So there was discussion about whether or not they could be taken back into fellowship after so doing, as well as whether they could be restored after that. That discussion takes place in Scripture.
And that's being conflated with other Scriptures about other topics like the church (as a whole) not becoming complacent in her duty to spread the gospel...
And suddenly Joe Blow from Arkansas can suddenly loose his salvation because he's a regular Christian who occasionally messes up...
I mean really this whole thread has become a study in bad exegesis so forgive when I have to point out your disagreement - though I didn't actually read the post you were disagreeing with - seems an exercise in futility.
It's great to have discussion but there must be some attempt to understand what the Bible actually means when it talks about things prior to discussion.
John 10:29 does not say that He will not cast them away or that they can never turn away from His hand. If I’m holding a frog in my hand and I say that no one can snatch this frog from my hand that doesn’t mean that the frog can’t leap from my hand or I cannot throw the frog from my hand.I never said a person can not fall away from their faith actually i did say they can. But what i also said was that they remain a born again child of God as God states no one can take them from God's hand.
The language about sheep and goats is figurative in a pictorial and agrarian sense but the reasons for judgement are not figurative, they are plain prose.Could you elaborate please?
When it comes to apostasy and salvation, there's usually a number of passages many have been taught to use, that don't really address apostasy.
““Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”A person who has believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life is saved. As John 5:24 states they have crossed over from death to life. John does not say they will eventually cross over if they remain in the faith.
Apostasy is to leave the faith and take up some other system of beliefs and usually involves opposition towards the faith one left. Hebrews 6:1-12 is about falling away which is not necessarily apostasy.Plus - before we can talk about apostasy itself we have to determine what that means truthfully.
Amen but those who fall away are no longer abiding in Christ. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.Well praise GOD Glory to Jesus there is now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus then our lord said.. I have not come to condemn the world but to save it. Praise you Father for sending your Son.
So those that fall let those that are strong in the faith help them... in Jesus name
Amen and there’s also Romans 11:17-24 that clearly indicates that Gentiles can be grafted into the “olive tree” (God’s covenant) and they can also be cut off as well after having been grafted in.No, it may have been read by Hebrew speaking Christians as its first readers, but it is written like all the scriptures are, for the benefit of Christians.
I say that the book of Hebrews is written for Christians some time after the Resurrection of the Lord and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Israel has significance but not as a nation or as physical descendants of Abraham, Christians are spiritual descendants for Abraham because they are in Christ and because Christ is the Seed that was promised to Abraham.
You posted 2 Timothy 2:10 but I think 2 Timothy 2:12 is a better example.What has that verse to do with the book of Hebrews? By the way, Acts 2:28 does not mention Israel or the body of Christ.
Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
what has that verse to do with the book of Hebrews? And Galatians 3:28 says
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.So, what exactly is the reason you have for quoting it?
I am using the words as they are used in these verses - this is a sample of places where "in Christ" is used.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie nota teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 1 Timothy 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.2 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.Philemon 1:8 Wherefore, though I might be much bold in Christ to enjoin thee that which is convenient,Philemon 1:23 There salute thee Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus;
Amen, if salvation occurred at the moment of belief then John 15:6 would be irrelevant and those who fail to abide (remain) in Christ would not be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned.I read the words in both passages as promissory,
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
I see the verses as promises and I believe that they are fulfilled at the last judgement.
The word “judgement” used in John 3:17-18 means to condemn, convict, or sentence. And the verse, like I stated earlier, doesn’t use the word “believed” as you did here.-There is no final judgment for a person who has believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life salvation (to see if they will receive it).
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A believer may fall away from their faith, but God never lets go of a born again child of God.
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