Falling from faith.

[Xeno.of.athens]

Therefore, let us hasten to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall into the same example of unbelief.
Hebrews 4:11

It is truly a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord. So, hold fast to the faith and avoid falling into condemnation.

 

[d taylor]

-​

A believer may fall away from their faith, but God never lets go of a born again child of God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

A believer may fall away from their faith, but God never lets go of a born again child of God.

For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, and have even tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become sharers in the Holy Spirit, who, despite having tasted the good Word of God and the virtues of the future age, have yet fallen away, to be renewed again to penance, since they are crucifying again in themselves the Son of God and are still maintaining pretences.
Hebrews 6:4-6

It seems that there is scripture in which those who have received the Holy Spirit may fall away from the faith.

In addition.
According to Christianity.com 1, scripture makes it clear that people can and do fall away from the faith and the grace afforded them. Keep in mind that God still cares for them, and they can indeed be restored after a fall from grace.

1: Can Anyone Fall from Grace? (Galatians 5 4) - Christianity.com​

 

[d taylor]

For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, and have even tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become sharers in the Holy Spirit, who, despite having tasted the good Word of God and the virtues of the future age, have yet fallen away, to be renewed again to penance, since they are crucifying again in themselves the Son of God and are still maintaining pretences.
Hebrews 6:4-6

It seems that there is scripture in which those who have received the Holy Spirit may fall away from the faith.

In addition.
According to Christianity.com 1, scripture makes it clear that people can and do fall away from the faith and the grace afforded them. Keep in mind that God still cares for them, and they can indeed be restored after a fall from grace.

1: Can Anyone Fall from Grace? (Galatians 5 4) - Christianity.com​

I never said a person can not fall away from their faith actually i did say they can. But what i also said was that they remain a born again child of God as God states no one can take them from God's hand.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I never said a person can not fall away from their faith actually i did say they can. But what i also said was that they remain a born again child of God as God states no one can take them from God's hand.

Do you think that they will be saved?

 

[d taylor]

Do you think that they will be saved?

A person who has believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life is saved. As John 5:24 states they have crossed over from death to life. John does not say they will eventually cross over if they remain in the faith.

 

[IoanC]

God may allow one to fall from faith because they have become too religious. In other words, they have departed from normal life.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

A person who has believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life is saved. As John 5:24 states they have crossed over from death to life. John does not say they will eventually cross over if they remain in the faith.

Is there a scripture that says it is impossible to lose salvation?

 

[Mark Quayle]

For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, and have even tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become sharers in the Holy Spirit, who, despite having tasted the good Word of God and the virtues of the future age, have yet fallen away, to be renewed again to penance, since they are crucifying again in themselves the Son of God and are still maintaining pretences.
Hebrews 6:4-6

It seems that there is scripture in which those who have received the Holy Spirit may fall away from the faith.

In addition.
According to Christianity.com 1, scripture makes it clear that people can and do fall away from the faith and the grace afforded them. Keep in mind that God still cares for them, and they can indeed be restored after a fall from grace.

1: Can Anyone Fall from Grace? (Galatians 5 4) - Christianity.com​

The Holy Spirit does as it will (John 3). "Having the Holy Spirit" as in, "sharers of the Holy Spirit" is not the same thing as the Holy Spirit taking up residence within, and regenerating, the believer. There are all sorts of 'believers', as we know —the demons also believe. And 'Saul is among the prophets'.

But the born-again, the redeemed, the elect of God, the children of God, the forgiven, the Body of Christ —these belong to Christ, and he will lose none of them. God will complete what he has begun.

But the 'believer' was never of the elect, that ultimately does not remain in him, though he accomplish great feats of faith. "I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of iniquity!"

 

[bling]

1. Gal. 6: 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Paul explains plainly that eternal life is the harvest in the future we do not want to “give up”, but that also teaches we can give it up.

Our doing good stuff while here on earth (or better: our allowing God to work through us doing good stuff) is not to “earn”, “payback” or to allow us to “hold on to our salvation”. We want to continue to utilize Godly type Love and not get caught up in carnal type love so the huge Love Feast of Heaven (unselfish type Love only) still has value to us and not something we would sell on the cheap.

As far as being saved by faith only without “works”, that is true, but just like the Prodigal son wimped out of taking the punishment he fully deserved and humbly returned to the Father, we must wimp out, give up surrender to our enemy God and that will allow God to shower us with His charity.

2. Eternal Life in heaven is spoken of as our inheritance and not something we actually have at the moment. All other Gifts of God we have right away, but heaven is truly ours as a birthright (our inheritance).



Also someone being dead was brought up, but we really need to see how Christ talked about dead people:



Part of the meaning to the concept of being given a gift is the fact that the ownership of the gift actually transfers to the receiver of the gift and as such the receiver of the gift can do what he/she wants to do with the gift.



The Hebrew writer in Heb. 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

Esau owned the “gift” of the firstborn inheritance rights, which could not be taken from him by anyone, nor could someone steal it from his hand, not even his father could take them back, but Esau could sell it or give it away.



The Hebrew writer is telling us not to give away or sell our birth right (as born again Christians) which is our inheritance of eternal life.



We own a paid-up tax-free deed to a home in heaven, so that home was gifted to us, but the Hebrew writer is saying we could sell (or give it away) like Esau did.



Again we are not doing or allowing the Holy Spirit to do good stuff through us to get anything (God has given us everything up front with the exception of dwelling in heaven right now), but we do have an undeserved birthright to heaven which cannot be lost like your keys, stolen from you, earned, paid back and even God will not take it from you, but you can of your own free will which you still have: given it away (satan wants it).



Jesus would use the very best words to convey the meaning and Jesus did not say: “God brought him to his senses”, but Jesus did say “he came to his senses”. How did he do it if he was in a dead state or can you do this if you are in a dead state? We know the young man was in a dead state because:

Luke 15: 24 “For this son of mine was dead and is alive again…” and Luke 15:32 “…because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again;…”

The Father (representing God) does not say “We thought he was dead” or “was like dead”.

There is not a definition given for being “Spiritually dead” so we cannot say exactly what that means, but from this passage Jesus is teaching us a spiritually dead person can repent.

It is a lot more complex than just looking at it and giving one meaning to “spiritually dead”. In one since the young man does not have Godly type Love and Paul teaches us (1 Cor. 13) without this Godly type Love you can do nothing of value (it is worthless) so in that since what the young man did in even repenting was “worthless” of no value. The young man is actually being “motivated” by self seeking reasoning, but it does cause him to swallow his pride. The acceptance of the Father’s Love is really not “doing” something but more allowing something to be done to you.

In other words, the young son did not really “do” anything in his dead state, but did allow the father to do stuff for him. The Young man could have gone on in the pigsty trying on his own to recover (maintaining some pride), but that would be really trying to stay alive by doing something as compared to giving up (being a walking dead person).

Yes, we have heaven as our inheritance, a birthright not written on a piece of paper that can be lost, and a deed to a home in heaven.

Yet, Esau had an unwritten birthright, which could not be lost, stolen, and even Isaac could not take it back, but Esau could give it away. It was thus truly Esau’s, because he could do with it as he pleased.

God gave us a deed/birthright to a home in heaven and it is truly ours, so if we loss interest in heaven, fell our minds with worldly things and reach the point of not caring about being with God, we can give our birthright away. It is not someone over powering God or Christ snatching us away, but like a prodigal son, we can leave on our own, God/Christ are not holding as chained prisoners.

 

[Blade]

Therefore, let us hasten to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall into the same example of unbelief.
Hebrews 4:11

It is truly a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord. So, hold fast to the faith and avoid falling into condemnation.

Well praise GOD Glory to Jesus there is now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus then our lord said.. I have not come to condemn the world but to save it. Praise you Father for sending your Son.

So those that fall let those that are strong in the faith help them... in Jesus name

 

[Blade]

For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, and have even tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become sharers in the Holy Spirit, who, despite having tasted the good Word of God and the virtues of the future age, have yet fallen away, to be renewed again to penance, since they are crucifying again in themselves the Son of God and are still maintaining pretences.
Hebrews 6:4-6

It seems that there is scripture in which those who have received the Holy Spirit may fall away from the faith.

In addition.
According to Christianity.com 1, scripture makes it clear that people can and do fall away from the faith and the grace afforded them. Keep in mind that God still cares for them, and they can indeed be restored after a fall from grace.

1: Can Anyone Fall from Grace? (Galatians 5 4) - Christianity.com​

Hi this verse is used.. well wrong way to say that.. many stumble on it. The 12 with Paul would be the ones this verse is talking about. See they know Him seen Him.. well like Satan that saw God was with God in all His glory and power and choose to walk away. Its knowing God/Christ like this and then you walk away. These are those say to Christ "I don't want you any more". A clear knowing choice. So have you or anyone here "
tasted and consciously experienced the good word of God and the powers of the age (world) to come,"? Yeah no.

Its not someone that gets mad at God or something bad happens GOD FOR BID and walks away. The fact most have no clue as to what JESUS they really believe in. He the great I am our Father knows this. Its about those that have not can not question who He really is for they KNOW Him. Yeah not to many like that.

A link to a site that might agree you can or you can't is not proof.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well praise GOD Glory to Jesus there is now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus then our lord said.. I have not come to condemn the world but to save it. Praise you Father for sending your Son.

So those that fall let those that are strong in the faith help them... in Jesus name

All those scripture allusions are true, so too are the allusion in my post.

In your world view, please tell me what it means to be in Christ?

 

[Dan Perez]

Therefore, let us hasten to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall into the same example of unbelief.
Hebrews 4:11

It is truly a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Lord. So, hold fast to the faith and avoid falling into condemnation.

Is the book of Hebrews written to Israel , AGRREE ?

Or DISAGREE ?

I believe that the CONTEXT of Hebrews is written to Israel !!

This this my reasoning , What does , let us hasten to ENTER THAT REST as Israel was promised that REST !

What say you ?

dan p

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Is the book of Hebrews written to Israel , AGRREE ?

No, it may have been read by Hebrew speaking Christians as its first readers, but it is written like all the scriptures are, for the benefit of Christians.

I believe that the CONTEXT of Hebrews is written to Israel !!

This this my reasoning , What does , let us hasten to ENTER THAT REST as Israel was promised that REST !

What say you ?

I say that the book of Hebrews is written for Christians some time after the Resurrection of the Lord and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Israel has significance but not as a nation or as physical descendants of Abraham, Christians are spiritual descendants for Abraham because they are in Christ and because Christ is the Seed that was promised to Abraham.

 

[Dan Perez]

No, it may have been read by Hebrew speaking Christians as its first readers, but it is written like all the scriptures are, for the benefit of Christians.

I say that the book of Hebrews is written for Christians some time after the Resurrection of the Lord and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Israel has significance but not as a nation or as physical descendants of Abraham, Christians are spiritual descendants for Abraham because they are in Christ and because Christ is the Seed that was promised to Abraham.

Are you saying , that Israel in Acts 2:28 are CHRISTIANS and are in the BODY OF CHRIST ?

Where did I missed that VERSE < because Gal 3;28 says the THERE CANNOT BE / OV EVERrrrrrrrrrrrr, Jew or Greek , SLAVE nor Free , there CANNOT BE / OV also a DISJUNCATIVE PARICILE , NEGATIVE and that means there cannot beeeeeeeeeeee MALE and FEMALE , FOR YOU are all ONE IN CHRIST JESUS .

How do you define "ARE ONE IN CHRIST ?

dan p

 

[ViaCrucis]

Is the book of Hebrews written to Israel , AGRREE ?

Or DISAGREE ?

I believe that the CONTEXT of Hebrews is written to Israel !!

This this my reasoning , What does , let us hasten to ENTER THAT REST as Israel was promised that REST !

What say you ?

dan p

The letter to the Hebrews is addressed to Jewish Christians, and is a warning against falling away and instead persevering in faith in Christ. The context appears to be that during persecution many Jewish believers were tempted to return again to their former Judaism, and so the author warns them that if they throw their hope in Christ away by returning back to their former Judaism then they are forfeiting and forsaking the very hope and salvation they have found in Jesus. This is why the author spends a great deal of time showing how Christ is the fulfillment of the promises and covenants made with ancient Israel, that Jesus is the Great High Priest whose perfectly satisfying sacrifice is greater than the former sacrifices by the priests of the Aaronic priesthood. It's why the author speaks of the new and better covenant in Christ.

If by "Israel" you are referring to non-believing Jewish people, no of course Hebrews wasn't addressed to them. It is addressed to Jewish Christians, specifically Jewish Christians going through a very specific set of circumstances and trials.

In Christ both Jew and Gentile are "Israel". God didn't just throw Israel under the bus, but rather Israel's hope had come in her Lord and King, the Messiah, the long-awaited Son of David. That's Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Are you saying , that Israel in Acts 2:28 are CHRISTIANS and are in the BODY OF CHRIST ?

Where did I missed that VERSE < because Gal 3;28 says the THERE CANNOT BE / OV EVERrrrrrrrrrrrr, Jew or Greek , SLAVE nor Free , there CANNOT BE / OV also a DISJUNCATIVE PARICILE , NEGATIVE and that means there cannot beeeeeeeeeeee MALE and FEMALE , FOR YOU are all ONE IN CHRIST JESUS .

How do you define "ARE ONE IN CHRIST ?

dan p

Israel now includes the physically uncircumcised, for circumcision was a shadow that pointed forward to Christ, hence we have--in our baptism, whether Jew or Gentile--received a spiritual circumcision (Colossians 2:11-12). That spiritual circumcision makes us members of God's Covenant people, His Church, Israel.

This isn't really difficult to understand, this is simply the unified witness of Scripture. Israel is God's people, the Messiah came as was promised, fulfilling the promises made to and through Abraham, Moses, and David. Jesus, the Seed of Abraham, the Prophet like Moses, and the Son of David, the Messiah. He has come, and in Him Israel's hope is made full, He is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. While the unbelieving are branches which have been cut off by their unbelief, the olive tree has both natural branches (Jews) and wild branches which have been grafted (Gentiles), but the tree has one trunk, one root, and that is Christ. So that both Jew and Gentile are one in Christ, Jew and Gentile in Christ are Israel, the Church.

God has not, and I repeat, has not cast Israel to the side and under the bus. But has kept and is keeping the very promises He has made since the beginning. And while there are unbelieving Jews, and for the sake of the covenants and promises made with the patriarchs, God has not dismissed them; but rather the call of the Gospel to all people, Jew and Gentile, is that all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:26) and that all the nations shall be gathered to Mt. Zion, to Christ (Isaiah 2:3, see also Luke 24:47 and Matthew 28:19).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Are you saying , that Israel in Acts 2:28 are CHRISTIANS and are in the BODY OF CHRIST ?

What has that verse to do with the book of Hebrews? By the way, Acts 2:28 does not mention Israel or the body of Christ.

Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.​

Where did I missed that VERSE < because Gal 3;28 says the THERE CANNOT BE / OV EVERrrrrrrrrrrrr, Jew or Greek , SLAVE nor Free , there CANNOT BE / OV also a DISJUNCATIVE PARICILE , NEGATIVE and that means there cannot beeeeeeeeeeee MALE and FEMALE , FOR YOU are all ONE IN CHRIST JESUS .

what has that verse to do with the book of Hebrews? And Galatians 3:28 says

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.​

So, what exactly is the reason you have for quoting it?

How do you define "ARE ONE IN CHRIST ?

I am using the words as they are used in these verses - this is a sample of places where "in Christ" is used.

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.​

​

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.​

​

1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.​

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1 Timothy 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.​

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2 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,​

​

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,​

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2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.​

​

2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.​

​

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.​

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2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.​

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2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.​

​

Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.​

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Philemon 1:8 Wherefore, though I might be much bold in Christ to enjoin thee that which is convenient,​

​

Philemon 1:23 There salute thee Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus;​

 

[d taylor]

Is there a scripture that says it is impossible to lose salvation?

-​

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.