Failing church kicking out its old folk.

[mala]

all of this just seems so alien to me. must be some strange american religious thing.

 

[bekkilyn]

all of this just seems so alien to me. must be some strange american religious thing.

I think it's a very fear-based extreme reaction to a severe decline in cultural Christianity here in the U.S. There needs to be a balance between serving the needs of the existing (and older) church members and reaching out to the community and attracting new members. People look at smaller churches as a bad thing, but I'm not so sure. Growth in discipleship seems of much more importance than growth in membership soley for the sake of more members.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Do they make these reports public?

Since the figures came from the North Texas District Superintendant in an open meeting (As part of a sermon), it was spoken in public. The AG Website is ag.org. I Don't know what published therein.

 

[iluvatar5150]

In my limited experience, the UMC as an organization strikes me as kind of messed up in a bunch of ways.

That said, I could see cases where kicking out a handful of old-timers could be the best way to reset things. It's easy to romanticize "the most dependable" attendees, but there are plenty of churches where a handful of old stalwarts engage in toxic behavior and hold an inordinate amount of sway over the dealings of the church.

 

[Albion]

In my limited experience, the UMC as an organization strikes me as kind of messed up in a bunch of ways.

That said, I could see cases where kicking out a handful of old-timers could be the best way to reset things. It's easy to romanticize "the most dependable" attendees, but there are plenty of churches where a handful of old stalwarts engage in toxic behavior and hold an inordinate amount of sway over the dealings of the church.

Maybe there is a point there, but it would be difficult to justify expelling everyone over a certain age simply because of what you have referred to here (if it even applied to this particular congregation).

 

[tall73]

In my limited experience, the UMC as an organization strikes me as kind of messed up in a bunch of ways.

That said, I could see cases where kicking out a handful of old-timers could be the best way to reset things. It's easy to romanticize "the most dependable" attendees, but there are plenty of churches where a handful of old stalwarts engage in toxic behavior and hold an inordinate amount of sway over the dealings of the church.

But the last section of the article makes it sound like even that may be questionable:

Stella and Jon Knapp of Cottage Grove were the only members with children at the recent service, and they hate the plan.

“If it happened, I wouldn’t come here any more,” said Stella Knapp, 34. As six-year members, the couple loves the church and said they didn’t mind being the youngest members.

“This church is very kind to us and our children,” said Jon Knapp

So they have 25 regular attendance, they are kicking out however many older members, and at least four people from a younger family will leave if this happens.

It sounds like the regional organization feels they should be growing, and is interested in the location and the building. If they are going to spend 250k to reboot, why not just rent a spot and start a new plant, rather than doing this? I can't imagine national press for kicking out people would help.

And church plants often go smoother than renewing an aging church that is reluctant. Perhaps both churches wind up growing in the long run.

 

[tall73]

Maybe there is a point there, but it would be difficult to justify expelling everyone over a certain age simply because of what you have referred to here (if it even applied to this particular congregation).

And there is always the possibility of getting people on board the new plans. Churches that do renew need buy-in. And you can't just force that from outside as a regional leadership unit.

There was a church near us in a fairly small town that was down to just elderly members. A younger church in a neighboring town proposed to come in and help them reboot. The church got on board and is doing well now with all age groups. This turnaround took around two years.

 

[Albion]

And there is always the possibility of getting people on board the new plans. Churches that do renew need buy-in. And you can't just force that from outside as a regional leadership unit.

There was a church near us in a fairly small town that was down to just elderly members. A younger church in a neighboring town proposed to come in and help them reboot. The church got on board and is doing well now with all age groups. This turnaround took around two years.

It really doesn't matter. Not if a reboot requires any Christian church to expel longstanding members whose only misstep was being old.

Heaven save us from that kind of Churchianity!

 

[bekkilyn]

I just find myself thinking there is more going on there than the article stated. Something just doesn't seem right.

 

[tall73]

I just find myself thinking there is more going on there than the article stated. Something just doesn't seem right.

Perhaps so.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/reli...leave-leaders-say-that-didnt-actually-happen/

 

[tall73]

Knapp gave The Washington Post notes from a Dec. 12 meeting in which pastor Wetterstrom wrote that members were asked to be “silent partners in the Planting Project through prayer, community expertise and support services.” The notes do not suggest that elderly members were specifically targeted in those remarks, or that members were asked to “reapply” to return to Cottage Grove, as the Pioneer Press wrote.

But members who did not join the new church’s planting team were encouraged to step aside and temporarily attend the Woodbury location, which is about eight miles away, before transitioning back to the Cottage Grove location after 15 to 18 months.

Sounds like it was more like "we are going to change everything about this church. Get on board, or go away for 18 months."

 

[iluvatar5150]

It sounds like the regional organization feels they should be growing, and is interested in the location and the building. If they are going to spend 250k to reboot, why not just rent a spot and start a new plant, rather than doing this? I can't imagine national press for kicking out people would help.

And church plants often go smoother than renewing an aging church that is reluctant. Perhaps both churches wind up growing in the long run.

UMC probably owns the building. And, if this older congregation leans conservative, they could be trying to keep it for themselves after the denomination's pending split over teh gheys. If nothing else, it's probably cheaper to boot the old people and re-brand in the same building than it would be to start from scratch.

I just find myself thinking there is more going on there than the article stated. Something just doesn't seem right.

I expect that to be the case, too.

 

[tall73]

UMC probably owns the building. And, if this older congregation leans conservative, they could be trying to keep it for themselves after the denomination's pending split over teh gheys. If nothing else, it's probably cheaper to boot the old people and re-brand in the same building than it would be to start from scratch.




I expect that to be the case, too.

Per the new article they are on the progressive side of the split.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Per the new article they are on the progressive side of the split.

The new article makes the old-timers sound even worse. They weren't kicked out, but at least some of them ran to the press and made it out to sound like they were.

 

[tall73]

The new article makes the old-timers sound even worse. They weren't kicked out, but at least some of them ran to the press and made it out to sound like they were.

It really doesn't make either side sound great.

The organization comes in and institutes a re-boot without getting support from the congregation. As part of that reboot they are not expressly kicked out, but if they cannot support the top-down changes they are asked to leave for an extended period.

The congregants who don't like it do as you said and go to the press to complain.

I understand it is a plan that worked elsewhere in the region. I get that the location is great. So get the people on board rather than just institute it.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Struggling Cottage Grove Church Asks Older Members To Go Away

Churches die for reasons. This one is Methodist, but it's a pattern I've observed independent of denomination.

My position: an aging church membership is a symptom of a failure to fulfill the Great Commission, and a declining membership is another symptom. But failing to fulfill the Great Commission is itself a symptom of a deeper spiritual illness. This church lost its way a long time ago. And this latest cynical move is yet another manifestation of the sickness.

Jesus welcomed the humble from all walks of life and of all ages. But the Church he founded - the Church described in the New Testament- does it even exist anymore?

If the church were led by the Holy Spirit, things never even would have gotten to this point.

I looked this up, because I tend not to believe articles with biased headlines. I always check multiple sources.

Did a Minnesota Church Actually Ask Elderly Members to Leave? | RELEVANT Magazine

HERE is your problem. Attempting to run the church the way you run a business, with "experts". We once left a church that teased for months about some great new outreach to the community it was undertaking. We were interested and wondered if it would be a soup kitchen, or helping people to handle their money, or some practical idea that would engage people with the surrounding community. On the "big reveal" day, the leadership announced that they had spent tens of thousands of dollars on some "expert" to come up with....a new logo on a coffee mug. Gag.

From the article:


The church, which has been suffering from low attendance and finances for a number of years, has a weekly attendance of about 25 people. Wetterstrom is taking big steps to change that, bringing in a 30-year-old church planting specialist named Jeremy Peters. They are closing the church over the summer and plan to re-open in November with a fresh mission for new members. And current, older members say that they are not part of the plan.

From the article: While they won’t be “physically barred” from attending, Wetterstrom told the Duluth News Tribune that members who weren’t interested in being a part of the new church’s “planting team” should consider going to the other Methodist branch in town during the transition, and could discuss returning to Grove United Methodist in the future if they choose.

“No one is being asked to leave the church,” Wetterstrom said. “People are disappointed that the service is being canceled.”


The Apostles didn't need "experts" to launch them. They just did what Jesus told them to do: Teach, preach, and heal.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

That is disgusting.

The only thing that the church or any other should be concerned about is preaching the gospel.
Nothing else matters and even if there were only one "old" person attending, that would be more pleasing to God than seeking how to "attract" people.

This!

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

A church that dishonors its older members, or its members who are ill, or its poorer members, will not prosper, or will prosper for the wrong reasons. We are a body, and the wisdom those older folk have can be a ballast and a protection against youthful error. We are in an age that worships youth and the physical, and rather than drawing respect, age is a cause for job loss and sidelining.

Of course, the older folk need to let the life of the church change and evolve, and sometimes they want to cling to the old ways, so that can be a problem too. There has to be a coming together for the overall good of the church. A healthy amount of growing pains is a good sign for a church, and not to be avoided.

If one attends a church of all similarly-aged people with similar circumstances....that's a warning sign.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I think it's a very fear-based extreme reaction to a severe decline in cultural Christianity here in the U.S. There needs to be a balance between serving the needs of the existing (and older) church members and reaching out to the community and attracting new members. People look at smaller churches as a bad thing, but I'm not so sure. Growth in discipleship seems of much more importance than growth in membership soley for the sake of more members.

This. It is all about disciples, not members.

 

[RaymondG]

Maybe the reboot involves louder sound systems and strobe lighting, which the old would not be able to take. In this case, they are helping the older by telling them not to come and endure it.