Experiencing doubts

[Goodbook]

Check out John 10:4-5

Also..
My sheep listen to my voice, I know them and they follow me - Jesus - in John 10:27

Do you hear Jesus? Do you follow him? The more you listen to Jesus and follow him, the less you will listen to any other voices . Sometimes you have to actively just ignore or even tell the other voices to get lost.

If this is in your mind, I would recommend having prayer and deliverance with a minister or a team of minsters. With schizophrenia it can be complicated but I believe you CAN be free and in your right mind. Sometimes they (demonic voices) wont go out except with prayer and fasting. But there are christians who are trained fervent prayer warriors for this ministry. They are NOT psychiatrists who can only administer drugs that damp down symptoms. Yes keep seeing a psyhicatrist if you have to to have your daily meds so you can function but spiritual warfare works on another level not just chemicals in your brain.

ANOther thing you can do is keep up with reading the Bible so you can draw on scripture remeber Jesus pretty much defeated satan by declaring each time 'it is written' when battling the enemy during his temptation and satan left him alone. But ultimately Jesus won the battle by his blood and rising again..demons cannot stand the blood of Christ, its alive. It will never die.

 

[Sojourner1]

Now is a bad time for me to read the Bible. The reason why is since the Holy Spirit is not in me, I won't feel inspired while reading the texts.

If you are a Christian then the Holy Spirit permanently lives within you and never leaves. We can do things that quench the Holy Spirit, but He is always there.

 

[Cyprezz]

Doesn't matter how we're feeling. You might have had the worst day anyone has ever had; the Truth doesn't change:

You are you. You are wonderful. You are loved.

 

[mcarmichael]

sounds like a dissociative episode. take a hot shower, use good soap and a handtowel.

 

[dqhall]

I do not have to tell God what to do. God already knows. I might get directions from God, but should not let a lot of Godless chatter into my mind. I can think more clearly that way.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Buddy, the man is already confused enough without you promoting this kind of dangerous nonsense.

It is not dangerous nonsense, I have both experienced voices, and also been through the mental health system. The mental health system offers no solutions to the hearing of voices, they just put you on medication, medication which had terrible side effects for me. The mental heath staff don't hide the fact that people on these medications die earlier than those not on it.

If you have ever experienced voices you would know they are reasoning, demonically twisted to a degree intelligent. They reason with a person, trying to get them to turn to their way of thinking. Whether it be using persistent doubts, fears, or hatred. They oppose God, and everything good in a persons life. They are demons, not some form of biology.

I overcame a barrage of these thoughts purely by recognizing God's love for me, and turning to him in a persistent, and dedicated way. I now have 100% freedom, no voices, or as rare as hens teeth.

And all you people want to do is advise people to go into a system that does not understand God, demons, nor the bible, so they can be medicated up to their eyeballs, for no good reason.

You know nothing. If you have seen what I have been through, you would soon change your mind.

 

[Left]

I'm very confused right now, but FutureAndAHope, you might want to use a softer term than "idiots" so you don't get moderated by staff. Just looking out for ya.

 

[GeorgeJ]

It is not dangerous nonsense, I have both experienced voices, and also been through the mental health system. The mental health system offers no solutions to the hearing of voices, they just put you on medication, medication which had terrible side effects for me. The mental heath staff don't hide the fact that people on these medications die earlier than those not on it.

If you have ever experienced voices you would know they are reasoning, demonically twisted to a degree intelligent. They reason with a person, trying to get them to turn to their way of thinking. Whether it be using persistent doubts, fears, or hatred. They oppose God, and everything good in a persons life. They are demons, not some form of biology.

I overcame a barrage of these thoughts purely by recognizing God's love for me, and turning to him in a persistent, and dedicated way. I now have 100% freedom, no voices, or as rare as hens teeth.

And all you people want to do is advise people to go into a system that does not understand God, demons, nor the bible, so they can be medicated up to their eyeballs, for no good reason.

You know nothing. If you have seen what I have been through, you would soon change your mind.

I remain unmoved and still convinced that your advice is dangerous, unwarranted, and unneeded in this forum.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I'm very confused right now, but FutureAndAHope, you might want to use a softer term than "idiots" so you don't get moderated by staff. Just looking out for ya.

Yeah ... sorry ... should not have been so aggressive ... but too many well meaning people offer advice that will not help but harm the believer in the long run.

I mentioned in my post that God freed me from hearing voices, and he did. There is one verse of scripture that has really helped me and it is "Jesus became a curse for us that we may inherit the blessings of Abraham". Basically it means when Jesus died for us every curse was taken away, every demon, must leave, because of what Christ has done, we are a blessed not cursed people. Claim the blood of Jesus over your life, that no voice has any power due to the shed blood of Jesus. Do it persistently and forcefully.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I remain unmoved and still convinced that your advice is dangerous, unwarranted, and unneeded in this forum.

And on what basis do you say this. Certainly not God's word, Jesus did not come to set up mental health clinics he came to set at liberty those oppressed by the devil.

 

[dannheim]

Now is a bad time for me to read the Bible. The reason why is since the Holy Spirit is not in me, I won't feel inspired while reading the texts.

You are having a time of despair and probably feel like you are taking a walk in the desert. Just because you don't feel the holy spirit is present within you it does not mean it is so.
It is normal to feel this way from time to time and many of us come to realize that faith is more than just a feeling and during these walks in the desert our faith can grow by Leaps and Bounds

 

[Israel Douglas]

Yeah, I get that. I'm doubting my salvation hard right now, and I feel like I'm losing my gifts.

I understand exactly what you are going through. Some folks go through their walk with Christ and never doubt their salvation or at times doubt if there is a God at all. There are folks of which I am one of that have the Thomas Syndrome as I like to call it, that struggle with doubts of all kinds with their Christian faith. Some folks are just wired this way and others are not. Does this make you or me doomed to never be with God when our life on this earth is over?

No it does not, these thoughts and doubts are not from Christ but from the one who does his best to make us doubt and throws us in the vicious cycle of doubt. Once you have given your life to Christ, you are his lock stock and barrel. As a young 8 year old boy, I gave my life to Christ and was baptized soon thereafter. That young 8 year old boy meant it with all of his heart that he wanted to accept Christ and be counted as one of his own. Never let anyone tell you otherwise, Christ will never let go of you!

 

[Ajushi]

Where can we find this kind of church?

It would be great if you could find a good biblically solid church to be fed good biblical doctrines and life precepts. Not only on Sundays but midweek services and/or bible studies to help maintain focus and perspectives.

 

[SingUntoTheLord]

Dear TailsFox,

I stumbled across your thread this morning and having read it - and all of the various replies, I just had to respond to my heart and write a short post to you.

You mentioned in your original post that you were 'hearing voices' and then in a later reply to someone that the voices 'were not telling you to harm you yourself'. Two statements which rang such a bell of familiarity with me, as I have made both of those statements myself on numerous occasions over the years when describing my own personal experiences.

For me personally the voices are nearly always more of a self-critical nature than of a 'self-harming' nature. There are continually present although their intensity - in respect of volume and number - does vary. And the other statement which you made and which resonated familiarity so clearly to me - that of their 'causing you to doubt your salvation' is a frequent subtext or main feature depending on how intense they are.

I share this with you in the hope that you will be able to see that you are by no means alone in all this. And in fact, as someone who runs and international guild of Mental Health writers I can assure you that there are many Christians the world over who experience mental health challenges. Although, yes sadly so many of them do so in relative secret for fear of the reactions of their brothers and sisters in Christ.

Please know that you are on my heart and will be in my prayers and please also consider taking a look at Ephesians 6:10-18. For me personally, this passage has been such a wealth of reassurance, challenge, inspiration and indeed comfort. Especially at such times when the voices make such arguments as "You gave your life to Jesus - your whole life to Jesus, but you don't control the voices and can't control the voices and so can't give the voices to Jesus. So you haven't given your whole life to Jesus and therefore aren't fully saved." Which of course - when put up against the truth - whilst seeming a powerful argument, is a completely flawed argument.

In truth we are all in a battle and in warfare, and I say that not to imply that your battle and the warfare you experience on a daily basis within your mind is not important. Because in truth it is important because you are important to God. But I do say it in order to establish it as a battle and as warfare and to emphasise the need to put on the armour which Paul speaks of therefore.

In verse 17 of the Ephesians 6 passage I mentioned, Paul speaks of the 'helmet of salvation' and I believe there is great assurance and strength for you in that. Consider - if you will - the fact that it is a 'helmet' of salvation. And ask yourself why?

And - having done so - if you are also willing, also check out 2 Corinthians 10:1-6. Consider, if you will, how Paul tells us in verses 4 - 6...

"For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled."

Give specific consideration to the fact that no matter how strong a hold your voices may have on you at different times, God has given you mighty weapons specifically intended to bring down such strongholds. (verse 4)

Ones which (as we see in verse 5) are designed to cast down arguments and things which set themselves up against the knowledge of God. I can assure you that any voice that tells a believer, 'you are not saved' is directly setting itself against the word of God.

Dear TailsFox, from my own personal experience I can say, with some confidence, that what you experience is so very difficult and at times extremely painful to go through. But it is not too difficult or too painful nor does it exclude you from the Love of God. God the Father is just that our God and our Father and He is the beginning and the end. There is not one part of your being that He does not know intimately and He will bring you through this. Each and every day He will. The past 55 years of my life are proof of that and a testimony to His love and faithfulness.

I am mindful that this reply is already very long. So I will close it now by sharing one more thing with you. When asked to describe my voices I use several examples, one of which being that very often my voices are my thoughts but the angry critical ones, and sadly they are the ones who somehow got hold of megaphones.

In that same passage in 2 Corinthians 10 we are told that those same weapons God has granted us are also designed for "bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ". (verse 5) Megaphone or not my thoughts - those voices - are brought and will continue to be brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ! Are yours can be also.

God bless you.



"

 

[Darren Court]

The reality is that everyone has doubts. They are part and parcel of the range of human emotions. The fact you have doubts neither makes you unique or alone.

To deal with doubts and actually live in reality you have to do two things...

1) Identify your doubts. By this I mean don't ignore them, pretend they don't exist, keep going as if they aren't real, etc. Take each of your doubts head on, verbally and if necessary in writing. Yes write them out!

Often the mere process of identifying your doubts and writing them down puts them in a different light and they fail in that light.

2) Identify scripture that deals with each doubt.. These are the weapons you use against doubt. Some people can do this mentally and deal with doubts that way. Others need to write them down, put pictures of the scriptures around their house, recite them daily, etc. Whatever is necessary.

At a human level doubts are feelings and feelings are most often unreliable. Irrespective of religion we know this to be universally true. Everyone battles with feelings (to a greater or lesser degree) and to some extent battles with doubt are the same.

If you want to understand doubts better, take a look in the bible and see the author of doubt at work. i.e. Satan. How does he tempt Eve to eat the fruit? By introducing doubt...." but did God say 'You must not eat fruit..?" Here is the author of doubt in action. He whispers in your ears, your circumstances, etc to question the things you know full well. Just like Eve you know full well... and even if you're unsure you always have the bible, God and other Christians to affirm you. Eve CHOOSE to let her feelings (in this case desire for the fruit) to rule instead of letting what she knew (head) rule... and the consequences were dire.

You have the knowledge. You have the tools. You have support.... but at the end of the day you have to decide to cultivate the willpower in order to stand tall. Nobody can do this for you.... but remember you are not alone!

 

[Ajushi]

The devil is the accuser of the brethren

My limited understanding so far – [please let any reader choose your own and ask God for wisdom]:

The devil can attack the minds of a Christian anytime he wants anyway way he wants.
He has two basic frameworks from which he can attack:

one is to accuse us over sin we have done which has not been confessed to God and dealt with in prayers. These attacks are easily identified and dealt with once a Christian has a handle on it, and the devil loses his foothold and must change strategies to get you to do sin or to attack the mind in other ways they had nothing to do with whether the Christian did any uconfessed sin

The other frawemwork the devil seems to operate on is general attempts to mentally torment the Christian. This framework seems to be more common when the Christian has all their sin confessed and most or all strongholds broken and is walking in Holiness, so the devil has to up the ante and change his game.

Examples of these lies include but are not limited to:
your healing wasn't real,
you aren't saved,
your deliverence wasn't real,
you are under some new spiritual attack which you can't beat,
you have been taken out,
you aren't gonna make it,
and of course God doesn't love you or isn't coming through.

Those are all attacks against the mind that come from Satan in the spiritual realm, this is described in Ephesians were it talks about "the spirit of the air that worketh in the children of disobedience." That spirit of evil in the air largely controls the beliefs and behavior patterns of unbelievers, but towards Christians what it does instead is accuse and attack. It's desire of corisenis to get the children of God to believe and obey the spirit of the air

The greatest and most irrefutable evidence thet all these are in fact mental attacks from the devil, is evidenced by the fact that unbelievers don't have that problem. The devil already has them right where he wants them, and so his deception strategy against them is to keep them oblivious that the devil even exists at all and ignorant of the fact that they belong to the devil unless they believe in Jesus get born of the Holy Ghost and walk in Truth.

This is what we are being redeemed out of.

Personally I believe that experiencing God's tangible comfort through the Holy Spirit is absolutely crucial, as described in 2 Corinthians chapter 1 and many other scriptures. If I don't have it, I'm tortured. I recommend all Christians to really see that (ask God for it)

Two important things I want to add here – one is thet any sort of mental illness or other disease that torments the mind, including many endocrine diseases, and even harsh life circumstances such as sleep deprivation, starvation for human intimacy,
or malnutrition, or demonic torment, any of these can result in the mind being completely overwhelmed with the devil stuff, because the brain is so toxic with negativity.

However Jesus can do healing miracles of those diseases, and deliverences of demons, and there are also some people who see improvement with GAPS protocol and other methods.

The other point I wanted to add here is this is why we have marriage - so there is a deeply nurturing loving supportive relational dynamic. Also
as the command to love, comfort, and encourage one another amongst the brethren.

So these last two points I've made here are about the crucial importance of deliverance/healing, and of having human love and intimacy needs met. Otherwise it's a single, love-starved Christian against the devil.

It also seems to me that the devil despises it when any sort of territory is taken from him, and he usually counter attacks immediately

But Jesus gives us the victory

I'm losing my ability to discern the spirits (meaning the voices in my head, the ones from God vs. the ones from me), and am experiencing doubts about my faith. I'm not sure what to do.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi Tails,

you mentioned you are having doubts about your salvation. The bible is clear that while we are wanting repentance there is forgiveness. In Ezekiel God essentially asks "why die? just repent, cast off your past sins", Jesus said God's forgiveness is unending 77x7 for the one who is sorry for their sin. Paul said that the cross of Christ was a physical life for a physical life time of sins. Every sin you could possibly commit is covered. From the day you were born to the day you die your sins, all of them are covered. All you have to do is believe that you are forgiven.

As for the voices, I used to be plagued by them, to the degree I almost became a Satanist, murderer, and rapist. Yet God has totally delivered me, I don't hear the voices now. I don't have visions of demons, or feel fear that they may manifest.

To be free you must truly try to do away with sin, you will never be sinless, but you must try, strive to move away from sin. Also spend time each day in prayer, and bible reading. I would say at least one hour, 5 minutes won't cut the mustard when dealing with demons (voices), you must be connected to God's power. The bible says "pray that you enter not into temptation, and sin, the spirit is willing, but the flesh weak". God's spirit will empower you as you spend time on your knees.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Also just to add to the last post, you want to hear God's voice, and know how to distinguish the spirits. It is actually very hard to do. The bible says of Moses, "to him I will speak face to face, but to the other prophets in riddles hard to understand". God does not just, poof, bam, bang, like a genie speak to us. He often speaks in riddles, and we must be prepared to seek him hard to get the answer. Sorry it is just the way God works.

I am not saying He will never speak through us. When I witness God often tells me details about the person I am witnessing to. A few days ago He told me a man walking down the road toward me was a Muslim, a Suni muslim, when I asked him was he that he said yes I am, and it opened up conversation about Christ. He often will drop these things into my spirit. But all of these types of thing only happen through prayer, and bible reading. The bible says "Faith (even the faith to hear from God) comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (the words of Jesus in the bible).

People say we don't earn our salvation, and no we don't, but to act as God's representative, you must know God's heart. And it is one of love.

 

[Ray Blick]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

And a road map to spiritual energy...

1. Hope - Hope is something that we all live for.
2. Faith - The second spiritual constituent is faith, which opens the door to the temple. We must continue to keep our faith up, it is a lifelong thing.
3. Learned virtues - I Cor 13: Kindness, Politeness, Perfection, etc.
4. Charis: Greek for Grace.
5. Eucharisteo: Much Grace, Greek for gratitude
6. Charizomai: Well-favored - Kind of a mixture of love and hope.
7. Euchrestos: Greek for profitable... Let profitable thoughts rule the day!
8. Chairo: Greek for Cheer, "Cheerio Mate!"
9. Chara: Greek for joy... The joy of the Lord is your strength!
10. Chrestotes: Excellence in character
11. Charisma: Heavenly Graciousness - A charming character!
12. Chrisma: Heavenly Anointing The Holy Grail of Christianity!

Spiritual light dispels darkness....

1. Turn on the hope - Depression automatically turns off
2. Turn on the faith - Fear automatically turns off
3. Turn on the virtue - Vice automatically turns off
4. Turn on the love - Hate automatically turns off
5. Turn on the light - Darkness flees away

And sometimes you can turn on some constituent of light and have some other constituent of darkness automatically turn off as in...

1. Turn on the love - Fear automatically turns off

As the scripture has said...

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. - 1 John 4:18

To dwell in light also takes a life in which you motivate yourself to do well... As Zig Ziglar teaches...

Positionally the oppositions may be 'automatic' but honestly as clever as your theory on mental illness is concerned, have you ever experienced it?
You are advising a babe in Christ who is unsure about her position and 'hearing voices' with a clever theory.

This dear babe is tormented and you give her a formula!?

Mental illness needs to be treated by medication from a psychiatrist and good ongoing counselling and monitored regularly.

Experientially, we must choose to walk in the opposite direction eg. Love vs. hate and eventually we change as we transform our minds to the mind of Christ.

 

[DeerGlow]

Dear TailsFox,

I stumbled across your thread this morning and having read it - and all of the various replies, I just had to respond to my heart and write a short post to you.

You mentioned in your original post that you were 'hearing voices' and then in a later reply to someone that the voices 'were not telling you to harm you yourself'. Two statements which rang such a bell of familiarity with me, as I have made both of those statements myself on numerous occasions over the years when describing my own personal experiences.

For me personally the voices are nearly always more of a self-critical nature than of a 'self-harming' nature. There are continually present although their intensity - in respect of volume and number - does vary. And the other statement which you made and which resonated familiarity so clearly to me - that of their 'causing you to doubt your salvation' is a frequent subtext or main feature depending on how intense they are.

I share this with you in the hope that you will be able to see that you are by no means alone in all this. And in fact, as someone who runs and international guild of Mental Health writers I can assure you that there are many Christians the world over who experience mental health challenges. Although, yes sadly so many of them do so in relative secret for fear of the reactions of their brothers and sisters in Christ.

Please know that you are on my heart and will be in my prayers and please also consider taking a look at Ephesians 6:10-18. For me personally, this passage has been such a wealth of reassurance, challenge, inspiration and indeed comfort. Especially at such times when the voices make such arguments as "You gave your life to Jesus - your whole life to Jesus, but you don't control the voices and can't control the voices and so can't give the voices to Jesus. So you haven't given your whole life to Jesus and therefore aren't fully saved." Which of course - when put up against the truth - whilst seeming a powerful argument, is a completely flawed argument.

In truth we are all in a battle and in warfare, and I say that not to imply that your battle and the warfare you experience on a daily basis within your mind is not important. Because in truth it is important because you are important to God. But I do say it in order to establish it as a battle and as warfare and to emphasise the need to put on the armour which Paul speaks of therefore.

In verse 17 of the Ephesians 6 passage I mentioned, Paul speaks of the 'helmet of salvation' and I believe there is great assurance and strength for you in that. Consider - if you will - the fact that it is a 'helmet' of salvation. And ask yourself why?

And - having done so - if you are also willing, also check out 2 Corinthians 10:1-6. Consider, if you will, how Paul tells us in verses 4 - 6...

"For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled."

Give specific consideration to the fact that no matter how strong a hold your voices may have on you at different times, God has given you mighty weapons specifically intended to bring down such strongholds. (verse 4)

Ones which (as we see in verse 5) are designed to cast down arguments and things which set themselves up against the knowledge of God. I can assure you that any voice that tells a believer, 'you are not saved' is directly setting itself against the word of God.

Dear TailsFox, from my own personal experience I can say, with some confidence, that what you experience is so very difficult and at times extremely painful to go through. But it is not too difficult or too painful nor does it exclude you from the Love of God. God the Father is just that our God and our Father and He is the beginning and the end. There is not one part of your being that He does not know intimately and He will bring you through this. Each and every day He will. The past 55 years of my life are proof of that and a testimony to His love and faithfulness.

I am mindful that this reply is already very long. So I will close it now by sharing one more thing with you. When asked to describe my voices I use several examples, one of which being that very often my voices are my thoughts but the angry critical ones, and sadly they are the ones who somehow got hold of megaphones.

In that same passage in 2 Corinthians 10 we are told that those same weapons God has granted us are also designed for "bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ". (verse 5) Megaphone or not my thoughts - those voices - are brought and will continue to be brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ! Are yours can be also.

God bless you.



"

I don't know what to say about your voices. The voices I hear would go after me sometimes, "Hey [DeerGlow], you should be in a mental hospital!" or nonsense, or multiple voices all at once. Personally I meet this and several other signs of schizophrenia. You want scriptural help.... All I can think is this:

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11‬ ‭ESV‬‬

With Ephesians, this makes me think for you, bible studies would help you. Use the Word as someone else said as what you know is from God. Hope this helps.