Exodus is not supported by archaeology.

[sjastro]

May I suggest that you contact an ancient history department in Israel. Ask them about the history of Israel.

I'd get the same answer if I contacted any history department that Exodus is not based on history.
The Jewish Virtual Library article on the Hyksos is based on archaeological evidence and makes the following reference about Exodus.

Manetho called these Asiatic invaders "Hyksos" and interpreted their name as meaning "king-shepherds" (1:82), although Josephus claims Manetho also had an alternative interpretation, "captive shepherds" (1:83, 91). Josephus identified the Hyksos as the patriarchal Jews, equating their appearance in Egypt with the *Joseph story in Genesis and their subsequent expulsion with the biblical tale of *Exodus. He made this identification partially following Manetho who made the expelled Hyksos, together with a host of lepers, the founders of Jerusalem, and partially because the Hyksos were "shepherds" and "captives" and, indeed, "sheep-breeding was a hereditary custom of our remotest ancestors" (1:91) and "Joseph told the king of Egypt that he was a captive" (1:92). Following assumptions of Manetho and Josephus some scholars have attempted to set the Exodus within the chronological framework of the 18th Dynasty, but with little success. There is no warrant either in the Bible or outside it for simply equating the Hyksos with the later Hebrews, although it is not impossible that some of the latter may have been ultimately descended from some of the Hyksos. Of special significance is the fact that some of the Hyksos rulers bore names echoed in the Bible, e.g., Yaʿqb-hr; and that one of the kings of the period is named Shesha which is similar to the name Sheshai, one of the ruling families in Kiriath-Arba (Judg. 1:10).

 

[Astrid]

Perhaps there's a flaw in the way we understand geology and carbon dating? Science is ever changing based on human understanding. What we may understand as indisputable fact may be disproved 50 years from now. Otherwise, why dismiss a science textbook publish in the 1970s?

I checked the sources, and yes the pages do appear missing, being rather old. If physical issues of those sources are still around (if they exist at all), then those are certainly worth collecting. Keeping a personal note on these ones. There are also Wikipedia pages about these, if you're interested.

I wish you well

 

[Rene Loup]

I wish you well

God bless.

 

[Rene Loup]

There are several possible reasons why archeology finds no evidence of the slavery of the hebrews. But this isn’t one of them. There is no reason for scientists and archeologists to not be accurate about their discoveries and hypotheses.

They can be bought like anyone else:

"“Companies do this all the time. They support researchers of various universities looking at problems that relate to them,” said Wharton marketing professor Jason Riis, whose research focus is on consumer health. “Of course they’re going to put the money where they hope the story [would] go in the direction that favors them.”"

"The first prong in the tobacco industry’s strategy to influence data on risk has been sponsorship of research designed to produce findings that are favorable to the industry. Direct funding of research serves several purposes for the tobacco industry. Industry-supported research can be disseminated directly to policy makers and the lay press. Support for research can provide good public relations for the tobacco industry by portraying it as philanthropic. Last, funding of research can increase the credibility of the industry. One of the criteria that Philip Morris’ Worldwide Scientific Affairs Program considered during the 1990s when deciding whether to approve a given research application was whether the research would enhance the credibility of the company.25 The tobacco industry funded research through its trade association, the Tobacco Institute, 26,27 internally (e.g., internal company research), externally (e.g., by supporting the research of scientific consultants), and through sponsored research organizations. Tobacco industry lawyers and executives were involved in the selection of the research that was funded. Most of this research did not undergo any form of scientific peer review, but was funded on the basis of its potential to protect the interests of the companies. 26,27"

"Two studies have been cited by those claiming that the MMR vaccine causes autism. Both studies are critically flawed.... This study was subsequently retracted; in scientific terms, this means that the paper is not part of the scientific record because it was found to be based on scientific misconduct. In this case, the studies were deemed fraudulent and data misrepresented."

Science is no longer a handful of curious geniuses, it's now an industry. Everyone has a price whether it's money, prestige, and/or belief in an afterlife. Does anyone on Earth have unshakable moral character? Who and why?

Corruption exists, even in the church. Can anyone honestly say otherwise? Why?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

They can be bought like anyone else:

"“Companies do this all the time. They support researchers of various universities looking at problems that relate to them,” said Wharton marketing professor Jason Riis, whose research focus is on consumer health. “Of course they’re going to put the money where they hope the story [would] go in the direction that favors them.”"

"The first prong in the tobacco industry’s strategy to influence data on risk has been sponsorship of research designed to produce findings that are favorable to the industry. Direct funding of research serves several purposes for the tobacco industry. Industry-supported research can be disseminated directly to policy makers and the lay press. Support for research can provide good public relations for the tobacco industry by portraying it as philanthropic. Last, funding of research can increase the credibility of the industry. One of the criteria that Philip Morris’ Worldwide Scientific Affairs Program considered during the 1990s when deciding whether to approve a given research application was whether the research would enhance the credibility of the company.25 The tobacco industry funded research through its trade association, the Tobacco Institute, 26,27 internally (e.g., internal company research), externally (e.g., by supporting the research of scientific consultants), and through sponsored research organizations. Tobacco industry lawyers and executives were involved in the selection of the research that was funded. Most of this research did not undergo any form of scientific peer review, but was funded on the basis of its potential to protect the interests of the companies. 26,27"

"Two studies have been cited by those claiming that the MMR vaccine causes autism. Both studies are critically flawed.... This study was subsequently retracted; in scientific terms, this means that the paper is not part of the scientific record because it was found to be based on scientific misconduct. In this case, the studies were deemed fraudulent and data misrepresented."

Science is no longer a handful of curious geniuses, it's now an industry. Everyone has a price whether it's money, prestige, and/or belief in an afterlife. Does anyone on Earth have unshakable moral character? Who and why?

Corruption exists, even in the church. Can anyone honestly say otherwise? Why?

That suggestion seems rather far-fetched - a conspiracy theory, even. Companies that employ researchers may be able to bias, suppress, and otherwise influence the published results for financial advantage, but who would have the power and money to buy off the numerous archaeologists & historians working in that field, and what would be their incentive?

 

[Astrid]

That suggestion seems rather far-fetched - a conspiracy theory, even. Companies that employ researchers may be able to bias, suppress, and otherwise influence the published results for financial advantage, but who would have the power and money to buy off the numerous archaeologists & historians working in that field, and what would be their incentive?

Odd, isnt it how people who gulp down the most outlandish
Woo woo are so hyperskeptical of actual researchers
that they concoct yet more woowoo to prove that science
cant be trusted.

 

[Astrid]

They can be bought like anyone else:

"“Companies do this all the time. They support researchers of various universities looking at problems that relate to them,” said Wharton marketing professor Jason Riis, whose research focus is on consumer health. “Of course they’re going to put the money where they hope the story [would] go in the direction that favors them.”"

"The first prong in the tobacco industry’s strategy to influence data on risk has been sponsorship of research designed to produce findings that are favorable to the industry. Direct funding of research serves several purposes for the tobacco industry. Industry-supported research can be disseminated directly to policy makers and the lay press. Support for research can provide good public relations for the tobacco industry by portraying it as philanthropic. Last, funding of research can increase the credibility of the industry. One of the criteria that Philip Morris’ Worldwide Scientific Affairs Program considered during the 1990s when deciding whether to approve a given research application was whether the research would enhance the credibility of the company.25 The tobacco industry funded research through its trade association, the Tobacco Institute, 26,27 internally (e.g., internal company research), externally (e.g., by supporting the research of scientific consultants), and through sponsored research organizations. Tobacco industry lawyers and executives were involved in the selection of the research that was funded. Most of this research did not undergo any form of scientific peer review, but was funded on the basis of its potential to protect the interests of the companies. 26,27"

"Two studies have been cited by those claiming that the MMR vaccine causes autism. Both studies are critically flawed.... This study was subsequently retracted; in scientific terms, this means that the paper is not part of the scientific record because it was found to be based on scientific misconduct. In this case, the studies were deemed fraudulent and data misrepresented."

Science is no longer a handful of curious geniuses, it's now an industry. Everyone has a price whether it's money, prestige, and/or belief in an afterlife. Does anyone on Earth have unshakable moral character? Who and why?

Corruption exists, even in the church. Can anyone honestly say otherwise? Why?

Is your integrity for sale?

 

[AV1611VET]

That suggestion seems rather far-fetched - a conspiracy theory, even. Companies that employ researchers may be able to bias, suppress, and otherwise influence the published results for financial advantage, but who would have the power and money to buy off the numerous archaeologists & historians working in that field, and what would be their incentive?

QV please: Scientific Integrity and Research Misconduct

 

[Rene Loup]

That suggestion seems rather far-fetched - a conspiracy theory, even. Companies that employ researchers may be able to bias, suppress, and otherwise influence the published results for financial advantage, but who would have the power and money to buy off the numerous archaeologists & historians working in that field, and what would be their incentive?

The Parable of the Shrewd Manager
1 Jesus told his disciples: “There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. 2 So he called him in and asked him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management, because you cannot be manager any longer.’

3 “The manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do now? My master is taking away my job. I’m not strong enough to dig, and I’m ashamed to beg— 4 I know what I’ll do so that, when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses.’

5 “So he called in each one of his master’s debtors. He asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’

6 “‘Nine hundred gallons of olive oil,’ he replied.

“The manager told him, ‘Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it four hundred and fifty.’

7 “Then he asked the second, ‘And how much do you owe?’

“‘A thousand bushels of wheat,’ he replied.

“He told him, ‘Take your bill and make it eight hundred.’

8 “The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. 9 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. 11 So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? 12 And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?

13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

~Luke 16:1-15 (NIV)

The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

~Luke 16:19-31 (NIV)

Luke 16 KJV,NKJV,NIV,ICB - And he said also unto his disciples, - Bible Gateway

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

~1 Timothy 6:6-10 (NIV)

1 Tim 6 KJV,NKJV,NIV,ICB - Let as many servants as are under the - Bible Gateway

I often like to compare unrestrained capitalism to the Highlander movies: Many immortals throughout history battling each other for The Prize: Ultimate power over the world. In the end, there can be only one. The above Scripture are just some of many passages warning about the dangers of greed; much to the chagrin of Prosperity Gospel supporters. James 5:1-6, Luke 12:13-21, Rev. 6:12-17, and 2 Tim. 3:1-5 are also good reads. The Lord Jesus Christ and the Rich Young Ruler is the most famous Bible story on this, but not the only one. Trust me, throwing everything away for the Gospel’s sake is MUCH, MUCH harder than it sounds. If this can be considered a lack of faith, at least the effort is being made. What's the excuse for not trying at all (Ezek. 3:16-27)?

An educated population can be dangerous to the powerful, can they not?[1][2][3] Does it have to be a single entity suppressing Christian evidence for selfish gain? [1][2] Why?

The Book of Revelation is a very good read. Highly recommended.

 

[Rene Loup]

Is your integrity for sale?

I'm fully bought and paid for by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 13, John 3:16, 6:28-29, Eph. 2:8-10, Heb. 11, James 2:14-26, Rom. 3:23). I now play by His rules (1 John 4:1-6, Luke 16:1-15, 1 Pet. 3:15-17, 1 Thess. 5:16-22, 2 Tim. 3:15-17). Stephen is an excellent example of this in action.

Let me be known by my fruits (Gal. 5:13-26, John 15:1-27, Luke 6:27-45, Matt. 7:12-29, 12:7, 12:33-37, Rom 3:23), not by my lip service (James 3, Mark 7:1-23, Matt. 12:36-37, 15:1-20, Prov. 16:18, 18:21). Lead by example or be made an example of (John 13:1-17, 14:15-31, Luke 11:37-12:3, Matt. 25:31-46).

What about yours? Do you believe in The Golden Rule (1 Cor. 13, Ex. 20:1-17, Luke 6:31, Matt. 7:12, 22:34-40, Rom. 13:8-10)? Why is that?

 

[Astrid]

I'm fully bought and paid for by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 13, John 3:16, 6:28-29, Eph. 2:8-10, Heb. 11, James 2:14-26, Rom. 3:23). I now play by His rules (1 John 4:1-6, Luke 16:1-15, 1 Pet. 3:15-17, 1 Thess. 5:16-22, 2 Tim. 3:15-17). Stephen is an excellent example of this in action.

Let me be known by my fruits (Gal. 5:13-26, John 15:1-27, Luke 6:27-45, Matt. 7:12-29, 12:7, 12:33-37, Rom 3:23), not by my lip service (James 3, Mark 7:1-23, Matt. 12:36-37, 15:1-20, Prov. 16:18, 18:21). Lead by example or be made an example of (John 13:1-17, 14:15-31, Luke 11:37-12:3, Matt. 25:31-46).

What about yours? Do you believe in The Golden Rule (1 Cor. 13, Ex. 20:1-17, Luke 6:31, Matt. 7:12, 22:34-40, Rom. 13:8-10)? Why is that?

We learn the golden rule in Chinese culture.

Do you apply it when judging the integrity of
people you will never meet, and placing yourself
above them?

 

[Rene Loup]

Odd, isnt it how people who gulp down the most outlandish
Woo woo are so hyperskeptical of actual researchers
that they concoct yet more woowoo to prove that science
cant be trusted.

For the record, I'm not against the sciences nor their respective experts. The point I'm trying to make is that we're flawed, we make mistakes, and have our own biases and agendas. Corruption exists, even in the church. Otherwise, we'd already be in Heaven. Do you agree? Why or why not?

When science is used to solve all of our problems as a complete replacement for religion, we're simply repeating history again. It's called, "The Age of Intellect," and it's the second last era before an empire's fall.[1][2]

If anything, I'm most skeptical of the inherent goodness of human beings. I could very well be wrong in many of my posts (as I have been before), so we need to exchange ideas, learn from them, and grow in Christ-like character. Are any of us all-knowing? How can we learn anything without evidence-based arguments in a Christ-like manner? By refusing to do so, are we not behaving more like bullies than intellectuals? Why?

I'm putting my faith in God, not in man (Jer. 17:9, Josh 24:15, Rom. 3:23). The latter consistently lets me down. Why do I believe The Holy Bible, with the exception of two passages,[1][2][3][4] is the infallible word of God? Because I'm living it.

1. The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival (1976) - Sir John Bagot Glubb - XX The inadequacy of intellect - pg. 12 - "Perhaps the most dangerous by-product of the Age of Intellect is the unconscious growth of the idea that the human brain can solve the problems of the world. Even on the low level of practical affairs this is patently untrue. Any small human activity, the local bowls club or the ladies’ luncheon club, requires for its survival a measure of self-sacrifice and service on the part of the members. In a wider national sphere, the survival of the nation depends basically on the loyalty and self-sacrifice of the citizens. The impression that the situation can be saved by mental cleverness, without unselfishness or human self-dedication, can only lead to collapse."
2. The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival (1976) - Sir John Bagot Glubb - XXIX Religion - pg. 18 - "We are probably too narrow and contemptuous in our interpretation of idol worship. The people of ancient civilisations were as sensible as we are, and would scarcely have been so foolish as to worship sticks and stones fashioned by their own hands. The idol was for them merely a symbol, and represented an unknown, spiritual reality, which controlled the lives of men and demanded human obedience to its moral precepts... But this spirit of dedication was slowly eroded in the Age of Commerce by the action of money. People make money for themselves, not for their country. Thus periods of affluence gradually dissolved the spirit of service, which had caused the rise of
   the imperial races. In due course, selfishness permeated the community, the coherence of which was weakened until disintegration was threatened. Then, as we have seen, came the period of pessimism with the accompanying spirit of frivolity and sensual indulgence, byproducts of despair. It was inevitable at such times that men should look back yearningly to the days of ‘religion’, when the spirit of self-sacrifice was still strong enough to make men ready to give and to serve, rather than to snatch."

 

[Rene Loup]

We learn the golden rule in Chinese culture.

As I did in Judeo-Christian culture.

Do you apply it when judging the integrity of
people you will never meet, and placing yourself
above them?

So far, all I see is you attacking my character, not my arguments. Golden Rule. I'm now choosing to walk away from this conversation with you. God bless.

 

[Astrid]

.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

QV please: Scientific Integrity and Research Misconduct

How does that address my question?

 

[Astrid]

As I did in Judeo-Christian culture.



So far, all I see is you attacking my character, not my arguments. Golden Rule. I'm now choosing to walk away from this conversation with you. God bless.

If my words are false i will leave CF and never be seen again.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

An educated population can be dangerous to the powerful, can they not?[1][2][3] Does it have to be a single entity suppressing Christian evidence for selfish gain? [1][2] Why?

So, to repeat the question, who do you think would have the power and money to buy off the numerous archaeologists & historians working in that field, and what would be their incentive?

The Book of Revelation is a very good read. Highly recommended.

Been there, done that.

 

[sjastro]

Climate scientists and astrophysicists to name a few are apparently not the only targets for anti-intellectualism but archaeologists as well.

 

[AV1611VET]

We learn the golden rule in Chinese culture.

Good.

It's nice to know a principle of the Bible is taught in Chinese culture.

 

[sjastro]

It's nice to know a principle of the Bible is taught in Chinese culture.

What a pathetically patronizing post.