Exodus is not supported by archaeology.

[dqhall]

First of all let me emphasize this is not a Bible bashing post unlike how some individuals who have turned this forum into science bashing events.

There are two distinctly different descriptions about the presence of a Semitic speaking people in ancient Egypt; the biblical account through Exodus where the population grew over a four hundred year period before being enslaved by the Pharaoh who considered the Israelites could form a fifth column in Egypt.

Then there is the account from the ancient Egyptians themselves which paints a very different picture.
The Greek/Egyptian historian Manetho writing around 300 BC describing events that occurred around 1300 years earlier.



Manetho labeled these invaders as Hyksos or Shepherd kings.
The Hyksos eventually controlled Lower and Middle Egypt while the Pharaohs preserved some control as vassals of the Hyksos in Upper Egypt.
Eventually there was a war of independence where the Egyptians were able to drive the Hyksos out of Egypt.

These are two conflicting cases of the Semitic speaking people in ancient Egypt being either an enslaved people in Exodus or ruthless invaders and conquerors as described by Manetho.
While there is zero archaeological evidence of the Exodus account, the presence of the Hyksos in Egypt is undisputed.

There is the widespread distribution of Hyksos scarabs throughout Egypt such as this example bearing the name of their king Apophis.

Then there is Kamose Stela describing the war of independence began by Seqenenra Taa and Kamose.

Sequenenra Taa met a gruesome end.

Archaeology supports Manetho’s version except there was no invasion of the Delta but a gradual settlement followed by controlling the rest of Egypt.
New Research Reveals Surprising Origins of Egypt's Hyksos Dynasty | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine.

The Middle Bronze Age people of Canaan (Israel) built fortified towns in Canaan. Middle Bronze Age ramparts have been described by some as Hyksos. They coincide with the Hyksos occupation of Egypt. These rampart cities may have been destroyed by Egyptian military campaigns after the Hyksos were defeated in Egypt.
https://ancient-world-project.nes.l...PALESTINE_BA_Dever-1984_Middle-Bronze-Age.pdf

 

[dqhall]

Historically speaking, a good many scholars would assert the psalms predated and informed the written account of Exodus, which there is a good amount of material from the psalms to work with.

Psalm 137 is about the time of the Babylonian Exile. It could not be written by David.
“By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.”

 

[Abaxvahl]

Psalm 137 is about the time of the Babylonian Exile. It could not be written by David.
“By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.”

Stuff like this is why he is considered to be a Prophet-King. Seeing the inner life of the Holy Trinity, prophesying events concerning Christ, the Church, Israel, the Blessed Virgin, etc.

 

[dqhall]

Stuff like this is why he is considered to be a Prophet-King. Seeing the inner life of the Holy Trinity, prophesying events concerning Christ, the Church, Israel, the Blessed Virgin, etc.

He could not have written Nehemiah either.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Seeing as how the Egyptians had a custom of not recording their defeats, but only victories, I wouldn't be surprised that they didn't keep such a humiliating event preserved in stone for 3500 years.

However I have seen a lot of evidence for the Exodus, besides the Bible. I am not sure if the Hyksos were the Hebrews but the Habiru were recorded by the Egyptians. Habiru and Hebrew are almost the same word.

I highly recommend "The Exodus Conspiracy" and "The Exodus Revealed". There is a lot of evidence of the Israelites wandering the wilderness.

 

[durangodawood]

How many Hebrews were exiled in Egypt according to the Bible?

 

[AV1611VET]

How many Hebrews were exiled in Egypt according to the Bible?

Exodus 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.

 

[public hermit]

Exodus 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.

That's a lot of folks. Did that many exist on earth at that time? What are the estimates?

 

[AV1611VET]

That's a lot of folks.

Sure is.

Exodus 1:20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

Did that many exist on earth at that time?

Affirmative.

What are the estimates?

Some think 2 million Hebrews left Egypt with Moses.

 

[ruthiesea]

What's stopping agenda driven scientists and archaeologists from doing the same, especially when paid by commission?

There are several possible reasons why archeology finds no evidence of the slavery of the hebrews. But this isn’t one of them. There is no reason for scientists and archeologists to not be accurate about their discoveries and hypotheses.

 

[sjastro]

That is fascinating; I've always wondered about the Hyksos. It does present two very different narratives, but enough overlap, perhaps, to make a case that the Hyksos are what became the Hebrews. Or, the Exodus account is the oppressors' account?

The gradual settling could be read as Joseph's family moving on in. Joseph's folks gained power and then lost it.

Then again, what about Egyptian archeology? I wonder about the expectation that Egyptians would hold a record of something like the Exodus account. History is written by the winners, right? Why would they preserve their own defeat by a God of slaves? Or, rather, would it be to their advantage to paint the Hyksos (Hebrews) as oppressors?

You can't overlap the narratives.
The Hyksos were the ruling class in Egypt, the Hebrews were slaves.
There are similarities between the two as shown in this video.

The Egyptians themselves provided plenty of evidence for the Hyksos occupation.
The 19th dynasty papyrus Turin King List compiled about 300 years after the expulsion of the Hyksos recognized their kings as pharaohs of Egypt.
From this and other archaeological information the 15th dynasty was Hyksos.

The dead giveaway is the names of the pharaohs of the 15th dynasty are not Egyptian but Semitic.

 

[public hermit]

You can't overlap the narratives.
The Hyksos were the ruling class in Egypt, the Hebrews were slaves.
There are similarities between the two as shown in this video.

The Egyptians themselves provided plenty of evidence for the Hyksos occupation.
The 19th dynasty papyrus Turin King List compiled about 300 years after the expulsion of the Hyksos recognized their kings as pharaohs of Egypt.
From this and other archaeological information the 15th dynasty was Hyksos.

The dead giveaway is the names of the pharaohs of the 15th dynasty are not Egyptian but Semitic.

Thank you. Are you saying the Hyksos could have been what eventually became the Hebrews or no? I know there's disagreement on this, so I'm just asking.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Ancient Egyptian Literature and the Habiru

Some Exodus proof

 

[sjastro]

Thank you. Are you saying the Hyksos could have been what eventually became the Hebrews or no? I know there's disagreement on this, so I'm just asking.

They couldn't have become Hebrews.
The Hyksos that were driven out of Egypt cannot be identified as Hebrews as their religion was not monotheistic.

Temples in Avaris existed both in Egyptian and Levantine style, the latter presumably for Levantine gods.[181] The Hyksos are known to have worshiped the Canaanite storm god Baal, who was associated with the Egyptian god Set.[182] Set appears to have been the patron god of Avaris as early as the Fourteenth Dynasty.[183] Hyksos iconography of their kings on some scarabs shows a mixture of Egyptian pharaonic dress with a raised club, the iconography of Baal.[12] Despite later sources claiming the Hyksos were opposed to the worship of other gods, votive objects given by Hyksos rulers to gods such as Ra, Hathor, Sobek, and Wadjet have also survived.

 

[sjastro]

The 2019 forensic examination of the mummy of the Seqenenre-Taa mentioned in post #1 indicated the pharaoh was not killed in battle but more likely executed by the Hyksos.
Here is the report.

We confirm in this CT study that Seqenenre’s craniofacial injuries were inflicted around the time of the King’s death (perimortem) as there is no evidence of healing. Such severe craniofacial trauma could have caused fatal shock, blood loss, and/or intracranial trauma.

The variety in attack angle, as well the wide range of weapons we believe to have caused the King’s injuries, indicate that Seqenenre was killed in battle by numerous enemy attackers. The match between weapons and the morphology of the injuries strongly suggests that Seqenenre was killed during a war between the Egyptians and the Hyksos.

We argue that Seqenenre fought the Hyksos, was captured, and that his hands were cuffed.[…] We assume that the King was at a lower position than his assailant(s), possibly kneeling at least for some time during the attack. This position explains the high forehead injury that could have been the first blow the king received, inflicted by a sword or an ax. The strong hit must have caused the King to fall down, possibly on his back. The King may have received several attacks from the assailant with the Hyksos battle ax, possibly using its blade to inflict the fracture above the right eyebrow (right supra-orbital). Then a thick stick (possibly the handle of the ax) was used to smash the nose and the right eye of the King. The assailant hit the King’s left side of the face with the ax. Another assailant at the left side used a spear horizontally to pierce deeply the lower part of the left ear (mastoid) and reached the foramen magnum. We assume that the King was dead at this point, and that his body was rolled to lie at his left side where he received several blows to the right side of the skull possibly by a dagger. The dead King likely stayed lying down on his left side for some time enough for the body to start decomposition as the brain shifted to this dependent side.

CT scans of Egyptian mummy reveal new details about the death of a pivotal pharaoh

 

[AV1611VET]

They couldn't have become Hebrews.
The Hyksos that were driven out of Egypt cannot be identified as Hebrews as their religion was not monotheistic.

"Driven out of Egypt"?

Moses: Let my people go.
Pharaoh: Nope.
God: Go, and I'll shut the door behind you.

Exodus 14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

 

[loveofourlord]

The biggest problem with the exedous is 3 million people fleeing, loss of the pharoh and much of his army would be impossible to hide that would disrupt egypt for years. PLUS lets not forget that canaan was under egyptian control at the time, so they be fleeing egypt into the egyptian army, wich would notice again, 3 million people going through their teritory.

 

[loveofourlord]

I personally wouldn't expect any record of something like this from Egypt, for when reading the Psalms concerning their defeat and the full Exodus account it is clear that their civilization was destroyed by God up to that point. Just count the plagues and the effects of them in the account and the Psalms, there was hardly anything left by the time God was through, and God knows how much of the population was left after what would've definitely been mass starvation.

BUT such things would be impossible to hide. Losing millions of slaves, loss of the pharoh the army the damage as you said, that would leave a scar that be impossible to hide for years if not decades. We know when other kingdoms and such change history because stuff doesn't line up.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I think over 100,000 manuscripts were lost when the library in Alexandria burned. That is just one library in Egypt. The record of the Exodus is preserved in the Bible. That is a source of evidence.

There are entire civilizations that were lost to history. There are ruins all over the world, some of massive sizes, and archaeologists don't even know who built them.

The fact that we have any evidence at all for an event from 3,500 years ago is amazing enough already. There is plenty of evidence for the Exodus if you look for it.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I think over 100,000 manuscripts were lost when the library in Alexandria burned. That is just one library in Egypt. The record of the Exodus is preserved in the Bible. That is a source of evidence.

There are entire civilizations that were lost to history. There are ruins all over the world, some of massive sizes, and archaeologists don't even know who built them.

The fact that we have any evidence at all for an event from 3,500 years ago is amazing enough already. There is plenty of evidence for the Exodus if you look for it.