Ex Christians - why did you leave?

Rajni

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Hello, do you mind me asking what your 'born-again' experience was like?
Pretty much like any other, and it was a life-changer.
And some of the views you express, while not necessarily Satanic, are heretical and not conducive to a self professing Christian.
The question was asked why we left, so naturally the reasons won’t go down easily for those who remain on that particular spiritual path.
And I ask in which way do you feel 'more spiritual'?
I’m not sure I’m “more spiritual” – in fact, I can’t find in my post where I said that specifically.
 
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AV1611VET

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My question to those who have left the faith is this:

Why did you give up all this:

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


... for something else?
 
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Cormack

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Why did you give up all this

I think the scale of the promises (whether big or small) isn’t compelling if the thought of receiving the promises isn’t believable.

For example, lifelong criminals aren’t deterred from committing crime because of the harshness of the punishment involved if they’re caught, they resist the urge to commit crime because they believe they’ll be caught.

The bigness of the punishment means nothing to the man who thinks he’s uncatchable, but even a light punishment can cause fear if you think it’ll surely happen.

The promises of salvation and a new heart, the renewing of our minds, perfect peace and love are incredible, but to many posters here they’re not believable.

An incredible gift you worry you’ll never receive is more like a dangling carrot to taunt us.

That’s why I pushed back ever so slightly over against @RoseCrystal when they shared the issue was one of belief, not knowledge.

But greater knowledge and an ability to reason through these questions can make our beliefs strong.

More than great promises we need to know the promises are believable.
 
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AV1611VET

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I think the scale of the promises (whether big or small) isn’t compelling if the thought of receiving the promises isn’t believable.
Are you saying then, that anyone who vacates their faith was never saved in the first place?

I mean, if they didn't experience those things in the first place, then chances are they weren't saved to begin with.
 
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Cormack

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Are you saying then, that anyone who vacates their faith was never saved in the first place?

No I’m not saying that.

I’m saying the promise is only so good as our beliefs are strong, and our beliefs are only so strong as our reasons to believe.

Strong reasons to believe make for strong beliefs.

Maybe a person believed strongly at one point but less strongly later down the road.

Whatever the case may be I’m pointing out the promises only become wonderful promises when we believe. Treating belief like a raw energy, and not a fire that needs to be kindled, is a silly thing, not realistic.

I often taught my Sunday school class they can’t just tell me what they believe, they have to be able to tell me why they believe it.

Why is the fire wood for what.
 
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Greengardener

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I

Yes I have been there. almost died from it. Suicidal.

I still have my faith but that is because I choose to cling to one belief. Jesus loves me, this I know. for the Bible tells me so. am not sure of anything else but that

used to be unable to accept God could ever love me or forgive me as one as myself as trash but one day I realised I had to choose to have faith in what I couldn't see or feel....and since then God has continued to show me He cares for me and the Holy spirit has been working on my I've

But I have had to let go of a lot of the hellfire and damnation teachings i had been exposed to and the muscular "got to perform to be accepted" style Christianity...I have had to stop worrying and questioning so much and just accept that I don't really know anything at all except what Jesus did on the cross.

I do hope to grow and mature in my faith so I can share with others but at the !moment all I can cope with seems to be clinging onto the finished work of Jesus
Not to derail, but to mention here, in addressing the situation that many have a problem with the power tactics in any group, and the church seems to be no exception: Yes, it exists. No it is not sanctioned. A couple of thoughts for what it's worth. We were called to "feed His sheep," to "love one another," and Jesus Himself told His disciples that the religious leaders love to lord it over others, but those disciples were warned NOT to be like that. Add that in with what God wants us to know about Him, as expressed in Jeremiah and in Exodus - full of mercy and lovingkindness, delighting in righteousness and justice, and adding to that the story you can find in the back of the book, the later chapters of Revelation, where if you read it carefully, you don't see that hellfire until the only remaining candidates are the extreme unconvertible wicked - it paints a different picture than the historic hellfire preachers gave us. Be encouraged to read the book for yourself, look at the witness God Himself left for us to determine. If you find a more righteous loving Supreme One, let me know. I haven't yet. As for me, I wouldn't have any place better to go if I followed my own way instead of the path the Eternal set out for the people He made in His image. I already know m own (godless) path leads the wrong way and not to a satisfying life.

I really appreciate the original post. You are right to question Who to trust and what allegiance or allegiances your life should reflect. In asking, it's evident that you desire to live wholeheartedly. I hope the best for you.
 
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AV1611VET

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I think the scale of the promises (whether big or small) isn’t compelling if the thought of receiving the promises isn’t believable.
I don't think these are promises, per se.

I think salvation is a package deal, and these benefits come with the package.

If a company gives laptops to its newhires, and someone says, "I don't think I want to work there anymore," but they never had a laptop in the first place; I would say it's safe to assume they never worked there at all.

Consequently, if they did work there, why would they want to surrender their laptop to go somewhere else?

Note: For the record, I believe in Eternal Security, or "once saved, always saved."
 
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eleos1954

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No bad life experience, no bitterness, no anger against god, nothing like that at all. Just logically looking at the entire belief system and thinking 'do I really buy this?'

I think it was C.S. Lewis that put it this way ....

Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or He was the Son of God.

so I would expound on that ..... reading the Word of God .....

were these people (in the Bible) liars, lunatics? Do they come across that way? Not at all.

and this ... predicting the future and much of it verifiable according to other historical writings including secular sources

2 Peter 1:19

King James Version
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

Way too much wisdom in His Word as opposed to the "wisdom" of any man/men/mankind.

The Bible is unlike any other religious book. Despite forty authors writing from three continents over nearly two thousand years, it maintains a perfect consistency of message.

The Bible was written over a period of roughly 2,000 years by 40 different authors from three continents, who wrote in three different languages. These facts alone make the Bible one of a kind, but there are many more amazing details that defy natural explanation.

Despite writing in radically different times and contexts, the Bible’s many authors all told the same message about God’s eternal plan, from Creation and the Flood to Christ’s work on the Cross and the consummation of God’s plan. You can find the same truths stated by Moses and the Old Testament prophets, Christ Himself, and Christ’s apostles.

REMARKABLE (supernatural) and not just "happen chance" or a collection of philosophy and/or fairy tales.
 
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Carl Emerson

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My whole famiy is deeply christian, I have a great support system of christian role models, I don't want to worry them if this turns out to be nothing, and if it turns out to be something I want to be 100% sure befoore telling them.

The intellect will never result in 100% certainty.
 
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Cormack

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I don't think these are promises, per se.

I think salvation is a package deal, and these benefits come with the package.

The point is that the believability problem can bother anything we might promise or guarantee a person (regardless of our view on the nature of Gods gifts or OSAS.)

Whether or not someone was or wasn’t a believer according to your doctrinal distinctive, you would still talk about the promise of salvation. The promised Son. The promise of the Holy Spirit. Even the prospect of salvation. Yet without reason to believe all of those words are emptied of belief.

If I (a perfect stranger) promises you half of my kingdom in Ethiopia, while your lowly mailman promises to bring you a package he failed to deliver the day before, who’s offered you the more exciting prospect?

The mailman, why? Because princes from Africa on the internet are 100% scam artists, while your mailman actually delivers boxes for a living.

It’s not a virtue to believe your husband is a faithful man when you find the lipstick on his collar, the suspicious text messages on his phone or an absent bed while he sneaks out every night. It’s foolishness to believe he’s anything other than a love rat.

Belief in the husbands faithfulness is the problem (just like @RoseCrystal wrote,) but that belief in his faithfulness was weaken by the wife’s greater knowledge of the facts.

I don’t believe that happens in the case for Christ though, IMO ignorance convicts Him, knowledge vindicates Him. The more we know about the faith the brighter He shines, and the more we can rest in peace on those promises.

That’s why I snuck that recommendation to watch William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens into the thread earlier.

Your original point was why give up all of this for something else.

My point is that however good the this promise is, the something else (although it’s lesser in magnitude) could be seen as more believable, and as a result more attractive.

The plain man or woman you’re going to marry is 1000 times more exciting and life affirming than any supermodel you aren’t marrying.

Liar: I’ll give you 1 car!

Honest man: I’ll give you 1 taco.

@AV1611VET: I dunno, you’re both convincing guys.

Liar: Okay I’ll give you 4 cars, 2 jets and the keys to the kingdom of heaven!

@AV1611VET: SOLD!
 
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MehGuy

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There came a tipping point when I realized I had no evidence to justify a belief in a God. This is my official pure reason for no longer being a Christian. The enormous psychological problems I developed due to my faith mixing with my innate brain chemistry certainly did not help.

When I lost my faith I was in a pretty tangled mental mess. On one hand I've argued my OCD and worries about blaspheming the holy spirit propelled me to take my head out of the sand for the sake of my mental well being, yet at the same time the masochism of my faith made me naturally addicted to hanging around skeptics (often the ruder the better) who slowly ate away at my (admittedly strong) faith based foundations slowly throughout the years.

Regardless of the reasons, it led to my official and pure realization I stated initially.

I had pretty extreme mixed emotions about losing my faith. Some positive and some very negative.
 
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Jok

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People who are vulnerable to anxiety or obsession outside of the faith are still vulnerable to anxiety and obsession inside of the faith, they just find new ideas to obsess over.

Hypochondriacs (for example) aren’t instantly absolved of their affliction because they’ve become Christians, and in the worst case scenario they gain a kind of spiritual hypochondria as a companion piece to their earthly issues. Spiritual self harm is probably the best term for it.
Great observation, and very well said!
A healthy, loving and spiritually informed Christian family are our best defence (and response) against those feelings.
True, but even in that positive environment there are so many cases of a person’s spiritual self harm overpowering everything.
 
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Jok

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So now 10 years later I believe that God exists, but I don't believe in Christianity. I believe that God interacts with people in their native religious language. So a Christian might experience God while praying to Jesus, but while the experience is real it does not validate the divinity of Jesus. Same with a Muslim reciting verses from the Quran or a neopagan performing some ritual to their god.
I believe a tweaked version of this. I like you believe that God exists, and will grab ahold of you in your native religion, yet I believe that Jesus was the real deal. So for me it’s sort of like Jesus is David Hasselhoff saving you from drowning no matter who you intellectually believe it to be, ok so you might believe that it’s Pamela Anderson or The Rock pulling you out of the water but I hate to break it to you but it’s David Hasselhoff dragging you out lol.
 
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Cormack

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True, but even in that positive environment there are so many cases of a person’s spiritual self harm overpowering everything.

Perhaps because spiritual self harm (like most forms of self harm) happens in secret. Cutting, eating disorders, body image fears, they’re all secrets. People only want to share the positive victorious side to their lives, habits and personality, nobody wants to be seen as the toxic downer ruining everyone’s good time.

We see this victorious image thing every time a YouTube power couple get divorced or break up, the bigger the couple the bigger people’s reaction, there’s this massive online silence, comments section going crazy with speculation but nobody on the channel is prepared to point out the blindingly obvious.
 
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RoseCrystal

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Thank you to @RayJeena @cloudyday2 and @MehGuy for actually respecting the topic of the thread and sharing your experiences. I found your posts very helpful.

One of the biggest problems I have is the exclusivity of Christianity, the idea that the only way to be 'saved' and go to heaven is through Jesus, which dooms two-thirds of the population, it all seems a bit arrogant and naive. Plus its only been around for 2000 years, so that poses problems too.

What about devout Hindu's, or Buddhists or pagans or Wiccans or druids? Spirituality can take many forms in many different belief systems, I am finding it hard to believe that only one of those belief systems has a monopoly on peace in the afterlife.
 
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Robban

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The intellect will never result in 100% certainty.

The interllect is in the head, the head is connected to the body by a narrow channel so as to allow only a small trickle
down to the heart,

A persons heart cannot be penetrated by interllectual, academical talk.
 
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Robban

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With the heart it is thought that it is decietful by many.

Could well be because in the left side of the heart resides the "animal soul". (pumpstation)

The animal soul is driven by the quest for self-preservation and self-enhancement; in this, it resembles the soul and self of all other creatures.

But we have also a Godly soul which is driven by the desire to reconnect with its Source, it needs to be ignited.
 
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RoseCrystal

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Mmmm... That would seem to indicate lack of revelation - revelation knowledge is undeniable.

It is a direct communication between your spirit and the Holy Spirit.

Leaves you with no questions...
And if that revelation is leading me away from Christianity, would you still consider it revelation? Or is it only revelation when it agrees with christian ideals?
 
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RoseCrystal

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Still your list of reasons for doubting the faith are all head issues, things to do with knowledge, right? They’re not emotional and nobody has embittered you by being a jerk.

If you write it’s not a knowledge problem but a belief problem, I understand that to mean you no longer buy the things you’ve heard so far, or you’re shaky on it all, but insisting it’s not at all a knowledge thing is also to assume your current opinion on all of those topics up to speed and fully informed.

If your real problem was an absence of knowledge or solid principles of thought you wouldn’t know it. It’s like a lose lose situation.

Do you feel you’re fully informed and up to speed with the topics you’ve been shaken by?
As I said, I only mentioned a few of my issues, and the idea of this thread is to hear experiences of others who have LEFT Christianity, not well-meaning Christians trying to insist that I don't understand my faith or its principles (or perhaps think I'm in the wrong denomination) and therefore if I did I wouldn't feel the way I do.
The bottom line is I'm not sure I believe the whole Jesus story anymore, and if that falls, the whole thing falls. But again, that is not the point of this thread, the point is how do those who leave navigate it and find peace and avoid 'well-meaning' Christians trying to explain why they're wrong to leave and should come back.
 
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