Evolution's Brick Wall: Part II

[xianghua]

Common descent through evolution, takes place through billions of years worth of speciation events. Can't have one without the other.

yes we can. since we can get speciation without a single common descent for all creatures.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

yes we can. since we can get speciation without a single common descent for all creatures.

Yah, suddenly they want to ignore their claims of finches undergoing speciation within a matter of years......

Regardless its all an incorrect classification to begin with, but they argue against their own claims without realizing it.....

 

[Kylie]

I cited them. They are the light blue links to the best and only information available since today's Science has yet to discover most of the things shown there.

No, Bible passages are not citations.

Then please tell us of another source of information which reveals the true origin of Humans. (descendants of Adam) I take God's Word for it while waiting for today's most advanced scientists to discover what God told us in Genesis. It's coming but it's much slower than I would like. Have you noticed that God acts like He has all the time in the world?

That's the trouble. You've already decided that The Bible has to be the right answer, so you conclude anything that disagrees with that is wrong. That is a terrible way to find the truth. All it does is reinforce your own beliefs. It does absolutely NOTHING to verify that those beliefs are true.

 

[DogmaHunter]

yes we can.

No, you can't.

since we can get speciation without a single common descent for all creatures.

But the evidence doesn't support that.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Yah, suddenly they want to ignore their claims of finches undergoing speciation within a matter of years.

Lol. So you think E. Coli to Pan Paniscus is possible within a matter of years? Even with your ridiculous pre-loaded DNA that would take more than a few years.

 

[Jimmy D]

Yah, suddenly they want to ignore their claims of finches undergoing speciation within a matter of years......

A lie.

No one has ignored any finches. They have been discussed in great length on multiple occasions by most of the posters who have bothered engaging with you, as well as in the scientific research you frequently quote. You are only aware of them because they haven't been "ignored".

Regardless its all an incorrect classification to begin with, but they argue against their own claims without realizing it.....

You failure (or deliberate refusal) to understand taxonomy does not make it incorrect.

You remind me of that "proof" guy Kenny. You think that you've found some amazing flaw in the TOE and no amount of common sense explanation will stop you from steadfastly refusing to understand why you are wrong. It's quite sad to see, but also very tiresome when you repeatedly regurgitate it, whatever the topic is being discussed.

 

[xianghua]

No, you can't.



But the evidence doesn't support that.

we are talking about definitions now. so you claim that "Can't have one without the other" isnt true. we can get speciation without a single common descent for all creatures.

 

[Aman777]

No, Bible passages are not citations.

Sure they are. You are unable to understand.

That's the trouble. You've already decided that The Bible has to be the right answer, so you conclude anything that disagrees with that is wrong. That is a terrible way to find the truth. All it does is reinforce your own beliefs. It does absolutely NOTHING to verify that those beliefs are true.

False, since I support my views with the agreement of Scripture, science and history. At the present time science and history are willingly ignorant but empirical evidence has been left on Earth, which they will soon discover. A good example is the scientific fact that Humans today have the most superior intelligence above that of any other living creature. This, combined with the scientific fact that Humans today also contain the DNA and ERVs of prehistoric people, show that Genesis 6:4 is absolutely true IF you can understand it.

We KNOW where we got our DNA but where did we get our superior intelligence? Science doesn't know but falsely assumes that we MUST have evolved it since we have the DNA of prehistoric people, who lived millions of years ago, in our blood. History shows us that the first traits of modern Humans suddenly appeared in the mountains of Ararat, Genesis 8:4 upon Lake Van, Turkey where the Ark arrived with Adam's direct descendants, 11,000 years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE We INHERITED our superior intelligence from Adam whose intelligence was like God's Genesis 3:22 through Noah's grandsons who had NO other Humans to marry.

Today's modern Human civilization can be traced to northern Mesopotamia, which is in the valleys just below the mile high Lake Van. It's the Cradle of Civilization which the believers in the ToE have ignored since they worship the false ToE. Can you explain HOW mindless nature, randomly and only in Humans and which can never be repeated, installed the superior intelligence of God into prehistoric people? Of course not, unless you can understand Genesis 6:4. Amen?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Lol. So you think E. Coli to is possible within a matter of years? Even with your ridiculous pre-loaded DNA that would take more than a few years.

I don't think it is possible no matter how many years you claim you need. In case you didn't notice E coli in all experiments have remained E coli, and will ALWAYS remain E coli..... anything else is useless speculation which has never been observed or replicated in any experiment. So such assumptions are not scientific....

Just as a human that grew feathers instead of hair would still be human.......

Just as a chicken who's feather buds are arrested during development they once thought to be scales, and now know better.... But we still got to listen to you all preach your PR Hype of reptiles becoming birds......

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I don't think it is possible no matter how many years you claim you need. In case you didn't notice E coli in all experiments have remained E coli, and will ALWAYS remain E coli..... anything else is useless speculation which has never been observed or replicated in any experiment. So such assumptions are not scientific....

Just as a human that grew feathers instead of hair would still be human.......

Just as a chicken who's feather buds are arrested during development they once thought to be scales, and now know better.... But we still got to listen to you all preach your PR Hype of reptiles becoming birds......

Yet finches speciate? You aren't coherent and you have no idea, do you?

 

[Kylie]

Sure they are. You are unable to understand.

No they are not.

False, since I support my views with the agreement of Scripture, science and history. At the present time science and history are willingly ignorant but empirical evidence has been left on Earth, which they will soon discover. A good example is the scientific fact that Humans today have the most superior intelligence above that of any other living creature. This, combined with the scientific fact that Humans today also contain the DNA and ERVs of prehistoric people, show that Genesis 6:4 is absolutely true IF you can understand it.

We KNOW where we got our DNA but where did we get our superior intelligence? Science doesn't know but falsely assumes that we MUST have evolved it since we have the DNA of prehistoric people, who lived millions of years ago, in our blood. History shows us that the first traits of modern Humans suddenly appeared in the mountains of Ararat, Genesis 8:4 upon Lake Van, Turkey where the Ark arrived with Adam's direct descendants, 11,000 years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE We INHERITED our superior intelligence from Adam whose intelligence was like God's Genesis 3:22 through Noah's grandsons who had NO other Humans to marry.

Today's modern Human civilization can be traced to northern Mesopotamia, which is in the valleys just below the mile high Lake Van. It's the Cradle of Civilization which the believers in the ToE have ignored since they worship the false ToE. Can you explain HOW mindless nature, randomly and only in Humans and which can never be repeated, installed the superior intelligence of God into prehistoric people? Of course not, unless you can understand Genesis 6:4. Amen?

Once again you demonstrate that when it comes to evolution, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You're pretty bad with logical fallacies as well, since you commit so many of them.

 

[DogmaHunter]

we are talking about definitions now

Definitions don't direct reality.
Definitions should be in accordance with reality.
And that requires evidence.

so you claim that "Can't have one without the other" isnt true.

Except that it is.
You can't have evolution from a common ancestor without speciation.

we can get speciation without a single common descent for all creatures.

You're unsurprisingly misrepresenting what I said.
I didn't say that you can't have speciation without common descent.
I said that you can't have common descent, without speciation.


You understand that those two statements aren't the same, right?

Kind of like all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yet finches speciate? You aren't coherent and you have no idea, do you?

Only if you continue to incorrectly call finches mating right in front of your eyes separate species....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I said that you can't have common descent, without speciation.

And yet all dogs are descended from wolves and are the same species...... reality is common descent without speciation.

Bacteria producing bacteria, regardless of how they try to change them, common descent without speciation. That they then might incorrectly classify them.....

Fruit flies producing fruit flies, regardless of how they try to change them, common descent without speciation. That they then might incorrectly classify them.....

Oh, you mean we can’t pretend unrelated creatures are related without inserting “missing common ancestors” or incorrectly classifying finches mating right in front of their noses..... That is understandable....

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Oh, you mean we can’t pretend unrelated creatures are related without inserting “missing common ancestors” or incorrectly classifying finches mating right in front of their noses..... That is understandable....

No pretending required. Don't assume everyone suffers from your inability to grasp the basics.

Polar bears are direct descendants of brown bears. Handwave that away.

 

[Jjmcubbin]

None of those require an evolutionary belief.....

Hardy-weinberg has already been shown to be false. Wolves to poodles is not evolution nor did those alleles remain constant......

What he was actually saying is Kind after Kind, despite variation in appearance.....

They don't require a belief in evolution because they are evidence for it.

I see you are misunderstood about Hardy Weinberg. It's not proven false, it is an ideal equilibrium in a randomly mating population. And change (change in allele frequency) in it (which is always) means evolution is occuring.

I also see that you are misinformed about what evolution is. Wolves to dogs is evolution.

 

[tas8831]

Hardy-weinberg has already been shown to be false. Wolves to poodles is not evolution nor did those alleles remain constant......

These are the sorts of conclusions that someone who never bothered to learn about things like H-W produce.

Some actual information for the non-scientific creationists that want to portray themselves as having superior knowledge on these things:

Hardy-Weinberg equation | Learn Science at Scitable

The Hardy-Weinberg equation is a mathematical equation that can be used to calculate the genetic variation of a population at equilibrium.​

How would one even be able to show it to be false?? Justa's assertion is like saying the Pythagorean theorem is false because no matter how the triangle shape changes, it is still a triangle...

I also like this statement from justa:

"...nor did those alleles remain constant"


Sort of contradicts his usual claims about alleles and such.

Hilarious.

 

[Kylie]

@AV1611VET , since you didn't actually answer this question, are these two hedgehog tenrecs of the same kind?

The genus names are Boloceroides daphneae and Boloceroides mcmurrichi.

Also, you claimed that this situation was analagous to me askking you to solve a particular math equation, yet I refused to give you the value for N.

Afraid I can't help you then, if you're going to withhold a key piece of information from me.

Your challenge is the equivalent of:

Kylie: Tell me, AV, 2x + y = n
AV: Give me the value for n, and I'll give you the value for y.
Kylie: Nothing doing.

I then said that the value for N is 10 and asked you to give me the answer. You haven't yet done so.

So, could you please tell me whether the two animals pictures are of the same Kind, and can you tell me what the value for Y is.

 

[AV1611VET]

@AV1611VET , since you didn't actually answer this question, are these two hedgehog tenrecs of the same kind?

The genus names are Boloceroides daphneae and Boloceroides mcmurrichi.

Yes, they are of the same kind.

 

[SelfSim]

Yes, they are of the same kind.

.. only because you say so .. (and for no other reason, it would appear).