"Evolution say rape not bad"

[GrimKingGrim]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/cre...-wrong-for-josh-duggar-to-molest-his-sisters/

Eric Hovind is a true thorn in my ear and a lot of others. But I wouldn't think He'd stoop so low as to take advantage of the Josh Duggar situation and try to flip it into an anti-evolutionary agenda. Seriously how childish. I understand that Duggar's in serious hot water for his past misgivings and is being punished accordingly. He hasn't been arrested so far as I know, he just got a completely disingenuous show off the air and possibly cancelled. Great.

So what's the deal here? It's 2015 and people are still trying to push anti-evolution? That ship is sinking. More importantly can we respect the whole situation enough to not use it as a springboard for your own agenda please, Eric?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/cre...-wrong-for-josh-duggar-to-molest-his-sisters/

Eric Hovind is a true thorn in my ear and a lot of others. But I wouldn't think He'd stoop so low as to take advantage of the Josh Duggar situation and try to flip it into an anti-evolutionary agenda. Seriously how childish. I understand that Duggar's in serious hot water for his past misgivings and is being punished accordingly. He hasn't been arrested so far as I know, he just got a completely disingenuous show off the air and possibly cancelled. Great.

So what's the deal here? It's 2015 and people are still trying to push anti-evolution? That ship is sinking. More importantly can we respect the whole situation enough to not use it as a springboard for your own agenda please, Eric?

That 'ship' is like the ark. You will all be gone and it will still be floating.

And what isn't true about this statement?

“If evolution is true, then there is no absolute right and wrong,” Hovind said. “If evolution is true Josh should not have admitted his faults over a decade ago because what one evolved bag of molecules does to another bag of molecules just doesn’t really matter. If evolution is true there is no ultimate Judge on the bench who will hold every man, woman, and child responsible for their actions. And if evolution is true you will not give an account for every idle word you speak.”

 

[Paradoxum]

And what isn't true about this statement?

“If evolution is true, then there is no absolute right and wrong,”

I don't see what evolution has to do with the existence of absolute morality.

Hovind said. “If evolution is true Josh should not have admitted his faults over a decade ago because what one evolved bag of molecules does to another bag of molecules just doesn’t really matter.

Well humans are more than bags of molecules. We are conscious beings, with feels and a will.

If evolution is true there is no ultimate Judge on the bench who will hold every man, woman, and child responsible for their actions. And if evolution is true you will not give an account for every idle word you speak.”

Evolution doesn't mean there's no God. There are plenty of Christians who accept evolution.

Also, whether or not you're held accountable doesn't define whether something is morally wrong.

I don't see how a God makes something wrong.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well humans are more than bags of molecules.

We are according to science, even our thoughts.

 

[TerranceL]

I don't understand why anybody is surprised that a Hovind is saying something vile.

 

[Paradoxum]

We are according to science, even our thoughts.

I don't think science does say that. Science doesn't know how consciousness works. We are just made of particles, but we are a complex combination of particles with feelings and a will. So it's wrong to imply that we are no different from rocks.

Also a body is more than a bag, scientifically.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't think science does say that. Science doesn't know how consciousness works. We are just made of particles, but we are a complex combination of particles with feelings and a will. So it's wrong to imply that we are no different from rocks.

Science believes that all aspects of human life can be traced to evolution, even thoughts and emotions.

 

[The Cadet]

That 'ship' is like the ark. You will all be gone and it will still be floating.

And what isn't true about this statement?

“If evolution is true, then there is no absolute right and wrong,” Hovind said. “If evolution is true Josh should not have admitted his faults over a decade ago because what one evolved bag of molecules does to another bag of molecules just doesn’t really matter. If evolution is true there is no ultimate Judge on the bench who will hold every man, woman, and child responsible for their actions. And if evolution is true you will not give an account for every idle word you speak.”

Almost everything?

The problem with that statement is that even as bags of molecules, we clearly have our own subjective preferences. Preferences which we must empathize with in order to form a functioning society. One significant part of Hovind's assertion basically boils down to "without god there can be no morality". This is flat-out untrue. Sam Harris goes over this extensively in his book "The Moral Landscape" - regardless of how materialistic we are, there are very good reasons to take morality seriously.

Beyond that, it has nothing to do with evolution. Ask Ken Miller, an evolutionary biologist who testified against Dover in the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial and who works with the NCSE to help promote science education, what he thinks about there being an "Ultimate Judge", and chances are he'll tell you there is one and we all have to answer to him. This is because Ken is a Christian. Just like most Americans who believe in evolution are. There is no inherent contradiction between a belief in god and a belief in evolution - a belief in biblical fundamentalism and a belief in evolution, maybe, but that's not the only belief system with an "ultimate judge".

But you know what? I don't think there is an ultimate judge, and I'm still going to strive to be the best human being I can be. Because I hold to the moral standard that it is wrong to unnecessarily cause harm to others, and I realize that by doing so, I hurt myself. It doesn't take a god for my conscious to torture me over a lie I told literally 15 years ago and I would appreciate it if you cut it out, brain, this is really starting to get annoying, I apologized ages ago and it didn't even hurt anyone other than me.

 

[TerranceL]

I don't think science does say that. Science doesn't know how consciousness works. We are just made of particles, but we are a complex combination of particles with feelings and a will. So it's wrong to imply that we are no different from rocks.

Also a body is more than a bag, scientifically.

I thought, "Well the human body is covered in skin... that's KIND OF a bag" then it occurred to me that a bag that is as porus as living human skin would make a really bad bag.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Is there anything more worthless than the words of a blithering moron with a vested financial interest in remaining a blithering moron?

 

[TerranceL]

Is there anything more worthless than the words of a blithering moron with a vested financial interest in remaining a blithering moron?

The people who financially encourage him?

 

[Eudaimonist]

We are according to science, even our thoughts.

No, thoughts are an emergent phenomenon. Thoughts aren't "bag of molecules", but are something complex that those molecules have the power to do through their actions. It's not clear precisely what thoughts are, but the activities of molecules are what make thoughts happen.

Much the same thing is true of biological life. Life isn't just a bag of molecules because a bag of molecules -- even the right sort of molecules -- could easily be non-living. Life is something complex that those molecules are doing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Paradoxum]

Science believes that all aspects of human life can be traced to evolution, even thoughts and emotions.

I think I pretty much agree. That doesn't mean there's no morality though.

I thought, "Well the human body is covered in skin... that's KIND OF a bag" then it occurred to me that a bag that is as porus as living human skin would make a really bad bag.

Even if that weren't true, that would make the skin kind of a bag, rather than the whole body.

 

[Cute Tink]

“If evolution is true, then there is no absolute right and wrong,” Hovind said.

Given that there are multiple societies all over the world and they disagree, in some senses, with what is right or wrong, I'd say we have a fair indication that there is much disagreement over something I see folks saying are and "absolute" of either and no real indication that there are any absolutes.

“If evolution is true Josh should not have admitted his faults over a decade ago because what one evolved bag of molecules does to another bag of molecules just doesn’t really matter.

Evolution doesn't say whether someone "should" or "should not" do anything, so this statement is unfounded immediately.

And it clearly matters to society, which means it matters.

If evolution is true there is no ultimate Judge on the bench who will hold every man, woman, and child responsible for their actions. And if evolution is true you will not give an account for every idle word you speak.”

This idea that God = no evolution is not the accepted position of every believer. Might want to rework your phrasing there.

However, you are responsible to society for your actions.

 

[keith99]

Evolution makes no value judgments. Evolution also does not care about grammar.

 

[Cute Tink]

Evolution also does not care about grammar.

I thank you for not letting it go

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Let's see... Who would I rather have as a friend?..

This person?

“If evolution is true, then there is no absolute right and wrong,” Hovind said. “If evolution is true Josh should not have admitted his faults over a decade ago because what one evolved bag of molecules does to another bag of molecules just doesn’t really matter. If evolution is true there is no ultimate Judge on the bench who will hold every man, woman, and child responsible for their actions. And if evolution is true you will not give an account for every idle word you speak.”

Or

This person?

But you know what? I don't think there is an ultimate judge, and I'm still going to strive to be the best human being I can be. Because I hold to the moral standard that it is wrong to unnecessarily cause harm to others, and I realize that by doing so, I hurt myself. It doesn't take a god for my conscious to torture me over a lie I told literally 15 years ago and I would appreciate it if you cut it out, brain, this is really starting to get annoying, I apologized ages ago and it didn't even hurt anyone other than me.

I think I know which one I'd choose.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I think I kinda like whenever I hear a Christian basically make the argument that if there were no God, they'd pretty much rob you, kill you and sodomize your corpse. Why... There'd be no reason not to! Who could resist?!

 

[Armoured]

Science believes that all aspects of human life can be traced to evolution, even thoughts and emotions.

"Science" doesn't "believe" anything. I know science and scientists are often presented as a monolithic bloc, but please don't anthropomorphise what is, essentially, just a method.

 

[Gadarene]

I thank you for not letting it go

it's what separates us from the animals after all